bronzepoem

I have said moral system isn's a good stuff for RPG in another thread. Without it, to make game design more easily and NPC behavior more credible, we could use reputation system instead. It could be disparted into good reputation, bad reputation, smart reputation, stupid reputation, stereotyped reputation, chick bagging reputation. In such system, if you act like a playboy, it will influence young women most obvious. If you act like a saint, hippies will disdain you. All of this depend on designer like. But, the most important thing is that: A secret behavior won

Oh,it seems you guys are not interesting in the topic, I'm really sad as a melon.

I have to add some words to make my opinion clearly. The most heroism adventure is CHANGING WORLD BY OUR OWN MIND, not doing things designers want us to do.

Yes, I agree with you guys. But there are some difference between "saving the world" and "changing the world as personal idea". For example, push the world into a worse hell. You see, in gothic you begin as a humble prisoner. But at last, you own your life. Maybe this sentence could deliver my opinion better: In the bottom of heart, everyone want to be the owner of their life.

As we know, RPG is like novel, movie and TV serial in some perspectives. Which unique feature of RPG is Role-playing. It means players could join the game world themself, could become one character of the game story. Players could take part in the story, they could change the story and create a unique story themself. That's the quintessence of role-playing game. When we play a RPG, we could feel that: it's me, it's me who travel and adventure in the new world, not Hamlet, Jon Snow or someone else. That's the greatest fun of RPG. Today, the apporch to give players role-playing feel is CHOICE. As we know we can't create a new plot in the game limited by PC technology. So smart game designers set several behavior choices when we need to behavior. Also, they need to design corresponding concequences. If several choice option lead to same concequence, the choice is false. The C&C is a common sense in RPG design. Next, let's discuss about moral system in RPG. Moral is an important part of role-playing. I have read an article writed by a Chinese hardcore RPG player. It's a very long article. A main question is what can be used to judge people's moral, motivation or consequences? Generally speaking，Law is the external regulation to formula people's behavior. Moral is an intrinsic regulation to formula people's ideology. So motion is a better criterion to judge people's moral. But as a game designer, you can't see players' thinking. Sometimes they choose to help an old woman for compassion. Sometimes they do this just for the desire to 10 experience points. So it's silly to set a visual moral point. It will make RPG become a mathematics game. Players know themself much clearly. They do not need the game tell them that they are good guys or bad guys. In fact game designers are the players in the same game too. They are playing the roles of all the NPCs in the game. So do not become a moral justicer to judge players. The best way is just giving players enough concequences and to do a good job of acting NPCs. let players know what will happen after their behavior. Let them judge the moral points in their heart themselves. But the concequences shouldn't be too directly. If the concequences are just golds, weapons or experience points, player won't take enough thinking when they choose. It could influence NPCs' behavior and attitude, or influence the the story line, even will change a city's furture or the total result of the game. In fallout 2, if we ask the child who steal our car, we can get information and get back the car as well. But the child will be killed by hooligans. Second day we only could see a blotch of blood beside road.It won't lead to any direact lose to players. But it give us a great moral convulsion. For this I crashed into gas station and gave every hooligan one cassette of bullets. This is a talent design and a good concequence. Also when we play fallout, even a very littile behavior could change the world. When we know a condom will change the furture of Den,when we know the detail of repairing nuclear power plant will change the furture of Lizards town, the choice become most funny thing in RPG. After finish the game, there are 39 different ending waiting for us. We will answer for all the behavior we have done.This is the best and most compellent moral judgement. In the other hand, in the bottom of heart everyone want to bacome a VIP in their life. Everyone want to change the world as their idea. The most heroism adventure is CHANGING WORLD. Regrettably we couldn't see such great design after fallout 2. There are some precious RPG heritage shouldn't be forgotten. Maybe we could have a new amazing adventure and change world in AP again. Best wish.

changing world is a great romantic and heroism ideal of RPG player. Maybe It's necessary to set a new topic about this.

