CrazyPea

Why should every game have romances? Does every film or book have romances? would film like The Treasure of Sierra Madre get any better if we would add romances into it? What about 2001: A Space Odyssey (both book and film), and what about The Thing by John Carpenter? Would it make games like Ultima 4-7 any better if companions of Avatar would be romanceable? Would it add anything to the story of Ultima 5 which is about oppression, moral absolutes and corruption of men (and women)? or Ultima 6 which is about racist prejudices and co-existance, and consequences of what you have done in the previous games? Does your whole life revolve around romantic relationships? if not, why should it in games? There are so many potential stories what are possible in Project Eternity without including romances. Did you read the lines: I'm not saying every relationshi[ in the game has to be romantic. What I am saying is that relationships drive the narrative and that romantic relationships have can drive the the narrative too. You mentioned 3 movies in your post - for those three, I gave you thousands that do include romantic relationships and are better for it - everything from Casablanca, the 39 steps (hitch**** original), to The Empire strikes back (... well,,, apart from the whole brother/sister kiss - ewww), The dark Knight (the dilema of bats chosing between his love and Harvey dent). I could list many more...

No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. This would be assuming the companions were incapable of being bisexual. Personally, even though I am pretty much straight I would rather there be gay and lesbian romances than none at all, including ones that cater to my specific wants and needs. As long as they were well written, which again, should be a non issue. The argument then becomes, are they worth it in the sense of the playerbase appreciating it, which, again, I believe they would for the most part and if they didn't then they could ignore it. We've already discussed bi as well, its all been one long heated exchange over what people want. Bricks have been thrown and babies sacrificed to dark gods, assassinations in the dead of night and last minute castrations, its all been done, sorry you missed it. I've been around for at least a bit of that. I don't see how a companion who is open to advances of either sex make it so, 'half the companions are romancable'. At the end of the day, I think they will do what is best for the game according to them. But if there's even a 0.00001% chance that even an microscopic amount of their decision making would be garnered from all of the romance threads I want it to be known that there are people that enjoy and support such options. Honestly, if there weren't people posting so vehemently about their opposition to it then it probably wouldn't of even popped up in my head. You have hit the nail on head - that's exactly how I feel.

No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. This would be assuming the companions were incapable of being bisexual. Personally, even though I am pretty much straight I would rather there be gay and lesbian romances than none at all, including ones that cater to my specific wants and needs. As long as they were well written, which again, should be a non issue. The argument then becomes, are they worth it in the sense of the playerbase appreciating it, which, again, I believe they would for the most part and if they didn't then they could ignore it. We've already discussed bi as well, its all been one long heated exchange over what people want. Bricks have been thrown and babies sacrificed to dark gods, assassinations in the dead of night and last minute castrations, its all been done, sorry you missed it. IT IS a highy emotive subject. And to be honest I'm hoping that Obsidian don't listen to anything posted in these threads. But, I'm afraid, that like many other games companies in the past, they will. And if the only people to speak out are those who are against such things, they will get a skewed idea of what people want.

No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. It has been implied, several times in this thread. As for prejudice, I refer you to post #525: It hasn't been implied from what I have seen and that post was satirical response to another joke post, it also included pedophillia, necrophillia and the perception of biowarian romance. Lets not have this escalate beyond what it is, that leads to flaming, trolling and me throttling someone on top of a pile of dead naked people regretting the night before. I have to disagree with you there, and as for the quote, said satically or not, it is extremely offensive, ugly and encouraging of prejudice, even if it isn't meant to be.

