lord of flies

Strong, centrally planned economy? Redistribution of the political system so that power resides with the broad masses? Complete removal of the investor as a social class?

I know that, jesus. Eric Blair was a pretty prominent British socialist. In American class rooms, however, the moral of 1984 and Animal Farm are taught as being "Socialism is bad," even though it isn't. "Maybe the farmer wasn't so bad" is often taught to be the moral of Animal Farm.

Whoa, what a bunch of random garbage. Can't defend capitalism so you have to resort to some random accomplishments people living under it made? The Soviets were the first to space. Dead Hand is vastly more moral than the nuclear football. Et cetera. Why is the world's largest economy and largest military spender by far most capable of projecting force? A question for the mother****ing ages. Also, see how the United States strikes against Israeli aggression on the Palestinian people? Truly, a most moral nation. [citation needed]

This ruling regards for-profit corporations, don't change the subject.

Corporations aren't "organizations" of "like minded individuals." They're mechanistic, economic entities which exist to enrich the rich and serve their interests. A political organization and a corporation are two wildly different things.

Its economy is fine, better than China's per capita. Ever read 1984 or Animal Farm? What's the moral of those books.

Functional bureaucracy is not the same as dictatorship, comrade. Again, does the bus or train system require a dictatorship? People can own their own houses in socialist economies. In the Soviet Union, you could own a house as long as you didn't rent it out or otherwise use it to acquire capital. Personal property and private property in the socialist economy are very different thing. Actually, the idea of "private ownership" in the sense that the West currently uses it (that you can own large tracts of lands, structures, raw liquid capital, etc) is pretty much completely new and not historically relevant at all. Then I guess we're different people.

Positive change can be made in every country, not just one. Imagine for a moment, a world where every country is communist except for, say, a Batista-run Cuba and a military junta in Korea. You still love capitalism, for some godforsaken reason. Would "If you love capitalism so much, move to Cuba" be a valid response?

Does a planned highly controlled military require a dictatorial degree of control? Does a planned highly controlled police force require a dictatorial degree of control? Does a planned highly controlled mass transit system require a dictatorial degree of control? The proper functioning of a state system requires control, but don't use such loaded words as "dictatorial" just because you love a tiny minority dominating your economic system. All order relies on implied force, and all implied force relies on actual force. Believe what you like, but the capitalist society I live in is hardly bloodless and unstained. How, exactly, can private capital be "fundamental to human behavior," when for most of human history we did not even have currency?

No, I'm Krezack, remember? I don't even know who you're talking about. Where do I do this, exactly? When people make blatantly incorrect statements about socialism, I correct them, but that's not "arguing semantics," it's dealing with misconceptions about the way a socialist society is intended to work.

If we can just shrug off good 'n proper stuff with a handwave like this Obviously expats aren't going to give you a open and fair explanation of their home country. Their perspective is going to be wildly one-sided, otherwise they would never have left. Great, now a personal attack. Mods?

I have come to be a revolutionary socialist with a belief in a planned economy because of my careful consideration of economics and the world around me. I was not born to socialists, I entered it by my own will. It is not blind acceptance, but considered and rational. Just because my views are "radical" does not mean they are "blind."

Relevant to this topic:

I'm curious how long I will have to keep telling the same 3 people that basic fact about socialism before it is internalized. Think of it as a scientific experiment. Never posted on either.

Since I keep having to remind you all of basic, fundamental precepts of socialism, such as the fact that everybody is not supposed to be totally equal, I guess so!

Stop butting in on this. What have you done to deserve this? I kept this forum alive for weeks at a time on my socialism alone. You didn't do crap.

Not every socialist country is the USSR! Amazing! Yes, the Soviet Union survived for 80 years by rewarding inept behavior. They picked all the morons and fired all the talented people. How was their economy able to last 80 years? Magic. And then, when people work there, you take money from them, by not paying them the full value of their labor. Amazing! I believe in an open dictatorship by the general populace, not by the rich and powerful. Nearly half the United States Senate are officially millionaires. Now, I know the Senate ain't exactly democratic, but are about half the states really tiny and full of rich people? No. This isn't how socialism works. I don't know why I have to keep saying this. You should be compensated in proportion to your labor. Work harder, longer or better, get paid more. That simple. A) No, it isn't (both Khruschev and Brezhnev were born in villages and employed as metalworkers in their youth; Gorbachev was born in a peasant family and operated combines before attending Moscow State University), and B) no they aren't. Screw up once, your paycheck still comes in. 1984 is not exactly a realistic representation of the Soviet Union, comrade. The Terror was a brief excess (1936-1953, esp. 1936), not the status quo of its entire rule. Death in the gulags was pretty low, except during the Great Patriotic War for obvious reasons. Never trust expats about their old country.

Depends on what your definition of "successful" is. Cuba has the 51st HDI rating, putting it above (for example) Mexico, Brazil, Albania, Turkey, Russia and China, its HDI is the 8th highest in the Americas (5th in North America, 3rd in the Caribbean). It's GDP per capita (PPP) is 107th, and is greater than (for example) China, the Ukraine and Indonesia. Edit: And that's with the embargo.

If anybody else bought this game, could you help me out? I can't figure out how to beat the first mission on Very Easy. I can't seem to get people less afraid of the government or to view the government as illegitimate (more than there are right now). I keep pulling rallies with my superchick leader, but it doesn't seem to have much of an effect.

ACTUALLY, even if we assume that socialism would result in me being thrown into a work camp (it wouldn't), it would probably be in Alaska. A-duh. Maybe, maybe not. It's by no means certain or automatic. I agree. Why should I get to be rich just because my daddy was? No, it grants wealth because it allows you to buy "property" and then pay people some fraction of the actual worth of their labor because you own that "property," so obviously you deserve money just for owning something. Do you really believe in an open dictatorship by the wealthy? Saying it doesn't make it so. Not every rich person was born poor! Crazy, I know! And what if, by some luck of the draw, their decisions aren't successful? They're not rewarded. Because they're being paid for others. You have no comprehension of how economics works, otherwise you wouldn't say something as mind-numbingly dumb as this. So, what, "nothing" was "achieved" in the Soviet Union?

No, I mean that if a farmer milks a cow, should you, as a non-farmer, come in and take some of his milk without paying for it (or any similar exchange)?

Do you believe in equality of opportunity? Do you believe that no one should profit off another's hard work? If you answered yes, welcome to the Socialist Party. In the capitalist system, people do not have the same opportunities. It is possible, sure, for someone to rise from a low position to a high one, or for the opposite to occur, but it is not normal. A person born in a high position is likely to stay in the same place, as is a person born in a low position. This has nothing to do with any inherent quality or characteristic. One person just has the advantage of raw capital, which is key to acquiring wealth and (with it) power. And how does raw capital grant wealth and power? By stealing wealth from others. The capitalists and investors profit not from their own work, but from the labor of others. To be sure, the actions of critically analyzing and selecting projects which are good against those that are bad is certainly labor - it takes time and energy - but capitalists and investors are not compensated for this work. They are not paid in proportion to their labor, but in proportion to the labors of others. This is how their wealth grows, by feeding on the labor of others, not by their own work.

So, what, if I don't agree with every decision or belief of the Soviet Union, I'm "shockingly ignorant"? I wonder what that makes you... mind-numbingly ignorant, maybe?

This is a troll, right? You can't honestly believe that the threat of exiles is that large, can you? Do you think that enough people in Russia would leave their home country to debilitate Russia's economy? Honestly? For its entire existence (maybe in the beginning with the RCW/recovery)?

Put the Arabic version of L'Internationale in the Saudi Arabia levels.