DaKatarn

Okay it's your feelings and temper. I accept the fantasy of an universe and that doesn't make the issues less sensitive. It is not necessary that it is realistic to feel involved. In GoT White Walkers are pure fantasy and however the fear is real. We cannot be down to earth with a solid fantasy story, it's a nonsense IMO. Well, I do find the white walkers laughable in GoT, at least how they are presented in the tv series. Yes the fear is real for the fantasy we live in while reading the books or watching the series but when you close the book or switch the tv off you forget about it because its fantasy. You only care about characters and all and if the situation is not realistic enough (that means you cannot reflect it in real world) you don't even care about them either. That's why I don't like that kind of dark stuff in rpgs with character development and choices. But I do like it as the atmosphere of a setting that focuses just on that. Dark Souls for example. Or even Ghouls and Ghosts! They just aim for the mood so darkness in there works just fine. That all apart, as I said in a prior comment, Eora, as a world, is not dark. It's just typical fantasy with some interesting twists and real world history in it. Pillars 1 might have been somewhat dark but that shouldn't mean every game in the setting must be like that. And we shouldn't expect or even demand such a thing. Maybe next time they make a game in Eora that has to do only with you being in a sanitarium in Defiance Bay or just hunting sea monsters. Tone will differ, but the setting will be the same. It's the key of our debate. The choice of atmosphere in PoE1 together with art design and metaphysic backstory are main markers of the game's identity. It was deliberate choices and so it's why I expected a dark fantasy universe and the same ton in Deadfire. With many various of course, it's pirate theme after all but with this dark identity and ghoulish backstories. I remain hopefull that isn't like Hawaii hollidays anyway.

I am envisioning someone in a trenchcoat with spiky hair hunched over a laptop that they can't really see the screen of because they refuse to take off their sunglasses. And pocket chains. So many pocket chains. Even if Act 1 was the darker in the POE1' story, many sides quests in all the game (including The White March) are mature, dramatic and gloomy. Do you have forgotten the niece of an elfish noble in Dyrwood or the accidental death of the fisher'sister in Stalwart? There is a global identity during the game. I admits that your vision concerning my lifestyle is very funny but I have hipster beard and faded cut, trenchcoat is too rough and old fashioned for me... Okay you kill me for the sunglasses, Ray- ban are my guilty pleasures but no dark glasses. It's only for Charles Bronson and I respect that.

I understand your point of view but it's your feelings and temper. I accept the fantasy of an universe and that doesn't make the issues less sensitive. It's not necessary that it's realistic to feel involved. In GoT, White Walkers are pure fantasy and however the fear is real. We cannot be down to earth with a solid fantasy story, it's a nonsense IMO. It's this balance between fantasy dilemna and real's human reactions which is the spice of any imaginary universe (SciFi or Medieval-fantasy).

No idea what your were playing but D:OS 2 is much more seroius and much darker than Pillars of Eternity. In D:OS 2 the magisters turn people into killing machines and the first isalnd is a concentartion camp. As say higher a "dark theme" isn't enough. What about "concentration camp" and "killing machines" if the character and art design are cartoon or if a malicious cat tells you a good old joke?

I'm agree with you, there is no automated link here. The style and quality of writting are essential but it's a problem of shape, not bottom. If the theme is too light, it's harder to make dramatic choices. And make hard choice is the adult way.

