Stun
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Posts posted by Stun
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Nope, unless you're Dwarven.
Huge underground complexes don't start at the surface. Workers dig and dig for whole lifetimes, THEN they lay the foundations at the bottom, and then start building levels upward.
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Why do people assume - the deeper you go the older the dungeon gets? That to me geographically makes no sense what so ever.
Unless were dealing with a subterranean race that started of X amount of floors underground (mole people) wouldn't the older stuff be at the top, with the simple, old, decrepit stuff at the top and the more modern expansions built under or more spreading out from the origin.
What?
Go ahead, build me a skyscraper. Create the top floors first, then work your way down to the ground. Build the underground parking garage levels last. Don't worry, Concrete defies gravity, and Foundations are a myth.
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I've played a moderate number of CRPGs and PnP RPGs, and in all that time, only one dungeon complex has ever really stood out to me: Watcher's Keep. It was the megadungeon added to Baldur's Gate 2 with the Throne of Bhall expansion, and it was incredible: tough fights and good loot, sure, but even Diablo has that stuff.
What made it awesome were the unique moments that the dungeon contained (the amazing Zork throwback, the hall of statues, the ghosts, the seal guardians, the laboratories, the guy in the cage, the machine of Lum the Mad, the sneaky priests that guarded it, and ... of course ... the Demogorgon). I've never experienced a dungeon like it.
If the designers can capture the feel of Watcher's Keep -- a series of amazing RPG experiences (puzzles, characters, tactics, moral choices, mystery, treasure, danger), loosely connected -- I'll be delighted.
How about you? Any amazing dungeons in your past that Endless Paths should be inspired by? Pen and paper are good, too! I'm not asking about mechanics so much as about feel.
All those things were great. But as far as dungeon levels/layouts go, Watcher's Keep was horribly designed. I pray that Obsidian doesn't take a cue from it. It was a theme circus. It didn't feel like a dungeon at all.
Here's how every level but one went:
1) Enter at the center
2) Go in a circle from room to room
3) Unlock the foozle in the center fight and fight him
4) Exit the level
Additionally, even those "good", "memorable" moments seemed slapped together, totally unrelated to both each other and the dungeon's supposed theme.
They took a famous, heavily lore-defined Artifact (Machine of Lum the Mad) and put it in a dungeon supposedly built by Helmites to house one of Helm's opponents. Say what? There's a dragon in one of the rooms of level 3 lol. A demilich in the other. Githyanki in another, and mind flayers in another. There's no explanantion for the Petrified characters in level 1, Nor the fire giants in level 2.
Basically nothing made sense. It's not hard to take a structure and fill it with every single "awesome" Idea you can think up. But that doesn't make for a good dungeon. a Good dungeon has a driving story behind it. A mystery. Something that keeps your attention from level to level. Not 100 stories, 100 themes, and 100 tiny little challenges to satisfy the ADD
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Anyway, two months after this poll comes up (lol), and I've changed my opinion. I now think it's gonna be neat having a projectile attack option that isn't from a bow/crossbow/slings, or spells. I also wish for the ability to craft/improve firearms as well.
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the thing i cant understand in this forum, is why topics pop up all the time, that ask wether we want something in the game or not, when that something is already in by dev choice since the begining
My *guess* is because there's a distinct 'talking points' difference between offering suggestions, and giving feedback.
In the case of confirmed stuff like Firearms and Cooldown mechanics for spells, what you see on this forum is the latter (Feedback to something that's been confirmed). On many other topics, though, it's the former.
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I'm not convinced that the IE games' implementation of consumables was "broken" in any way.
1) With the exception of Planescape: Torment (which, just like Skyrim, allowed heal-spamming while the game world was paused), the others did not. You were limited to one-per-round.
2) None of the IE games had 'overpowered' potions. The healing ones were just useful enough to keep you alive when you were in serious trouble. They did NOT suddenly restore you to full when you were near death, unless you were a level 1 mage with 6 hp.
3) The Non healing ones were refreshingly varied. They ranged from elemental resistance buffs, to Magical resistance buffs, to physical enhancement buffs. But again, nothing that broke game balance
The only valid argument I've seen on this thread against the IE system pertains to potion frequency. Potions were indeed too common. Soo... to fix the problem, simply make them less common. Done. No need to change the system, or get cute with pointless complexity, or whatever people here are suggesting.
