Riftworm

I see personal attacks aren't beneath you either. The problem is, since it's mostly all subjective there aren't any lies. Only points you disagree with. I never at one moment writing that thought to myself "hmm I should lie here". Rather it was a stream of consciousness in comparative connections with NWN1 and NWN2 thus far including my personal experience and those around me with the original over a five year span. In that regards I'm more qualified to speak in general terms for those I played with online, and you only for yourself since admittedly you don't play online. That's great you disagree, but liar I am not. I genuinely feel all of these 50 points are what make NWN1 better than NWN2. It's his personal opinion that you're a liar. You may disagree with his opinion, but he genuinely feels that you're a liar. Agree to disagree! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can't be is my point. 98% of my points are subjective (though inclusive of many of the complaints seen at bioware that I agree with) the other few points were things many see as bugs or faulty design that I also agree with. So Gorth is either nuts, or tarded..or both, or just a slanderer. In any case it isn't possible that I could lie in a list of subjective opinion where there is no right or wrong, only opinions.

I see personal attacks aren't beneath you either. The problem is, since it's mostly all subjective there aren't any lies. Only points you disagree with. I never at one moment writing that thought to myself "hmm I should lie here". Rather it was a stream of consciousness in comparative connections with NWN1 and NWN2 thus far including my personal experience and those around me with the original over a five year span. In that regards I'm more qualified to speak in general terms for those I played with online, and you only for yourself since admittedly you don't play online. That's great you disagree, but liar I am not. I genuinely feel all of these 50 points are what make NWN1 better than NWN2. This isn't Bioware. Volourns Wowy journy is at page 36 now.