I'm the opposite. I don't enjoy dark, gloomy themes. I'm not looking for it to be a knee-slapping comedy either. If I want dark and gloomy, I'd just go read some old-school existential novel ... and be bored senseless. It’s your point of view. I don’t love this easy humor in everything in « Modern » pop-culture like Marvel. This « ****-off » spirit as argument of modernity. Serious theme is seen as boring... It’s an infantilizing effect « it’s too dark for me, I’m a crying baby. I wanna just lol and don’t care about anything». Dark and serious themes are deeper, CRPG isn’t Fortnite and the easy entertainment isn’t the main goal. There is SO MANY superficial, fun and light games actually even in the RPG category. So Pillars of Eternity was an exception and it was welcome. DaKatarn, I'm hardly a kid. And I wouldn't have agreed with you even before the first Marvel movie had been released. Entertainment should be about fun, not oppressively depressing. I don't give a flying bleep about "dark and serious themes" in entertainment. Never have and never will. And I don't think that it had damn all to do with modern culture or modernity. It's about making entertainment fun and enjoyable! People have been making movies fun and enjoyable, rather than dark and gloomy, for a long time. This is nothing new. Was the original Star Wars dark and gloomy? Were any of the Back to the Future movies dark and gloomy? No, those movies were fun and entertaining! Movie makers with a lick of sense know that people are much more interested in paying to watch good, fun, escapist entertainment than dark and gloomy bore fests. People want to be entertained and have fun while escaping from their reality. So what if it's "superficial"? There's not a chance in hell that I'd ever take an RPG seriously as a serious work of art, like some super serious "novel". Of course, I don't give a flying fig about them either. Even when I read books (which I do quite often, BTW), I am again reading for enjoyment, not to read some super-serious, pretentious crap. When I was in high school (all those decades ago), the English teacher could make me read that crap. Today, there's not a chance in hell that I'd pay one thin dime for it, let alone read it. I think that we don't speak about the same thing. I'm not saying "dark gothic or emo dark teen theme"= automated fun or a good story. What I mean by "entertainment" is the immersion, the feelings and heavy choices. It's the more stimulating in CRPG with the system of fight and theorybuild IMO. I find deep story and "serious theme" terrifically stimulating and in CRPG it's the deep of the world, the psychological situation of companions and the cornelian dilemma wich are the heart of the game. We feel more involved in this case and it's the main goal of any story. It's why a RPG more funny in art design or theme is less immersive for me because the situations are mechanically lighter, less cornelian, so superficial and go at least. I don't care about a high fantasy fairy tale without any dramatic intensity. Tragedy and trauma are powerfull markers and in PoE1 many side quest had a deep and hard backstory like the sacrifice for the machine or the noble of Dryford searching his niece...I like too the possibility of made bad or cruel choices. In a way it's like the difficulty debate for fighting, "more the challenge is big, bigger is the satisfaction" (No pain no Gain effect). For the story is the same, "more the choice is cornelian and hard, bigger is the impact". I don't say that a heavy atmosphere is necessary to be hung by a story but it's a good way to be involved. I can have fun with a good adventure story too but my love for Pillars' universe was made by the dramatic, mature and gloomy atmosphere. It was a main part of the first game's identity and it was a success.

Bug

My man, the atmosphere is totally different. Poe 2 to Poe 1 is like comparing Diablo 1 to Diablo 3 in terms of mood. Xcom 1994 to Xcom 2. Deadfire is more like "Adventure theme" a la Indiana jones. Deadfire is pretty cool and very different from Dyrwood but in all honesty i like Poe1 theme more. Raedric hold, Durgan Battery, Concelhaut keep, all classic dark medieval fashion stuff. Deadfire is too shiny for me but i understand that it fits the Pirate\Caribbean theme. The only Poe1 stuff i found in Deadfire are the dungeons, those are pretty dark and cool. The slaves dungeon, altought small, feels like from Diablo 1. I really hope they return to Dyrwood in Pillars 3 Ty for your feedback, your argument about Diablo 1 and Diablo 3 is efficient.. A gothic ambience for the 1 and a cartoon wow-like with many jokes for the 3. What is the cause? Millenials’ weakness? I’m agree with you, I hope a back in European Medieval Theme for the 3. Maybe in the Adryan Empire. IMO Baldur’s gate 2 was better for exotic atmosphere without distorting the Medieval fantasy theme.

I'm the opposite. I don't enjoy dark, gloomy themes. I'm not looking for it to be a knee-slapping comedy either. If I want dark and gloomy, I'd just go read some old-school existential novel ... and be bored senseless. It’s your point of view. I don’t love this easy humor in everything in « Modern » pop-culture like Marvel. This « ****-off » spirit as argument of modernity. Serious theme is seen as boring... It’s an infantilizing effect « it’s too dark for me, I’m a crying baby. I wanna just lol and don’t care about anything». Dark and serious themes are deeper, CRPG isn’t Fortnite and the easy entertainement isn’t the main goal. There is SO MANY superficial, fun and light games actually even in the RPG category. So Pillars of Eternity was an exception and it was welcome.

Depressive is a little rude IMO, it's just realistic without any pity and no high-fantasy. Maybe I'm mad but my first reflex with Deadfire was to configure colors for colder tints and less "shiny". With no-spoiler of course, side quest still "gloomy background" at least? Familly tragedy, murder, sex content or torment?