PS: Witcher's system was horrid. The Toxicity bar is a cool idea, but.... having to stop and meditate before a fight in order to use a potion? Really? LOL no thanks. if such a system was in any other game but the beloved witcher, people would be condemning it as a metagaming tool.
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What if we could make Viconia good, or make Keldorn evil?
Then they would lose their abilities since Good is not allowed for Shar worshippers and Evil is not allowed for Torm worshippers. Then I would boot them from my party for being useless.
In theory perhaps, But in Throne of Bhaal you could, in fact, change Viconia's Alignment to non-evil, and she becomes more powerful as a result. (her turn undead power actually destroys undead now, instead of just charming them)
In any event, I'm not sure I agree with the notion that you should gather "alignment-compatable" companions in BG2. If you do, you'll miss out on some of the best banter exchanges in the game. The Minsc vs. Edwin banters are priceless. Mazzy vs. Edwin will leave you in stiches. Keldorn vs. Korgan banters are hilarious.
You'll miss all that stuff if you just use an "all good" or "all evil" party.
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EDIT: And as for taking 10 or 20 with this approach, I can always retry opening such locks multiple times (that's certainly a choice). Once I finally get that difficult lock open, I will really feel rewarded at the accomplishment.
Yeah, until you come to the next difficult lock, then the next one, then the one after that, and the one after that. Next thing you know, the mini-game has clubbed you to submission and you're off to check Nexus for mods to let you just bash that lock open with one hit.
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Hmm, so it's similar to taking 10 or taking 20 (or any number in between), but instead of burning time, you are burning money by using up numerous consumable items. I guess that could make sense, in an abstract sort of way.
Essentially, Yes. Which is why I like the idea. The consequence is tangeable and in-game. Rather than being laboriously real-life tedius to gameplay (ie. hey, kindly waste 10 minutes of your playtime staring at this door and trying to get it open. Fun! fun!)
I personally prefer the "interesting choice" to come at character creation and character level up, by making my character more and more skilled at particular tasks (with perhaps the option to purchase some nice non-consumable master work items to aid in those various tasks (MW lockpicks, MW disguise kit, etc). But that's just me.If I had to make a baseless guess, I'd say there *will* be highly coveted magic items to be found in this game that will, in fact, boost your lockpicking skills so that you won't be needing to haul around massive amounts of lockpicks (masterwork or otherwise) in the first place.
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I don't really understand how using 10 lockpicks helps me to pick a lock better. Does using 10 spoons help me to eat a bowl of soup better than 1 spoon would, or would the extra spoons not just get in my way and make the task harder?
I think it might be sorta like how D&D 3rd edition does it with "take 10" and "take 20" checks. Consuming 10 lockpicks merely represents the notion that you finally got the lock open after trying 10 times.
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Marginal! Marginal! Reading comprehension is key people. He said marginal. You don't use 99 lockpicks. That isn't marginal. You use 1 lockpick for a 1-5% increase. That's it. Marginal. MAR-GEEE-NAL.
No, he said you use 10 lockpicks for a 10% increase:
E.g. if you need a 75 to pick a lock but you have a 65 Lockpicking skill, you can still open the lock for a cost of 10 lockpicks.Which means if you bring 99 lockpicks with you to, say, the endless paths, it'll take only 10 such locks to use them all up.
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I don't know what the big deal is about two handed swords. What I want to know is... where are the four handed swords? Would you want to be the blacksmith to tell a Shokan warrior 'Sorry, I don't have anything in your size'? Didn't think so.
Bah... If I had 4 arms I wouldn't specialize in greatswords. I'd be dual wielding...er... Quad wielding 1 handed weapons. lol
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Did any1 ever meet a player who had flail or mace as a favorite weapon?
I've done many a BG2 playthrough with Grandmastery in Flails. Flail of the Ages, you know. Very useful weapon in that game.
And in IWD2, Mace was probably the best weapon-type to specialize in.