quote=Gorth,Nov 24 2006, 05:50 PM To Gorth -- Linear.... my first thought when completing chapter in NWN1 But you could still explore... Now your path is formulaic and pre-defined. The UI is awesome and logically put together. Finally they got rid of that god-awful killer of joy, the radial menu Not for ease of use, effeciency ect. And you're way out numbered on this one. See bioware forums. Yes, in NWN1 they knew exactly how to make the worst possible decision at any give time. This time around, they actually have a personality and you can vent a bit by beeing mean to them if they piss you off AI is almost as big a complaint as UI. I remember a bunch of near identical armours with a few colour changes here and there. Only difference was which arms went with which legs and so on. All exceedingly ugly. That's nice but now there's even less options and everyone has round shoulder pads. You should try the skill "Spellcraft" What does making saves versus a spell have to do with me bineg unable to visually identfy them and them being generally ugly vfx? Ahh, I see. You are the professional giving the poor amateurs instruction on how to do their job. I'm sure they are now going to listen to you with reverence Actually when it comes to models and texturing, yes ..I can. My portfolio at CG Society http://gkaine.cgsociety.org/gallery/ We got it, you are the authority on the subject. The part of your resume that details your career exploits in professional game animation must be staggering. Again, does wonders for your credibility it's my opinion that the animations are much worse than in NWN1 ..yes. Have you any experience with animationg or modeling to question my judgement? It's subjective in any case, I prefer the smoother more natural appearing animations of NWN1 yes. Yeah, it sucks, doesn't it. Makes the game completely unplayable out of the box. Didn;t say that but it does suck quite a bit from my perspective to take out such a 'glaring feature' as roshan put it. Emotes? Who cares? I do. To get rid of the god-awful Diablo like inventory tetris of the first game ? In my opinion it is worse to have your items all the same size and all so small you can't quickly identfiy them yes. In multiplayer online speed is important. I suppose since you languish and sloth about offline and can afford to play without the challenges of online play you may not need a change and can remain apathetic. Yes, yes, we got it the first two times. Your skills in implementing those features in the game engine are way superior since you claim them to be amateurs. No, I simply pointed out this is why NWN1 was better. Bioware managed to do it. Yeah, Nasher sure lived in a peasant hut. As did some of the other people in Blacklake district. Far less furnishings. Less theme sets, trust me I mod and I know. You don't so dont know. Anybody actually use those? Everyone complainging about it at Bioware. Where have you been? Yeah, 5-10 seconds are unbearable. Online players are an insignificant minority. It's declared target group this time around were the players who actually play the game (while still enabling people to do modding). I doubt Obsidian thinks of multiplayers as insignificant, despite that you cant play online yourself. Oh ****, my face looks like me :'( Is this a valid argument where you're from? And the multiplayers are... insignifcant compared to the singleplayers in numbers. So according to you Obsidian should ignore the multiplayers altogether and not fix those things? The biggest problem here is that they recycled any at all. Most of the NWN1 stuff that wasn't outright bad was forgettable. Crossing fingers and hoping to never hear Aribeths grating voice again in any game/mod/whatever. Outright bad? Forgettable? The Scores that drew rave reviews in the awards Bioware won? You are cheating. Comparing to Kotor2 now, are we? That makes it 49 ridiculous claims why you think NWN2 is worse than NWN1, not 50 Unlike NWN1, you can at least use dialogue for something in NWN2. Yeah shame on me for making fun of the dialog... Shudders at the thought of Deekin with wings. I can see how it is problem though, that they tuen a D&D game into a D&D game. Since when was Deekin an RDD? I'm talking about the PC characters, your hero..yknow..hellooo? For a self proclaimed superior game developer and animator, it shouldn't really be a problem. Ask Oerwinde if you need some hints. My point is it's a step backwards to intentionally ommit ease of use. and indirectly occlude so many from being able to mod. The pause button is your friend. Not online it's not Since cleave (especially greater cleave) is a sequence of events happening out of turn, enlighten us, oh guru of game desigen, how would you illustrate those 20 out of turn attacks without just being a blur? With a ghosted transparanet image to simulate movement. Or it could be a deliberate attempt at distancing itself from the menu system of NWN1. Radial menus still brings back bad memories. What do radial menus have to do with unorganized feats selections at the character creation screen? I remember a bloodcrazed dwarven monk yelling "Death and Damnation" and bashing my poor crates to cinders... If you doors were bad, you should try fighting Gazebos. I know a cleric named Eric that would love to have you in his party. That's funny and all but I still get stuck in doors. No comment. Still to try actually creating a finished module. Modding doesn't interest me. That's nice,it does me. And probably half of the community. Ah yes, multiplayer... I've heard rumours about those things happening. You mean "the death of"?. I hated it as much as I did in BG2. Damn nearsighted elves can't see more than 30 meters without turning blind. No Fog of war..in an RPG.. I see, you love the load times, so it doesn't bother you to experiment a bit every now and then with different tactics and then reload? Rigth i enjoy endless load times from subpar games