If you are looking for a dark, gloomy, apocalyptical atmosphere then Deadfire does not have that as much as the first PoE. The atmosphere of Deadfire is definitely less "dense" and more light-hearted. This is also reflected in the dialogue options and companion dialogues etc. - I had to pay attention to not snort coffee out of my nose a few times, e.g. (no spoiler really) when one of the gods held this looooong kind of philosophical speech that almost had you rolling your eyes because of the heavy-handedness and then the first dialogue option was simply "Bull****." So, compared to the first game it is much lighter IMHO and the threat is not really as present at all. So, I think my keyboard is waterproof anyway. If it's not too often, it will be okay. I hope the DLC will be more "dense" and gothic.

I'm not a suicidal emo ^^ But I'm afraid that the theme pirates erase the soul of the Pillars' universe (not any play of word inside). And the answers of this thread confirm my fears :/. A touch of humor is welcomed especially if it corresponds to the personality of a character BUT humor for humor because is so cool and nothing has importance is a bad way for me. The world of Eora isn't a Marvel movie...

Hi everyone, I paused my run on Deadfire after the Intro because I'm perfectionnist and hardcore gamer. So I'm waiting for fix, new contents and new difficulty for a perfect first run. But what's your feeling about atmosphere? Personnaly I like dark fantasy, adult theme, mystical and gloomy medieval ambience. PoE1 is really cool in this way. Divinity Original Sin II was a pain in the ass for me with no serious and intensity. Is this spirit still the same in Deadfire and what's your feeling about this "pirate road trip"? Too "fun"? Too "shiny and too distant from the first PoE?"

Ty for all about your amazing game but don't add too much "lol content" like drunken pose", I like so much the dark, adult and gloomy atmosphère in PoE1. IMO Deadfire is a too much too soft in this way.

The "I suffered more than you" mentality will never end. They disabled BoB and added achievmenet? "Why is there no 'Solo only' achievement?!?!" They added solo achievement? "HAha you play op class" The player decide to play the class considered to be weakest? "Haha I killed this at level 1" It's a single-player game and we are all on the same level playing field. People need to stop sitting on the backseat developer chair and just play the game. If it becomes too easy for them then go ahead and strip all the equipment, just don't demand everyone to follow. It is an unfounded accusation IMO or a sort of complex of susceptibility. Nobody will force you to be a hardcore RPG gamer. We want just difficulty for...difficulty Levels. You can live without the hardcore achievement unlocked I think. Not nothing more nothing less, it is a just and justifiable position. Seems like an accurate accusation to me. There is a group of people demanding/suggesting the removal of a game feature because they feel the game is too easy. Thing is that thing they want removed is optional, so there is no need to remove it. All that does it make that groups play style mandatory (even if only in a certain case) for another group. Why remove the option? Because one group thinks their way of playing is better or can't be bothered to control which options they select? My post are answer concerning the difficulty debate in the page 1, nothing about the Berath trouble as I say. IMO Berath is optional and not a problem just for hardcore achievement maybe. But Deadfire is too easy, it’s not a feeling but an objective conclusion.

Bug

Wizard is a pit of Wizard is a pit of arcanic knowledge, 2 spell by level is a shame and it's just a spam fight after fight. Boring and brainless for me. A good possibility will be to custom grimoires. For the moment it's a real lack of liberty and a real nerf of gameplay. Wizard is a versatile swiss knife, an apparently weak swisslife.

I think it's a good idea, IMO this is three fix for Wizards: 1/ One more spell slot by level. 2/ If wizard monoclass, two more spell by level. 3/ Grimoire's customisation with the possibility to do our own compilation of spell. One grimoire for Cc, one grimoire for dps, etc... And not a frozen grimoire without any liberty of choice.( Maybe in a special merchant)

PotD being too easy atm has absolutely nothing to do with BoB though. BoB is optional. PotD being undertuned isn't. Aiming the pitchfork at BoB in an attempt to bandage fix PotD isn't the right direction. I'm agree with you on this point, I was off because behind this topic we can see the philosophical choices for difficulty as source of debate.

The "I suffered more than you" mentality will never end. They disabled BoB and added achievmenet? "Why is there no 'Solo only' achievement?!?!" They added solo achievement? "HAha you play op class" The player decide to play the class considered to be weakest? "Haha I killed this at level 1" It's a single-player game and we are all on the same level playing field. People need to stop sitting on the backseat developer chair and just play the game. If it becomes too easy for them then go ahead and strip all the equipment, just don't demand everyone to follow. It is an unfounded accusation IMO or a sort of complex of susceptibility. Nobody will force you to be a hardcore RPG gamer. We want just difficulty for...difficulty Levels. You can live without the hardcore achievement unlocked I think. Not nothing more nothing less, it is a just and justifiable position.