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If mages can use their magic to open locks/conceal themselves, there are no need for thieving skills and rogues. The same thing goes to thieving tools. If the party can buy/gain non-consumptive thieving tools, it will replace the thieving skills. It's similar to asking for allowing fighters to use powerful magic spells. In the first place, why do systems divide characters into classes/categorize skills?
Well, that's part of the reason why people have suggested "damage" as a consequence of lock bashing. KOTOR2 and NWN2 had such a system. You can bash open a locked chest, but some of its contents won't survive the blow.
Personally, though, I'm not a big fan of total class exclusivity on stuff like this. (ie. you must have a thief to open locks otherwise GTFO) The benefit of certain classes having certain skills should just be that they're the best at doing those skills, not "they're the only ones who can!"
Also, semi-off topic: Traps should be a team effort. They should be easier to detect if your rogue and your Dwarf (with his stone sense) for example, work together to look for them. And disarming traps should be easier if your Rogue and, say, your high intelligence mage are pooling their mechanical knowledge
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This is the reason I didn't sign on for the beta and that I might go dark when the meat of the info starts coming out. I really like to experience things fresh
Well, I didn't 'sign up' for the beta either. It came packaged in the tier I donated to.
But regardless, what exactly *is* the beta here? If it's an early version of the entire game then I don't see it ruining any experience. You basically get to play the game before everyone else. And if it's just a demo-like thing like most betas tend to be, then it won't be ruining too much.
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That would be pretty darn cool, actually.
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Or he casts disentigrate on the door. The door is now gone.
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On the other hand, if a mage's lightning bolt can fry multiple armored enemies to goo, then why can't it break the hinges off a door?
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Also, the "mechanic tools" analogy is faulty. Someone who isn't a master mechanic can, in fact, break master craft mechanic tools. And that's what we're discussing here.... a character with 75 lockpicking skill trying to use a tool to pick a lock that is otherwise beyond his skills to pick. Who's to say that he's not breaking that lockpick because he's using it wrong?
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If a person purchases a lockpick, even if you don't want to simulate the actual process of lockpicking and the variety of lockpicks that come in handy (multiple lockpocks because each job might require any of dozens of non-expendable lockpicks), you should have them buy one lockpick that is as durable as a dagger. There might be three types of lockpick, one enchanted, one masterwork and of course the typical lockpick. If lockpicks are icicles made out of sacred potions then I understand why they need be sacrificed for an ability bonus. Otherwise, please stop and reconsider.
So you'd prefer a skeleton key type thing. One lockpick that never breaks.
I disagree. I'd much rather have lockpicks be consumable, since if you give my character a Permanent lockpick-of-10%-assistance, I will cater my build to it, and thus not bother actually *mastering* the lock pick skill, since I won't need to. Whereas if lockpicks are consumable and can run out, then I will need to either get my lockpicking to 100, or else worry about running out of lockpicks when I'm in the middle of a dungeon.... which is as it should be if you're not going to bother being a master at picking locks.
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Huh, when I read that lockpick passage, I interpretted it as just a general example of using gear to offset a shortfall. (which IMO is a self explanatory thing and shouldn't really need a specific example) But since we're discussing it.... Is it safe to assume that another example is: if you need an 85 in stealth to successfully sneak past a pair of guards on the road, and you only have 75 stealth, you could drink a potion of sneaking and succeed? Or if you need 20 strength to lift a door bar, and you only have 18 strength, you could drink a potion of muscle enhancing +2 and succeed?
Anyway:
well then, in retrospect, we got zippo from the interview. feel better?
HA! Good Fun!
Well, perhaps "zippo" in the way of BREAKING NEWS: REVEAL!!! But an interview with the head honcho game developer can be an informative read without such "hard facts".
This interview gives us glimpses of how some of the gameplay mechanics might turn out. For example:
I think combat logs are great for understanding the mechanics in detail. Not everyone uses them, but I definitely think they have value. I also think select all is very handy. Many people like to do a fast marquee select, but a select all button is nice as well. The object highlighter feels almost like a requirement to me. I've never seen the fun in pixel hunting, especially when you're often dealing with something that the characters could likely see very easily. This doesn't preclude the existence of "secret" containers or doors, though, since those can be turned off by default^what have we got here? We've got a guy who's making Project Eternity, and he sees stuff like Combat logs, full party select, and the Highlight button as useful, if not vital game mechanics. So there's a really good chance that PE will have all three. Personally, this is the kind of information that puts my mind at ease. And IMO it's more valuable to me than if Josh had come online and said: "hey, let me tell you all about NPC #11. [insert biography here]." (or whatever you might have hoped was in this interview).