when my computer is maybe the best thing on the market today. Peat moss and straw is a very common building material on the Sword Coast ? Not uncommon for mediaval buildings to share a certain similarity in building style and materials. You sounds like a sleezy car salesman trying his best to sell me a lemon. The truth is, no..it's not ok for every single roof to be the same, or every single building for that matter. Yeah, it really sucks playing on those 42" plasma screens. Modes disappearing completely off your field of vision. No, just 20' and it's worse than it was before. The ultimate in immersiveness. Peasant executions. Personally I'm a campaigner for more Ritual Virgin Sacrifice in crpgs, but nobody listen to that either. At the very least it's realistic. If you're going to take away exploring off of paths, don;t ALSO take away my freedom to kill at will. Yes, a fundamental need to behead innocent peasants in coop, how dare they? Blame it on the all being leftist reactionary Californians. If that fail, play the "Terrorist" card. Make sure those peasants suffer. The principle. If I want to do that in an RPG, I should be able to do it. If I'm evil, if I just feel like it there should be no reason not to. Believable, maybe. That would make them ugly but believable. NWN1 weapons were accurate in many cases and both attractive and beleivable. Now swords are just 1 mm slabs of granite. Theyre neither attractive or beleiveble. Since most of my memories of NWN1 are bad, I would rather compare it to the IE games, they were nice. The RPG of the Year Award say if you didn't like NWN1 in the minority there. 35) Um..Hair anyone? Obsidian should be saying: "Can we get a pro in here?" Ah yes, you are the pro. Why don't you show some examples of how you would program the engine to support better hair without choking it? Don't tell me, you are also an authority on hairstyles besides game engine programming and animation? The girls are going to be all over you :cool: Caster was not a viable option in NWN OC because of the god-awful radial menu system. Not even with a lot of quickslots used. Not from my experience.. the quickslots did fine. No one used the radial menu in combat, only to set things up when one had time. Casters suck now since the brutally strict adherence to 3.5 they don't have enough spells to dfend themselves or win any substantial battles. In NWN1 you could literally fight alone if you knew how to build, now? pfft Casters blwo so abd now they need a party even with the best build. Now we are getting somewhere. There is no option for g-strings and chainmail bikinis... this is probably more a reason for resentment than many of the other pointless points (I might add that it would have been nice with a dial to adjust breast and male genital size too). No, it justtadds to the sense of realism. And convinces me the modelers knwo what theyre doing, which hasn;t happened yet. This such an outright lie, that I can't even be bothered to post screenshots of 1985 games. How would you know? You admittedly don't PVP, mod, or much of anything else from what I've heard. Good riddance to squares, tiles, 45 degree ramps, etc. If they did a minimap like in IWD2 however... Circular minimaps with no path revealing is as pointless as throwing a circular blob up there..oh wait, they did that ..nm. Haven't run across that one. I have a few quest items in my inventory that I can't sell, so I just dump them in my favourite barrel. Quest Items in barrels and you have no complaints...If all NWN fans were as easy to please as you Obsidian could put put Gauntlet 1 and name it NWN2 and youd be ahppy. And if somebody releases a CEP for NWN2 in a few years time, who knows? It might have some interesting stuff in there too. But no custom models...one of the main things the CEP team worked on.. So, we are now down to 38 reasons as this is just repetion. You like hearing your own voice much? That's the best argument you could come up with? Is your well running dry? Actually you;ve yet to argue anything, it's been all apathy on your part up to here. As in? The cameras are great, both pre- and post patch. lol...Obsidian we finally found one. Someone that liked your pre-patch cameras. I remember how NWN1 felt incredibly dull and uninspired. I managed through teeth grinding and an inbred stubborness to persevere until mid chapter 4 after which boredom won out and the game got uninstalled, never to return (and good riddance). You're right about the NWN1 OC to some degree, but online play and custom content is what fuels these games for the long haul. Don't forget that. I've never had anything as low as 20fps on either game. How nice for you, I get 15 fps on a system that blows yours away. Essential combat bugs? I've found one noticable bug so far (during scripted party changes, you added party member leaves his/her brain back in the inn and gets stuck in puppet mode). Read the 1.03 patch list you'll see what I'm talking about. Maybe, but the sorry excuse for a game leading up to that "glorious" ending (whatever it might have been) does require a lot of redemption from the ending. It was rushed.. Because D&D games are (losely) based on D&D rules? Since this is a duplicate, we are now at what, 47? Even Bioware knew overbearing Adherence to the rules didn;t translate to the game. They got that right. Obsidian got that wrong. A sequel will due to it's nature of being a sequel rqarely ever have the "Wow" factor. That's untrue, and frankly sounds a inexperienced and misinformed. I was "wowed" by BG2, Oblivion, World of Warcraft and a host of other games that other's were also "wowed" by. Boring, Linear, Ugly, Non Immersive, Easy, and Annoying are all things I did feel in NWN1. The game just dragged on and on until it was painful. Looking forward to my second game of NWN2 That's nice for you. I hope to someday as well. As it stands now this game looks and feels "alpha" stage to me. >