Game is game. We don't have a second choice in real life. If in game we can't have it in game, it will be too cruel~

Good point~ So there will be an interesting question:" What do you most want to do without legislative, judicial and political leashes?"

No....don't abondon us....don't abondon APPPPPPPPPPP Sign~Maybe Feargus need to employ some beauty designers to make Obsidian more attractive God bless Obsidian Question 1: Please introduce the Martin and Andy, what did they work before? Question 2: Sad as a melon???Melon???

"I have yet to break any bone in my body, but our co-workers Martin and Andy have left in search of other jobs, so I can safely say my heart has been broken." 2008.4.10 I'm curious who is Martin and andy. Are they designers of AP? Did the Blog means they will leave Obsidian?Oh, Obsidian need enough genius to make AP perfect. Bad news.

The crates thread is just a silly joke. It refers to a thread I made on the Interplay forums (from memory) where I demanded that the Fallout 3 have a secret crate level. It blossomed into numerous valid and convincing posts regarding the pros and cons of crate-based game-play, and whether or not barrels should be given legitimate rights as crates. Quickly the crate-worship spread to the other threads. I recall making the thread a total of 7 times before the moderator (possibly Fionavar) got fed up and let it stay. They were rather gracious, because I was totally expecting a ban. Anyway, I made such a thread again when these Obsidian boards were created 4 years ago. It spurred some fascinating discussion, but was eventually deleted (I believe by myself when I was drunk - this was in the days when you could delete your own posts). Then when Aliens was announced, thepixiesrock and myself made crate threads. I point you to some here: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=47272 http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=47044 http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=48122 http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=48534 Then when AP was announced, thepixiesrock again beat me to the first crate thread, much to my chagrin: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=49198 And again the usual offshoot threads about ninjas and monkeys. It's a meme that's easy to get into without any history lessons because all you need is a love of crates. A hatred will work too, because it gives me somebody to argue with. So I guess you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I like crates?" Well, do ya, punk? It's really a awesome history lesson. I think it's much easilier for me to eat a crate compare with finish reading all the thread~But the anwser is easy at all. I like all the crates filled by Carsomyr or Pale Justice

Yes, walk or not walk into a wrong house is a choice. Such choices is basic. Of course home invasion will cause guards' attack. It's the same in fallout and PST. In Fallout and PST there are more choices in depth which can influence NPCs' behavior and attitude, or influence the the story line, even will change a city's furture or the total result of the game. Your personality and behaviour patterns will change the game world and you may will answer for some of those changes. Time for bed- -

I think C&C just mean Command and Conquer before, funny Different player personality>>>>choose different dialogue>>>>different concequences Best example is PST and Witcher do a good job,too. I hear Bloodlines and Arcanum are good at this system but O haven't played them. Fallout is a great game with C&C, but in Fallout we choose different quest solutions instead of dialogues. The concequences in Fallout is more abundant and compellent.

Thank you very much~ I haven't played Bloodlines so the offcial patch is enough for me. The bug is one reason I didn't play it. The language obstacle is biggest problem. Only those very famous games will be translate into Chinese. Unfortunately Bloodlines haven't. In fact it's very hard for me to read you guys' thread A dictionary is beside me now. To completely understand your words will spend very long time. Such as the topic " First! Will there be crates? ", I totally can't understand what are you talking about~~To write the topic "Unarmed combat" spend me 1 hours..... So I will start a English learning plan, Bloodlines will be first teaching material.

If there are few dialogue, we won't have enough option to show our different personality. It's a part of gameplay I think. Of course, if diferent dialogue lead to same result. The dialogue tree will be nonsense.

