Wrath of Dagon

So what you're saying if the nazis had won, I'd be a nazi. Well how come I wasn't a communist when the communists won? There's such a thing as objective good and evil. What does that even mean? The nazis could've won, the Cuban missile crisis could've easily turned into a nuclear exchange, etc. What happened happened because it happened, we don't have anything to compare it to. Saying that it was meant to happen that way is meaningless. We can compare it to what could've happened, it's not like it's hard to picture.

What does that even mean? I'm not sure. If we are making the argument that God directs our history, then I'm not sure how the collapse of the Roman Empire would fit into that flowing statement. Sure, the church survived, but it took hundreds of years to re-establish itself. The Roman empire was extremely evil.

Some of one, none of two, majority of three. IMO. You really think you're that much in control of your own life, in spite of the myriad of external factors you have no control over? In that case being an atheist is a rational position. What does that even mean? The nazis could've won, the Cuban missile crisis could've easily turned into a nuclear exchange, etc.

I'd like to put that idea to a practical test.

Not so, in an atheist world, the scientific rules and laws still apply - I doubt most Christians would use God to explain gravity. Dismissing God simply means that there is no overall deity, but that doesn't mean that the system is random or chaotic. Interestingly though - and for arguments sake, how would the presence of a deity, be an assurance that the world isn't completely random? (especially seeing as a deity is the only thing that radically and inexplicitly change reality) The laws apply, but things should happen randomly within those laws. The mere presence of a deity wouldn't be an assurance of anything, it could be a god of chaos, but we see history is generally flowing in the right way, how to explain that? Does everyone's personal life seem to happen at random, or does there seem to be some kind of scheme at work, or are you yourself responsible for everything that happens to you?

Ah yes, the one party state idea. THAT'LL END WELL. It's not a one party state. Do conservative countries (heh, there aren't any) never have parties because they all agree on everything? What about liberal countries? Any time you have elections, you'll get at least 2 parties.

No it won't, it'll crash and burn, bad analogy.

Is that the Red Wizard academy?

Atheism implies world is completely random, think about that.

We don't need to break up, we just need the red superstate/ blue superstate idea I've proposed before.

What is it that makes atheists so insecure about themselves that they have the constant need to attack the beliefs of others to feel superior?

I'm OK with the bailout, I'm not OK with political corruption. So far we haven't found a solution to it though. And wow, you don't want to go through what the Soviets went through with the collapse. You white bread Western ninnies would never be able to handle it.

I didn't call them fundamentalists, I called them Islamo-nazis. They consider themselves fundamentalists, and that's what the media frequently likes to call them, to avoid "terrorist" or an equally accurate term.

I don't think anyone said that, not that I want to debate the Koran here.

I'm not arguing about Stockholm, I've never been there, I asked a question if you look at my first reply about it. The picture you posted looks like mostly multi-story buildings though. Shocking, shocking news! There's backscratching in American politics? Surely this means capitalism is pure evil, EVIL I tells you!!! And $360 billion to City? The whole bailout to everyone was $700 billion, of which $200 billion was either not needed or already paid back. The point is bailout worked and we didn't go into depression or worse, which would've happened if they allowed Citi and other banks to collapse. In fact they probably could've prevented a lot of what did happen if they stepped in and saved Lehman. True, they did commit trillions in guarantees, but that would only come into play if the financial system collapsed, which it didn't, and the credit has to go to Bernanke, Bush, Obama and people who work for them, even with all the missteps and the usual political corruption.

Congratulations, you're the one nut to rule them all! I haven't been to every city in the world, but I've been to Rome, Paris, St Petersburg, Vienna, Madrid, Naples, Seville, and none of them look like that. They predominantly all have large, multi-story buildings. Admittedly I haven't seen much of their suburbs, so I suppose it could depend on where you draw the line between the city and the suburbs.

Yeah, the Christian fundamentalists are killing children in other ways instead. These are not Christian fundamentalists, this is a loony religious cult. Not every Christian you hate automatically becomes a "Christian fundmentalist". A Christian fundamentalist is someone who insists on a fairly literal interpretation of the Bible. So far as I know there's nothing in the Bible about refusing medical treatment, that's a sign of being a nutcase (shared by the non-Christian Chinese Fulan-gon btw), not a sign of fundamentalism.

You do realize that American cities normally consist of the central section, the downtown, with skyscrapers, which are mostly offices, and then the rest of the city is extremely spread out being mostly single family houses? It's true some cities don't exactly follow that pattern, like New York City and San Francisco. @Wals : Thank heaven when a US President steps in and tries to restrain the bureaucrats. In contrast, Obama's EPA had declared CO2 harmful to human health, and is now ready to take over every aspect of American life by executive fiat, not even waiting for Congressional authorization. In spite of this, I'm quite sanguine, as first those morons couldn't find their own ass even if you put a sign on it, and second the government relies on the consent of the governed, and if pushed enough we'll start to push back. Obama really needs to think long and hard about what happened to Gray Davis in California.

I'm not against stimulus when it makes sense. The problem with Obama's stimulus is it's way too big and most of the spending takes place over the next few years instead of this year, while the recovery has already started. All it's going to do is take money out of the private economy and thus make it worse, not better. In addition to that, huge budget deficits are projected for at least the next decade, which could lead to a true economic catastorphe if left unchecked. The article isn't about that. Read it. It is about blatant corporatism, which should be your greatest consern with him. All I need to read is this to know the author is a left-wing nutter and not worth paying attention to. You're sure you're talking about Stockholm and not the North Pole?

There were also stories from Iraq of Al Qaeda putting children into cars wired with explosives to fool guards who wouldn't suspect a family driving a car bomb. And of course Iranians would put plastic keys to heaven on their children and send them to set off minefields. There's no level below which these Islamo-nazis won't stoop, calling them animals is an insult to all animals. It's too bad some people need to be reminded of this over and over.

So we're supposed to dislike him for not being enough of a commie? Actually I think he handled the economic crisis pretty well, at least we didn't go into a depression. I didn't like the stimulus though, and if he continues spending like a drunken sailor we'll have an even bigger crisis down the road.

You got something up your ass? And how does that link show I'm incorrect?

Now who's racist? Could be cultural, not necessarily racial or ethnic. WTF? Stockholm is anything but compact. You could wonder if the person in question has even been there himself. Stockholm is very thinly spread out with almost no tall buildings, especially central Stockholm. This has been the central issue for local politics for decades, it's strange to see someone claim the opposite. Although it is true that Sweden is, compared to the US, a more urban country the cities in question does not have very large population per unit of area. So Stockholm is mostly single family houses? Not the impression I got from Project Gotham Racing 2.

Deal. At least your right wingers have somewhere to move to.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30458.html Some stuff we've been discussing here recently.