No I was simply pointing out that to sites that mattered and for the voice of the majority of that time , NWN1 did not suck. Look at who the response was to.

These kinda matter RPGamer PC RPG of the Year RPG Vault Product of the Year Gamespot Editor's Choice RPGDot Gold Award E3 Game Critics Award Best Role Playing Game E3 2002 (Third year in a row!) Gamers.com Top 10 PC Games of 2002 - #1 Electric Playground Best RPG For PC

Too bad the judges of 86 awards said differently. http://nwn.bioware.com/about/awards.html

Yet you've yet to demonstrate how they're "false". How can they be subjective opinions and false simultaneously? No, not "Billions and Billions". Hundreds ..that aren't the phantoms you want them to be: http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...&forum=109&sp=0 http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...&forum=109&sp=0 http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...19407&forum=109 http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...19407&forum=109 http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...09&sp=0#4506002 http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...14894&forum=109 My opinions are combative? Where is the "attack"? Simply because you disagree doesn't make it an attack. Your insults that were moderator edited were though.

Wait, you could explore and run off of paths before and now you can't. How is that better in any way?

Dark Raven apparently missed the part where you aren't a troll for not liking NWN2 and explaining why.

I agree, load times are too long. Portraits in the vein of the IE games would be pleasing to my eyes. However they wouldnt be needed if Obsidian got the character models and customization right. The request for a cleave animation is utterly stupid. It would completely invalidate the FB class. I do miss the dance of death though. It seems Obsidian couldnt come up with good animations for combat and then just decided to make characters fight at light speed instead. This needs to be fixed. I blame this on leftist politics. This is another really idiotic decision on Obsidians part. NWN needs detailed character stats ala Icewind Dale 2. I dont know why but I cant navigate anywhere using the normal minimap. But since I run on High res, I can use the main area map as the minimap, and that is perfectly suitable for me. Improvements to the actual minimap would be welcome. Points other than the ones I quoted above are just nitpicking, for the most part, or dont concern me at all. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed, these are all big ones. Though the poorly modeled and textured, inaccurate and unresearched armor, and flimsy cardboard looking weapons coupled with no vertex weighting are two glaring weaknesses as well. I could almost play this game again if they managed to fix both of those things with new people on the job.

Good post, thanks for your contribution.

Your complaints are whines because they are either subjective, assinine, or both (and in most cases issued with a childish petulance); meanwhile you're a troll because you address this topic with misplaced authorative attacks and a combative attitude. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They're assinine because you said so? Because someone else said so? Many of these complaints are the same you'll find at Bioware forums by hundreds of people, so subjective sure, but complaints none the less. Where am I "combative" or authoratative? As i recall you and one other were the first to start hurling personal attacks, not I.

You don

like what? And what of the other things? You perceive some to be the same problems in NWN1 so I'm a troll?

Why don

Anyways for me personally. If Obsidian somehow managed to solve 1, 2 , 4 , 5, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 31, 37, and 42 over time, i'd probably give this game a 10/10 and you couldnt pay me to walk away from the game. EDIT: Add 21 to this list. Because it's seriously flawed.

Yeah, because an extra inch makes all the difference. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Inch?! You didn't mod did you? you could build full on mountains underground, remember LOTR mods? Remember 9 layers scenarios? You had to ascend to the top of a giant throne that took five minutes and you knew you were going somewhere important. Now it's just "oh, theres the boss, right next to everyone else..*yawn*" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. It

Yeah, because an extra inch makes all the difference. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Inch?! You didn't mod did you? you could build full on mountains underground, remember LOTR mods? Remember 9 layers scenarios? You had to ascend to the top of a giant throne that took five minutes and you knew you were going somewhere important. Now it's just "oh, theres the boss, right next to everyone else..*yawn*"

I still can't see how this is a game ender. That's like saying "oh crap, I can't alter the terrain of the game as I play, it fails". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think you understand. You used to be able to do that in NWN1. And it was used often. How else would you elevate a boss underground? It's all flat underground now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't recall ever controlling the terrain while I was playing. Which is what your complaint read as, at least to me. Since you called it a "game ender". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> For modding. It's a huge feature that was removed from building cave and cavern systems. As Soulthief said "it's why cave boss encounters in the NWN2 OC seem less 'grandiose' than in NWN1".

I still can't see how this is a game ender. That's like saying "oh crap, I can't alter the terrain of the game as I play, it fails". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think you understand. You used to be able to do that in NWN1. And it was used often. How else would you elevate a boss underground? It's all flat underground now.

At least you concede that a lot of them are right. "Trolling" however wasn't my intention.

1, 8, 14, 21, 31, 37, 38, 42, 45 and 50 seem "nitpicky"? LOL! Those are game enders lol..