"i kinda wish people stop turning every PvE game into some kind of self-gimp hard mode epeen contest." This is the problem right here, the extreme ignorance of those that either can't handle harder difficulties or just don't like to be challenged. Here is why i play harder difficulties and it's not to try stretch my epeen: "It doesn't seem like a very important thing and some may see it as just for a few wannabe hardcore players, but the reason why i play the hardest difficulty is it brings out the mechanics best in a game and makes the progression that much more rewarding. You need to know how to play a game properly and use all of its mechanics - on easier difficulties there's no point in even having half the mechanics in a game, thereby dumbing it down. You never want to dumb down gameplay in a game, or have that as the only option. Which is why i believe higher difficulties are the pinnacle of a game and the reason why balancing the harder difficultys imo is one of the most important things there is." Or you know, you can go through and faceroll on normal and not need half the mechanics (especially in an awesome tactical pause-based RPG combat system, with tons of variety and depth) dumbing the game down into nothing more than an interactive novel. Gl with that, just don't persecute me for wanting more... There's a reason why it's an optional bonus. Hard core players don't get persecuted for making their own life harder. They get persecuted when they keep pushing their own definition of hard on everyone else by being a louder minority. No one likes to hear it when someone go "Good job BUTTttTTTttt I did it better!" And a reward for difficulty must be a real reward for a minimum of pain, if it's an automatic formality it's just an egalitarian joke. If Veteran or POTD are too difficult, stay in Normal and you are not made for more and the ultimate reward. It's not a shame, it's why many levels of difficulty are here.

"i kinda wish people stop turning every PvE game into some kind of self-gimp hard mode epeen contest." This is the problem right here, the extreme ignorance of those that either can't handle harder difficulties or just don't like to be challenged. Here is why i play harder difficulties and it's not to try stretch my epeen: "It doesn't seem like a very important thing and some may see it as just for a few wannabe hardcore players, but the reason why i play the hardest difficulty is it brings out the mechanics best in a game and makes the progression that much more rewarding. You need to know how to play a game properly and use all of its mechanics - on easier difficulties there's no point in even having half the mechanics in a game, thereby dumbing it down. You never want to dumb down gameplay in a game, or have that as the only option. Which is why i believe higher difficulties are the pinnacle of a game and the reason why balancing the harder difficultys imo is one of the most important things there is." Or you know, you can go through and faceroll on normal and not need half the mechanics (especially in an awesome tactical pause-based RPG combat system, with tons of variety and depth) dumbing the game down into nothing more than an interactive novel. Gl with that, just don't persecute me for wanting more... I'm totally agree with you, Potd ( and Veteran too IMO) are the way for used ALL aspects of the deep mechanics and tactics of the game ( crafting, spell, bonus rest, theorycraft, building levelling, team synergy and roleplay choice). If this levels of difficulty can be completed without this skills and level of comprehension it's a shame and a real trouble. If this mechanics are in the game it's not for nothing... Playing a CRPG without challenging and without pain is good for easy or normal, not for more.

I think special achievements can be the solution. I didn't see difficulty achievement moreover. In an other hand, Blessing of Berath options for more challenging game is very stimulant too. For this moment, Deadfire is a sweet walk in the park even in "POTD" but Normal and Veteran are also too easy.

I always play a wizard in CRPG, it’s my favorite class and I’m very disapointed by this restrictions. It’s like DD4 system and it’s failing. We cannot used spell like a non-magic capacity. Using a switch grimoire system with unique spell is maybe a good idea but WE MUST BE ABBLE TO CHOOSE AND CUSTOMIZE SPELLS in a vaste collection. The main wizard’s trait is to be a Polyvalent Swiss Knife. Seriously can you imagin a powerfull archmagus or a lich with only the knowledge for two spells by level? It’s not roleplay ans not a good mechanic.

I’m agree, this choice of spell mechanic is the real MISTAKE of this game. It’s a game-crushing for gameplay and for roleplay immersion. Wizard’s main trait is to be POLYVALENT with a pool of varied spells and the possibility to custom his choice. It’s like DD4 and it is a fail.