Marcus

Even though I have played the game a hundred times, I could never get Bao-Dur to open up after Telos. I usually run with Handmaiden, Mira, and Kreia.

There actual number is 96.

I vote for the abandonment of this thread until something tangible is posted. Publicly, I believe its hard to tell what is considered progress and what is considered back stepping. I don't think progress is measured by stacking up more bugs. I call that counter productive. "Yes, we fixed a bug! No, twelve more have shown up." I don't think this mod will be stable in any form. If you take into consideration that there are thousands of fans, there is no way for an amateur team of modders to get every possible bug fixed. It shows. Since they haven't stepped into a digital media classroom, I'm willing to bet there are things missing in the whole process. Its impossible to find other errors, which they don't even know are there. They don't have the knowledge or understanding to know the unseen. Even though they may be able to get alot fixed, they will never see the core issues that will pop up.

It is more than likely better to walk than keep them circulating. I am going to follow your example and start stepping. Its time for me to walk away. Team-Gizka is not worth the wait and aggrivation. The Restoration project will never be released. Better things to do. Chow!

Before we stretch this subject thin, I want to make one thing clear. You can check magazine articles and online articles, and you will not find a single comment by Lucas Arts about The Sith Lord's condition. Your first comment is an opinion. Obsidian mentioned the Lucas Art's change in time, they (Obsidian) fully admit it was their fault in agreeing with it. Your second comment is also an opinion. Since you didn't work on the game itself, you cannot comment on what happened behind close doors. We do not have enough information to support or rebuttle your comment. Also, how do you know if those files were accidently left behind, or if they were intentionally left behind. You can not prove a darn thing. What can Team-Gizka do? Here is a question in return. What should they have done? Four years of a massive online campaign to promote this mod, and they expect people to roll over to the tune of WHEN ITS DONE!. After all these years of people looking forward to this mod, Team-Gizka, knowing people were waiting, took almost a year's hiatus. People strolled into the forums here looking for some transparency, and then they get told to stop whynning? After all these years of people waiting, they now owe us for the continued criticism and support. Its no longer a mod where nothing is on the line. This project rests on their reputation, and if they will deliver on a publicaly made promise. Stop criticism? Tough.

[quote name='H

Um... I'm following the mod with enthusiasm too... but "only" 4 years? You realize the released game was created in half that time right? 1/4th the time. It only took 12 months to create "The Sith Lords". Its taking Team-Gizka four times as long to make a mod, and they are still going for another year.

After I posted a response to Windu's comments, I went back and thoguht about Team-Gizka's project. Since I do have a level of modding experience, I can understand the difficulties in creating such a project. Team-Gizka took upon itself a massive task, which could have been done within a year's time. Four years after the announcement was made, we are still here talking about bugs in which were not fixed years ago. Or, we are talking about newer bugs breaking older bugs. You do not have to be a scientists to see how backwards their process has become. Team-Gizka has bitten off more than they can chew. It is obvious in their lacking ability to perminatly fix all of the bugs. They seem to be creating more problems than they can handle. 1,000+ bugs were found and created by Team-Gizka's edits alone. Obsidian is a professional company, and I will take their word for it over an ameture group. Downloading this mod is nuts. Team-Gizka's mod will break The Sith Lords.

We should take your word because... You have a computer science degree, several years experience in the field, and you helped in the creation of The Sith Lords? I can throw stones like you as well. [sorry for the double post. Can't edit my top post for some reason.]

We can walk this road if you want. Your assumption flaw: 1. Did you work on this game? 2. If you did work on this game, can you tell us for 100% certainty that all of those bugs were in TSL before the restoration project started? 3. Did anyone from Team-Gizka work on The Sith Lords with Obsidian? 4. Can anyone from Team-Gizka 100% prove that Obsidian created all 1,069 issues? 5. Are there any experienced degreed developers among you who have rock solid proof Obsidian is to blame for every single one of the 1,069 bugs? I want to hear some solid proof. You put it on the table, so where is your proof? Thats why I dismissed your answer.

If you look at my post, you will notice I made a similar statement. There is a domino effect going on. Some of your current bugs were fixed months or years ago, and then your saying the new fixes broke them again. Lets get into a serious conversation here. I'm not going to defend my previous posts due to the fact I was a jerk. I'm going to present to you some supportive criticism. If I'm folllowing the bug fixes correctly, and your own words, fixes created one day are making bugs to fix another day. Several newer fixes made to the game are also rebreaking older bug fixes. In several cases there are fixes that are making even more bugs. Do you see how this sounds? Your fighting an endless cycle of fix and break, which may be due to an unfixable core problem. Its called "Wack-a-Ball". You guys can end up working on this mod for a whole decade. Inorder to fix all these bugs definitively, you would have to break into the core files. Its not Team-Gizka's fault for the domino effect, but this does make another point that others see. Team-Gizka's plan and stretegy for fixing this game is flawed. Everyone supports the team in their own special way, but we are seeing massive older bug issues caused by newer fixes. Its hindering Team-Gizka's ability to reach a conclusion. These things don't happen. Its called bad assessment, planning, and execution. You guys keep saying 'tracking 1069 bugs' is a good thing. Its not anywhere close to a good thing. If your fixes are causing an excessive amount of bugs, this shows that Team-Gizka bit off more than they could chew. They needed another plan years ago, and no one stood up to take charge. Your so called teamleader also takes off in mid production, and he has no one else around to stand in for him. He is not thinking or acting like a leader. No one is driving the boat, and it has lead to bad choices. Every manager has an assitant. Someone who can keep the boat rowing when the manager is not around. Team-Gizka is fighting two problems at once, and its getting their supporters ticked off. Some are even leaving.

I agree with you. From my personal perspective, I don't think this mod is worth downloading. Since their alterations caused so many bugs, I have to question the end product's stability. Even though they are working on putting out fires, I think this group is fighting a series of unfixable software issues. If you go in and fix one issue and others pop up from the fix, you have to stop and throw in the towel. I give them great credit for trying to carry onward. Somewhere inside the game's main core are obsticles, which keep causing a series of road blocks. They should have kept things simple. Use simple and quick solutions prevents 'major' problems. Confronting the game's problems at this level is too ambitious. That is way too many bugs (Tracking 1069 known issues). Way too many. I swear they are creating a completely new IP. If you are confronting another 60 bugs now, four years after starting, you need to throw in the towel. Four out of the five 'major' bugs should have been fixed years ago. Those bugs should have been first year's problems, which the team should have solved long ago.

90% of those bugs were from the original TSL, that Gizka fixes. Are you finally willing to admit TSL was rushed out of the door and therefore "Broken"? Nope. They didn't rebuild the Droid Planet along with the Droid Factory... . What proof do you have that definitively says Obsidian was responsible for creating those bugs? I want hard facts.

Tracking 1049 known issues is a good thing? Nope. Thats a bad thing. Anything that causes 1049 bugs, fixed or not fixed, to the original piece of software is a bad thing. Team-Gizka rewrote a mess of scripts from bottom to top. This mod literally changes over 60% of the game. That is in no way a good thing. Even after the mod actually hits 0% on the bug counter, there is a high risk of game crashes, unseen bug issues, and other protential risks from installing this mod. I have seen a few myself. Another issue people have not thought about is: One of the greatest risks from passing along a mess of game files online are viruses. You can be the nicest person alive, have everything in place for scanning, and you can still pass along a computer virus. You can get a virus from the original modder's computer, get it from a server where the mod is uploaded, or you can get it from another modder attatched to the team.

Team-Gizka.org progress report (2:25 EST on Dec 03, 2008):