No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. It has been implied, several times in this thread. As for prejudice, I refer you to post #525:

Relationships are at the heart of the human psyche and all fiction, including narrative driven rpgs, deal with the subject on one level or another - Even (and Especially) Planescape: Torment. This doesn't take resources/writing way from the rest of the game, because, from the narrative point of view, it IS the game. Now, not every relationship needs to be romantic, but romances are a type of relationship. And since a huge chunk of our psyche is devoted to attracting a suitable mate, it can be a powerful emotive draw; If it's handled well, a romance can keep the reader, viewer or (dare I say it) gamer on the edge of their seats. If this wasn't the case, Romeo and Juliet would had vanished into obscurity long ago. From a dramatic point of view, romances are a gold mine for creating obstacles, challenges and rationales for characters - Everything that a good (or even great) role-playing game would seek to create. Or are the vocal people on this board simply interested in the grinding of leveling and combat? In which case, why play a narrative driven rpg in the first place? As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced.

Yay!

(Dark) Elven Rogue or a Godlike Cipher

Personally, I like romances in a game - as long as they are not as heavy-handed as the Bioware ones. A well written romance can and does enhance a game considerably, and I don't think the whole sex scene thing is necessary. My single caveat though, is that both hetro and homosexual relationships SHOULD be catered for - fair is fair, after all.

... or will you be able to contine to explore? I loves to go back to unfinished quests and look for the bits that I missed. Will that be possible in P:E? Or will I have to start a fresh game once the main quest line is complete? Does anyone else think you should be able to explore the world once the main quest line is finished?

I like a mix: Some of the XP coming combat/diplomacy and some of it coming from objectives/quests completed. NWN2 had it right, for me.

Magpies are know for stealing shiny things. Besides Crows, blackbirds, Ravens, Rooks have been done to death - look at the cover for DS3!!!! Ah I see, makes sense. I just got bird pwnnnned it's better than bird sh*t

Magpies are know for stealing shiny things. Besides Crows, blackbirds, Ravens, Rooks have been done to death - look at the cover for DS3!!!!

I understand where you are coming from, but several of the kickstarter tiers have a pet included with them - type to be decided by popular consent. With that in mind, i thought a different pet for each character class was appropriate - given the enhancements promised for raising 4 million (inc. Paypal). Does anyone know how we get our VIP forum badges BTW?

Hi All, As one of the enhancements for hitting the 4 million stretch goal, how about a different kind of pet for each different class? This would be fantastic if the base pet was a bird, for example: Class Type of Bird Wizard Owl Necromancer Raven/blackbird Cipher Parrot Rogue Magpie Fighter Falcon Paladin Eagle Priest Dove Druid Thrush Chanter Nightingale What do you think?

Congratulations. Thank you very much I had hopes (and enthusiasm) of turning our ideas here into a mod if we couldn't get the attention of the powers-that-be, but the sheer weight of cynicism and negativitiy is driving me away from this place -no doubt to the collective joy and relief of the naysayers. It is a sad fact of life that so many obviously intelligent people would rather be dismissive and cynical rather than do some thing positive and productive with their lives. I find such an attitude of lofty disdain surprising, especially in those who profess to love the setting so much. It's a shame really, but that's fine with me. I am taking another posters advice, I am off to do some reading and research on the PLANESCAPE setting, then I'll do something positive with it. Those of you who are interested working on such a project, find my NWN2 mod and contact me on the email address in the readme file. To those cynics who get their kicks by feeling smugly superior to others, all that I can say is that I pity you and I hope that one day you will grow up, but I fear you never will. Thank you and goodbye. CP

I never said I haven't read ANY of the source material just not much of it - I am currently reading Fire and Dust, an unpublished PLANESCAPE novel. But I take your point and am suitably humbled. What us ignorant berks lose in knowledge, however, we make up for in enthusiasm and sometimes not knowing all there is to know allows for ideas unsullied by preconceptions and prejudgements, allowing for a fresh approach. It is also another good reason for you to join in and lend a hand - it keeps the rest of us on the straight and narrow. I don't profess to be a great writer nor do I profess that my knowledge is great. What I do profess to is that I love what I have experienced of the setting and that I am determined that it it shouldn't be forgotten or die an ignoble death.