In no paticular order. 50 Reasons NWN2 is worse than NWN1: 01) Linear Gameplay. The introduction of pathfinding not only removed exploration from the game in that you can no longer wander freely, but forced people to download custom content files to play online. A double step backwards and arguably (next to the overly strict adherence to pen and paper rules) the worst thing about NWN2 today. 02) UI is exceedingly counter-intuitive. The scattered and buried controls make it much harder to control your hero/party than ever thought possible. It crowds the screen that's already so zoomed in you cant see the entire map you're on. The time it takes to organize, buff , and finally attack a hostile in NWN2 is at least 30 seconds longer than in NWN1, and likely much longer for casters or scroll users. For some reason they decided to take away the clearly defined buffs indication icons and replace them with miniture green boxes. Without a magnifying glass you wont be sure what buffs you have. 03) Henchmen AI. Ok so before there really was no AI, but at least they knew what to do and not just stand there, run away, or get in the way. 04) Details of the game! They all add up. But in NWN2 there aren't enough to add. Remember the seemingly endless list of armor to choose from and how they didn't all include the same round shoulder pad? Yeah gone are those days too. Remember how shields looked solid, and weapons didnt look like 1mm sheets of graphite? NWN2 likes it when your weapons look like 1 mm sheets of graphite. 05) Corny and overused Spell VFX. Remember how you could actually tell what the oponent was casting, or what buffs he had in NWN1? Remember how impressive you looked when fully buffed in NWN1? Nothing to look at now. In NWN2 The spell vfx are so opaque and similar now that it's hard to tell one from another. Many spells don't even visually match well with the actual spell at all. Some are just flat out corny circles thrown on there with no reference to dimension. I think I saw my grandmothers quilting pattern and my local taco bell clerk's hairnet design! 06) Barely any Creatures! Remember the huge options list you had for NPC's and creature models? Kiss that goodbye. Obsidian seems content on giving you a demo's worth of monsters for NWN2. This may be attributed to the amateurish modeling done by the same part of the team that decided to hide their embarrasing body models with 12 tons of bad looking armor and the same round shoulder pad when naked. 07) Unprofessional Animations. Animations look like day one at Maya 101 ..at a Community College. When my teifling cheers it looks like he's tossing hay bails, when my sorcoress casts spells it looks like she's pouring water. The basic melee animation actually has one less animation than NWN1 2.5 years later...not more..less. 08) No interior hieght map adjuster! you can no longer build raised terrain in caves. ??? Hello?? 09) NWN1's Emotes are outta there. When you see the cheer, you might understand why. I'd be embarrassed too if I was an Obsidian animator. 10) Inventory. Why is my scythe the same size as my scroll? And why can't I see either of them? "quick give me this or that item!" --"uhh" uhh" ok" wait" ..."no...hmm...wait think i found it...no, no nevermind that's not it" 11) No Face Generator? No Body types? Amateurish unorganic looking faces, bodies and hair? 6 years after the Sims and this isn't in a game that is supposed to be built around making your character unique? 12) Limited furnishings for interiors are near hovel proportions. Remember the endless selections you had to make your interiors look every bit as unique as the feats and skills of your character? Those theme based object menus are long gone. Everyone is in a log cabin with the same rug and chests now, doesnt matter if you're a king or a peasant. 13) WASD controls might just as well give error messages now. Try simply running straight using the W key and have laugh at what follows. 14) Load times. Get the popcorn and cross your finger you don't have to reboot..just from making a transition. NWN2 made good and sure you won't be playing online even if you do manage to find that servers pwc file somehow. 15) Portraits. As if NWN2 could be any less immersive they decided to take away even the simplest but profound customizations when they made sure you can't use custom portraits now. No photo realistic heads for you, nope. You're forced to look at that poorly modeled character you regretfully settled for earlier. 16) Multiplayer nightmare. This one may be the death of NWN2 yet. Not only are clueless noobs never going to join your server because they never knew about pwc files, but if they did find out how to join they'd face the near inability to interact with other players compared to NWN1. No clear way to invite or be invited. No player list for the server. Text screen fly's by, fonts are displayed too small or too large, dialog pauses, transition crashes, entire party's are forced to transition together when just one wants to go increasing the likelihood that more than one of you will crash. It's ugly...real ugly. 17) Recycled music and voicesets. Though some of the same voicesets availble for character creation is appreciated, ALL of them are not. Remember the one song you wished stayed from NWN1 was either the taverns or the enchanted peaceful forests? Well the Tavern song is now a hokey ho-down from down south, a knee-slapping number almost country complete if it had the twang accented voice from the tutorial NPC you encounter earlier. The rest is NWN1 digitally unmastered. I actually hear air changes on some of the different voices and expect to hear a cough and a car alarm in the background. Who's obsidians sound guy? 18) Dialog options in the OC are actually less diversified than KotorII. You know what's about happen next, and how to get there. Zzzzzz 19) 3.5 Likeness. They spent so much time trying to adhere to 3.5 rules making the game more pen and paper than playable game, they actually forgot to give RDD's wings, and Palemasters bone grafts. lol..and someone called it "immersive" in the Fine Wine thread. 