Redfield

I agree that a doomsday scenario for either of those studios is pretty unlikely right now. However, I would say of the two, BioWare is in a more tenuous position than Bethesda is. If BioWare delivers one or two flops, EA could easily decide that their "RPG devision" isn't worth it, and close them. For Bethesda to go **** up, it would require them to seriously bork a couple of ES or Fallout titles (which seems unlikely--mainstream totally eats their stuff up). On topic, though: I can't get excited over Rage. This is probably because I view id software in the same light as I view Square Enix--they haven't made anything decent since the 90s. id totally lives off of an old legacy, IMO.

If someone as big as Bethesda tanked enough to close its doors, it would be a very bad thing. As much as people like to think that the RPG genre would be better off without the likes of Bethesda or BioWare, they are the ones that keep the genre afloat for the most part. If one of them went down, the fallout would spread to other studios as publishers would be even more hesitant than they are now to invest in an RPG.

what kind of bass-ackwards comment is this? your sentiment is endearing in a cutesy "let's all be friends, lol!" sort of way, but it's philosophically and logically mistaken. there is only one proper "vision" for Fallout: the original vision. BIS created Fallout. anything else...let me repeat...ANYTHING else is simply an interpretation of this "vision"-proper. as Mikael said, Bethesda did not get Fallout. their interpretation was misdirected and wrong. Wow. There's nothing wrong with what Bos_hybrid said. You need to stop taking this stuff so damn seriously.

Hey, to each his own I found Dark Messiah to be extremely disappointing, and I had been anticipating it before its release. The combat was much more repetetive than I had expected, and the story was cookie cutter and bland. The previews leading up to release made it sound much more 'rpg' than it actually ended up being--just a first-person hack n' slasher. I've never played Arx Fatalis, so Dark Messiah is the only game I have to judge Arkane Studios by. I wasn't impressed

Waiting until September won't be bad. When it comes out, you should have just enough time to get some good gaming out of Divinity 2 before Risen hits on October 2nd, followed by AP, then DA:O... Starting in September, things are looking pretty good rpg-wise in my estimation.

There are fans of BioWare in this thread? Could've fooled me Seriously, some of the Bio-butthurt I read on here makes me do a double-take to make sure I'm not at the Codex.

Serves you right for expecting a thought out response Seriously though, you enjoyed Fallout 3 and thought it was a good game, and that's all that really matters. And for the record, a crapload of other people share your opinion as well. There are people on here that would *love* to make you believe otherwise through their condescending remarks, but for all their damnation of Bethesda and the game, they won't be changing your mind about Fallout 3 any more than you'll change theirs.

this works both ways, you know. i could say "well, console gamers tend to be easily amused. thus any game that looks shiny is automatically awesome!" (point being, this is strawmanning. nothing more.) Yes, PC gamers could say that, and they do--CONSTANTLY. The strawman defense is pretty much the M.O. of PC gamers when talking of consoles. Sure, occasionally you'll see somone throw out a PC elitist jab here and there, but its usually in defense against a strawman remark made against console gaming, which is much more prevalent (see cute terms such as "EXBAWX", "console kiddies" "console tards", etc.)

If Alpha Protocol comes out any later than summer, then there is a chance it will be competing with Dragon Age: Origins. The last thing AP needs is to be drowned out and forgotten due to another high-profile game.

Gameplay footage is looking pretty friggin' awesome. Although I gotta admit--that lockpicking minigame looks like a copy-paste right outta Oblivion

Actually, it's: "Jenny is pretty. It's my opinion, but if you don't see it, you're wrong." -WoD

Because all of your faults are based ENTIRELY on what you believe an RPG to be. You're bound to disagree with anyone who responds to your ME complaints because their point of view regarding RPGs is bound to be different than yours. Maybe the whole point behind Patrick's challenge was a little to subtle for you?

Yes, so what? As I stated earlier, you're pissing into the wind. It's been made pretty clear by those working on Alpha Protocol (at least Patrick) that you're viewpoint on Mass Effect isn't shared with them. Therefore, what are you really trying to prove?

Can you honestly not see that this is your opinion? There's a massive number of people who would beg to differ that Mass Effect is a "badly designed RPG". Most importantly, if Obsidian doens't share your opinion of Mass Effect, you're just pissing into the wind anyhow. Of course it's my opinion, what else would it be? What amazes me is that people don't see something so obvious. Irony at it's finest. The difference here, is that you're the one touting your opinion as something the developers should listen to. Read how you phrased your above quote. When you state that you're trying to get the developers to "see why ME is a badly designed game", you're effectively trying to force your opinion onto them.

If we're not supposed to answer it, why'd he offer free stuff? Because he's fairly confident that no one is going to meet all of his criteria? While his offer may be completely valid, he'll come up with a way to invalidate any stab at the challenge. He IS trying to prove a point, after all.

To everyone replying to Patrick's challenge: You're missing the point. The whole point is that no one is going to be able to come up with an answer that includes the first list of games and excludes the second. Everyone has a different definition of what defines an RPG at it's core. There is no "right" answer.

And by that same token, just because someone says a game is not an RPG, doesn't mean it isn't.

Can you honestly not see that this is your opinion? There's a massive number of people who would beg to differ that Mass Effect is a "badly designed RPG". Most importantly, if Obsidian doens't share your opinion of Mass Effect, you're just pissing into the wind anyhow.

Well, I came off a bit snotty in my one-sentence reply to you. I apologize for that--but still.... Similar to Mass Effect or not--Alpha Protocol is going to be what it's going to be. No sense getting worked up about it. Your opinion that Mass Effect "completely fails as an RPG" is fine and all, but it has absolutely no bearing Alpha Protocol. Just because you've taken the opinion of a few journalists that "AP looks similar to ME" to mean that both games must share all of the boons/flaws of the other, doesn't mean that it's true. Honestly, from your posting here and on the BioWare forums, you seem to be the type that is quick to nod in agreement with a developer if it's an idea that you approve of, but when something you don't like rears its ugly head, you jump in with both feet, whining with the rest, mistakenly believing that it will do any good at all.

I think AP being compared to ME could be both a good thing and a bad thing. It could be a good thing because Mass Effect was a good game, a huuuge number of people have played it, and it's no small bet that quite a few of those ME fans wouldn't hesitate to play another RPG that appeared similar gameplay-wise. It could be a bad thing, however, because being compared to Mass Effect also doesn't help Obsidian in distancing themselves from BioWare. Also, Dagon: Quit being so butthurt over Mass Effect.

I agree that there seems to be differences--but keep in mind that none of us have actually *seen* the game in motion. However, those who are comparing it to Mass Effect *have* seen it in action, so maybe it's not as different as we on the forums would like to believe.

In my opinion, Obsidian really has no way to escape being typecast as a BioWare-copier. It's been the entirety of their history so far, even back when they were Black Isle, making games based off of the Infinity Engine. I think it would have really helped if, for their first original IP, they would have chosen something that didn't have so many gameplay similarities to Mass Effect, because that certianly won't help them differentiate themselves from BioWare--which is what they really need to do.

Strange, I thought I clicked on a thread titled "Dragon Age". Must've clicked on a Witcher thread by mistake.

Meh, I'd much rather see some gameplay footage than a cinematic trailer produced by a third party.