Again I can only thank you for the links - they are extremely helpful The interior of the portail isn't vital, but don't forget this isn't just a story, it is design concept for a game (albeit virtual or possibly just a mod) as well. it serves the purpose of an extra level to explore and hack and slash through for those that are that way inclined

Thank you for the link, it is very interesting. I did in indeed know the reason why Sigil was called the cage - however, I took that idea straight from PLANESCAPE TORMENT itself - Ravel refers to Sigil being the Lady Of Pain's Cage and Ravel was mazed for trying to free her from it (in her mind). - So what if Sigil really was a cage? And the definition you quoted above was applied long after the orignal was forgotten? As for the doors closing in PnP material I wasn't aware of it, my main source knowledge comes from the game. As for being disrespectful to the source material I fail to see how - I didnt mean netherspace to be a seperate plane just the interior of the portal stretched and distorted by the energy wave thats closing the portals down.

Thank you. At least you took the time to be constructive in your criticism which I more than welcome. Yes, I agree the the characters have been done before in one form or another - of that there can be little doubt. In some cases, however, that's the point - they are archetypes that people can identify with. The mentor figure exists in most fantasy literaiture for example - Jolee, Gandalf, Merlin, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Belgarath the Sorceror etc, etc - it's all the same character and they serve the same purpose in the plot. The angel and the devil are the two voices (often seen cartoons) that sit on each shoulder - again Archetypes. I do disagree with you though about those 2 characters being redundant once there identities have been revealed, however, there is so much more a character than their uses in the plot - personality counts, as of course does their use in the mchanical side of the game. As for Pandb, I do disagree on the use of humour and homage in a video games - look at Morte, would he have been such a sucessful character with out the humour? The skull gimmick wore off very quickly.

Okay my first suggestions for a plot were universally hated and rightly so, they weren't particularly original or any good for that matter. Fair enough So howabout this as an idea? Before anyone jumps on my back, I do not make any claims at being a brilliant writer (though my last NWN2 module has been moderately successful and has been published in the German magazine PC Games). Constructive criticism is welcome, constructive being the word to take note of... Part One Sigil, the City of Doors, The Cage; the gateway to the multiverse, is the trouble. The doors are closing and the Lady of Pain is nowhere to be seen. You are a member of the Godsmen Faction and like your brethren, you have been charged with finding the solution to the problem. Your first quest, however, is to find one of the few remaining open portals before the city becomes cut off completely. The portal that you find it is unlike all of other portals in the city; rather than closing it has been wedged open and strange energy waves are pouring forth. Stepping through the portal is unlike no other experience you have ever had. Portal travel is usually quick and slightly disorientating, but here you feel like you are being ripped apart. You find yourself in a netherspace created by the opposing forces of the mysterious energy waves and the portal itself. Somehow you must navigate your way through this strange dimension. On the other side you find yourself in the City of Brass. After various adventures, you find yourself in the palace of an Efreet prince. In one of the room in the palace there is the laboratory of the court Astrologer and Sage, Al

yes agree with the above formula sadly, but there is also another one: Not trying = nothing achieved whatsoever

okay, I've thought of a few NPCs (I know your supposed work on think like plot first, but as I say this mostly for the fun of doing it). These are just thumbnails - and not set in stone - simply quick ideas just to get the old noggin working: Ravashta: A male Deva trapped in the form on a homunculus. The homunculus takes the form of a winged Imp and found in a wizard

granted that criticizing doesn't mean you have to do any better, but being being negative with out being constructive is pointless. As to whether I am a good/bad/indifferent writer, I'll let you be the judge. Here is my work

Like I say, hopefully by the time we've finished we can show the pwoers-that-be that a new PLANESCAPE game is not only do-able but desirable to the mases. If we cant achive that we can go one or two ways with it: the PNP campaign you mentioned or a NWN2 mod - but at least we have something. Go on give optimism a try, you'll be surprised by what we can achieve when we work together.