20) Toolset. This cryptic piece of unintuitive aurora alpha gone wrong could peplex a CIA data analyzer. Why do I need to guess what the x y z is? What about sliders? No Wizards? Good way to make sure only the truly skilled and patient get to work on modding, and leave out everyone else. Why even have item creation with so limited options? Good luck even seeing the item you want to make in the preview window, it's all blacked out anyways. 21) Target aquisition is still in beta test right? When I want to click on a hostile I miss and run past him 75% of the time. NWN 1's Bioware team managed to remember people actually need to play this game, 22) No combat animations for any moves? NWN1 did this better and it's 5 years older. You'd think they'd have made one for cleave, dance of death even? 23) The Feats list on character creation is stacked for the same type of feat eg: Weapon focus. There's no sub menus? No organization Was this meant to fool us into thinking there were more feats? Bioware managed to streamline that before public release. 24) Remember how in NWN1 you could simply open a door and walk through, or bash it and do the same? Obsidian wants you to feel challenged so they made doors trap you so you get killed by NPC's or get frustrated and quit the game. I find myself fighting more doors than actual creatures or thugs. 25) Having the ability modify what you want to select/see in the toolset, so that you don't accidently select trees when you mean to grab NPCs, and you don't have a screen cluttered with waypoints when you don't want to be looking at them. 26) Remember how in NWN1 multiplayer you could zoom out and see the map as needed when big wars between factions/guilds or psimply party's broke out? In NWN2 Obsidian felt it better that you can;t plan ahead and that you can only select a hostile when they get real close and that's if your cursor even works and doesnt click past them. 27) Remember how you had to get near an area to reveal it in NWN1? Remember the excitement that generated when you couldn't tell where you might be going? There is no Fog of War in NWN2. 28) You can't die in NWN2. You're forced to endure more of the same hour long inevitable foregone conclusion dialouge and "AI Party mumbers do it for me or run away" combat. No but seriously you can't die. 29) Why are all rooftops the same peat moss and straw? That never happened in NWN1. When you went somewhere in NWN1 you knew it was somewhere different than the place you just left. Now, The rooftops have the NWN2 shoulder pad syndrome, theyre all the same. 30) Remember how you could put everything you needed into your quickslots? For NWN2 Obsidian fancied hiding your combat modes in the far reaches of the bottom right of your monitor so much that they made good and sure you have to go there to find tiny combat mode buttons to switch, not intuitively in the middle where they belong in quickslots. 31) Remeber hwo you could just walk up to a peasant and bhead him if you so chose in NWN1? Maybe you wanted some evil points or possible loot. Well Obsidian in all of their Disney Splendor decided to protect the random villager and spare them from your fury now as you can no longer randomly attack non combatants. 32) To further compound the above issue, you cant make a non hostile hostile. How does this fair for PVP? Well take a look at how like 2 people are playing online total and figure it out. NWN had the foresight to knwo that basic fundamental option needed to be there. 33) NWN1 though limited graphically still managed to make armor and weapons look believable. Armor and weaponry looks unresearched in NWN2 . None of it looks either Forgotten realms authentic or conventional Medieval. 34) Remember how in NWN1 you could see all of your character stats right there at once? Now you can't even see your actual AB and BAB in the same locaition let alone item bonuses. 35) Um..Hair anyone? Obsidian should be saying: "Can we get a pro in here?" 36) Casters suck now. Remember how being a caster was a viable option in PVP or even OC? Yeah well your level 20 gets like 10 spells total for some reason. Good luck with that. 37) Underwear? Why are my PC's underwear enough to arm a milita? Is this because the modelers were trying to hide the poor body modeling they "baked" down and rushed out? 38) PVP? Once a staple of NWN1 This new game has been stripped and reduced down so badly that PVP isn't anything more than two unbeleivebly poorly modeled meshes with shoulderpads making 1985 animations to attack one another and the ensuing death doesn't even look real provided you can even kill each other. 39) Minimap is far inferior to the basic Map of NWN1. At least in that you knew where you were going. try to follow the minimap going from a to b...no seriously try it. Make that square already. 40) Quests dont remove quest items on completion. I'm left being confused as if I even finished the quest even after I know I did eg: recovery of an item. NWN1 managed that on release. 41) Remember CEP's great models for NWN1? Custom modeling is made so inaccesible because Obsidian thought their horrid models looked good enough to restrict from public access. So there is no option to tweak their meshes or get an idea of what we can all rebuild to work in game. 42) No sense of weight or flex tension to any of the characters! Bioware looks like a George Lucas Movie team compared to the Obsidian portfolio day work on animation model naturalism. NWN2 boasts flmsy beta characters that look like line drawings weilding plastic swords skating across the ground like some bad action figure frame animation. 43) Camera's. I've heard these were patched, but man o man, if you don;t have that patch I feel sorry for you. This was a non issue for NWN1. 44) Remember how NWN1 "felt" epic? The overall look and feel and mood of NWN2 was left unrealized when somewhere between the art director and the project lead they lost focus when trying to reinvent the wheel. This quote by Echolocating seems fitting: -- "I

*is confused* I liked the graphics better than I liked the Oblivion graphics. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tell the guy who made it. Found the link at bioware forum.