I remember there was one quest in Oblivion which player should pretend a punter to inquiry some killers who pretend to prostitutes. When I follow the get in the house and be inviting to go to bed, the only dialogue I can choose is "go to hell !". God, the quest designer should be cursed. I'm sure Obsidian designers will give me the choice to throw away my armor and jump into bed. Yes, Oblivion is closed off in depth. But I don't think it's the false of freedom. Why we feel alone and get tired in Oblivion? It's not because the world is too big or too open, but because we can't find a wonderful quest or an memorable NPC in the world. We know that there won't be any amazing adventure waiting for us in the world. So we do not have exploring desire even the world is big and open. In my opinion, big and open is good feature but not enough. Only a big, open and abundant world is a best world. It's true open world could support believable feeling. A big world could accommodate more content. So why refuse them? non-linearity/open-endedness world design will be a certain trend in future. It just like the changing from 2D TO 3D. A smart 2D design can do much greater than a bourgeois 3D design. But we can't see any 2D game today. We can't deny that the Gamebro engine which Oblivion useing is the best engine for RPG today. Bethesda spend 2 years on it. As we know Oblivion sold 5 million copies in global market. I can say 90% sales owe to the outstanding Gamebro engine. Bethesda use it to create a very potential world. But Bethesda don't have world class writers to fill the world with outstanding content. Another shortcoming of Oblivion is players don't have the right to make choice in the game. Don't like novel, The biggest predominance of RPG is player could join the story and make their own choices. If we can't chose our own way, the game is just a novel with graphic. That's why I prefer non-linearity RPG. In a non-linearity game we could have more choices. A good engine is a must for a great game. Fallout have a wonderful engine designed by smart Tim Cain, we could using equipments and skills everywhere. Also Baldur's gate won't be so successful without infinity engine. Obsidian could write the best RPG content. What they last need is an outstanding engine.

Yes, PST is a completely linear boxed-in game in today view. But the amazing world and so many funny NPCs give us enough exploring feeling. So we completely forgot it's a boxed-in game. Now we could ask the question:

Hi,Sawyer~Please give us some new information about AP. We are thirst for it.

Why level based? It could be reputation based, force based, faction based, passport based and gender based(W.C.) Level based is so rigid and Obsidian won't give us a linear game. As I know, there is no the concept of "level" in AP.

Yes, in fact this is what I want to deliver in my first choice~ A free world means I can do waht we want to do. If you want open the door or drive that car, you can jst do it in the game. Also 'if you can see it, you can get to it' is one aspect of this concept. Maybe it's not the most important feature of a RPG. But it make the game world much more honest. I believe it will be a common feature in furture RPGs.

Where can I download the fan-made patches? Which patch is best today for Bloodlines. I want to try the game althrough the language obstacle is terrible.

God. it's really a awesome post. I learned many professional RPG words from you .Thanks. But I think Baldur's gate 2 is an "awesome RPG for tactical combat" ~ There were many exciting battles such as red dargon, Shangalar team and the Demi-lich. PST and Fallout have similar number optional solutions for quests. But PST's solutions are always by dialogue way. In Fallout we could solute a quest by dialogue depending on speech. Also we could solute them by gun, by bomb, by medicine, by steal,by repair,by some kind of trap. The kind of way is more complex than PST. Bloodlines is an awesome game but bugs destroy it, too. Now we can see what's a perfect RPG: - big world to explore, non-linear exploration - large number of interesting and novel quests, multiple solutions - complex dialogue, multiple meaningful choices in dialogue - very complex, non-linear main plot, complex back-story and complex atmosphere - deep, interesting, useful NPCs - little bugs Come on, tell us all of these will be the features of AP. Are there some designers looking at this topic?

1. Elder scroll and Fallout have this feature. Also Baldur gate 1 have a amazing world. 2. Fallout is the peak of this. 3."What can change the nature of man?" 4.Arcanum have been destroyed by it... I vote 1, because AP doesn't have a fantasy background. If there won't be a good global travelling feeling in AP, the game world won't have enough attraction to many players. What's your opinions~

Taiwan. So we could see betelnut girls beside road~They are really hot Maybe this is some kind of stereotypes but I love the stereotypes.

Yes!Great! THis is 007's job! I will pray Obsidian have a large enough team on AP.