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Sex scenes with a 2-4 cm tall characters?
Indeed. I've lost count of the number of people who *still* think we're dealing with a 3d, cinematic type game.
I would say that the devs probably need to straighten out this confusion, but what more can they do that they already haven't done?
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-The gem quest (and that whole Jackal area) in IWD Trials of the Luremaster was memorable for me.
-I also liked the Trial in NWN2.
-Bonderai Reloads- BG2: TOB
-Infiltrating the Bandit Camp in BG1
-The Atherium Wars Quest in Skyrim: Dawnguard
-I'm trying to think of an actual quest in PS:T that stands out, but nothing's coming to mind. PS:T's quests weren't what made that game great. The conversations were. That said, the meeting with Ravel in her maze was probably the single greatest 5-10 minutes of gaming I've ever experienced.
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Planescape:Torment was about a man who cannot die, a game focused on the story with combat thrown in as an afterthought.
You asked if it had permanent death.
As a matter of fact it did but it was rare; very few things in the realms could harm TNO. There were also several ways to permanently rid yourself of your companions.
So... lets recap
Essentially Immortal protagonist? Check.
Companions that can't be gibbed/chunked? Check.
Protagonist could raise his companions from the dead almost at will? Check.
Combat was Ridiculously easy anyway (almost an afterthought by design)? Check.
So far, we've got: Not-hard, and difficulty-wise, not a whole lot different than your standard RPG of today.
Icewind Dale didn't have a "no resting except at campsites" system - but it did have an optional difficulty that was very challenging and the game was designed to be beatable - if difficult - using realistic P&P style resting cycles.
And this stands in Stark contrast with today's games, which 1) Also Let you rest anywhere; and 2) Also Have "nightmare" and "master" difficulty settings. Right? Right! We're batting 1000, so far.
Yes, healing in Baldur's Gate was rare. The only potions were Cure Light Wounds potions which were next-to-useless in any battle that matters.
Perhaps in the first game. Of course you and your party members in the first game also don't have that much health to begin with. In the first half of the game your average party member will have ~20-50 hit points, So the 20 or so cure light wounds you had did indeed help out a great deal (you don't take much damage in BG1's early game. And in the second half of the game your cleric and druid will have cure serious wounds. Your mage will have Vampiric touch, and even your Paladin and Bhaalspawn protagonist will be able to cast cure spells.... and that's in addition to potions.
So lets add that all up now. 1) Potions. 2) Cleric spells, 3) Druid Spells 3) Main character Bhaalspawn abilities. Also 4) temples and 5) rest anywhere.
But of course, this particular aspect of the discussion *ends* when we bring up BG2. In BG2 and Throne of Bhaal we've got:
1) FULL Heal and Mass heal spells cast By Druids, and Clerics, and Items
2) Enough Potions of extra healing to fill up multiple potion bags
3) Regeneration Items. Enough to equip your entire party with.
4) Polymorph spells and Items which can be used to heal its caster/user
5) Rods of ressurection - which can be used on living party members to fully heal them... instantly
6) Greater Restoration -- which has a casting time of 1, and completely heals the WHOLE PARTY instantly
Rare my ass.
Incidentally, two of these games featured D&D-style permanent death that you could not Resurrect from if characters took too much damage.
Well, except for BG2, where normal mode does not have unressurectable perma-death.
But this is all beside the point. The OP wasn't really complaining about most of this. He was more talking about the artificial, contrived stuff like draconic resting limitations, and save-game manipulation.
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Ingenious "dungeon" locations/terrains
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted · Edited by Stun
Ugh.... You've just described Icewind Dale 2's Fell Wood, only instead of portals they had.... er... I don't remember what they had. Knowedge of how to get deeper into the wood, I think. Followed by defeating some ghostlights in order to leave or some such.
Anyway, How about... a crevice in the ground that the party falls into, then has to explore its way out of, and when they finally do, they find themselves in another part of the world.