scrotiemcb

The problem I see with the various suggestions in this thread is that they are based almost entirely on "fluff" and very little on the actual gameplay. You may not understand how Might makes your pistol hit harder, but that doesn't really matter. What matters is: 1. Does every attribute have a chance to shine, for EVERY class? (This encourages build diversity by giving you six options to max.) 2. Does every attribute have a chance to suck - that is, minimum value without totally gimping the character - for EVERY class? (This encourages build diversity by giving you six options to min.) 3. Do the attributes provide a variety of useful bonuses for play, or are certain bonus either overemphasized or omitted? (This encourages gameplay diversity by allowing a variety of situations, particularly in combat.) So here are the real problems actually affecting the current attribute system: 1. Might is used on tanky Fighters and Moon Godlikes to create large amounts of self-healing, utterly trumping Constitution. As a result, virtually no one invests in Constitution. 2. An ability-centric character such as Wizard with low Intelligence is unthinkable due to the drastic effect Intelligence has on virtually all abilities. To some extent this applies to all character classes. 3. Two abilities, Perception and Resolve, provide virtually identical effects, leading to very Deflection-heavy gameplay. 4. In Path of the Damned, player Accuracy is pathetic compared to enemy defenses, making DPS builds ridiculously less consistent than tank builds. Thus, my suggestions for attribute changes are far less complicated: 1. Remove "+3% Healing" from Might, give Constitution "+3% Healing received." 2. Nerf Intelligence to "+4% area of effect" and "+3% duration." Simultaneously, buff base AoE radii and durations by about 10%. 3. Get rid of the Deflection bonus on [pick one: Perception or Resolve], and replace it with an equal Accuracy bonus. This would effect the Deflection and Accuracy of countless enemies throughout the game, not just players. (I would go Resolve for Accuracy and keep Deflection with Perception, but vice versa could also work.) Edit: specifically regarding Dirigible's proposal, we are far too late in the decelopment cycle (lol) to replace one set of attributes with a completely different set. All enemies would need entirely new stats. Unless your suggestion purtains to a potential sequel, you'd need to make minor edits to the 6 attributes we have now.

@Emptiness: what I was trying to say is that, as the default movement speed in practice if not in name, Stealth Mode in this game is intolerably slow. I'm not saying Stealth Mode should be as fast as non-Stealth (emphatically the opposite), but having Stealth as slow as it is now is borderline sadistic.

Should be minimum 3 portraits for each subrace+gender combination. Godlike need more portraits most of all, there are only two Moon Godlike portraits, 1 male 1 female. My current party has 5 Moon Godlikes in it, so I'm using pale elf art for two, aumaua for one. Lame.

I do not think secret-finding should be enabled outside of "stealth mode." It makes sense that if you spirit through things, you'd miss them. The problem is that "stealth mode" is the functional default, and should be treated as such. The movement speed while in it is something the devs should have known would be a near-constant player experience and made it a much more bearable, normal speed. Outside of "stealth mode" should have been given a fast movement speed which makes it feel special. Really, it shouldn't be that you move normal then toggle on secret-finding by moving slow; it should be that you move normal then toggle off secret-finding to move fast. Sprint Mode, not Stealth Mode.

Bump for possible replies?

Since everyone likes giving short answers, mine is "efficiency." Could one balance the game so that prebuffing was taken into consideration, and that NPCs viewed certain buffs as hostile actions rather than allowing players to do whatever right in front of their noses? Yeah, probably. But boy, would that ever be a lot of work. I feel this is something a lot of players don't take into account, while good developers use this technique all the time. The amount of developer effort put into a game is always finite, and thus means cuts will need to be made. So it makes sense for devs to avoid mechanics quagmires, places where a balanced solution may be possible, but the potential gain isn't worth the work needed. Would it be more realistic if we had precombat buffing? Absolutely. But the amount of balance attention it would require from devs is too much; the cost is too high. I'm glad they dodged the issue and worked on more important things instead.

@OddHermit: to be completely honest, my current party is 5 very tanky chanters (all hired) and a priest (myself). I considered adding additional caster options, particularly a 4 chant priest wizard party. However, at the end of the day a second caster would need to add an impressive amount of survivability, and the priest can already do everything (although not everything well): daze, prone, blind, and of course buff. The one thing he can't do is charm. So maybe you're right, since that's one thing a Cipher can do well, while a Wizard can't AFAIK. Mental Binding and Eyestrike would also be nice. I guess I've overlooked it as an option by mistake. Still, perhaps for the best. You need a lot of stopping power to justify cutting a chanter in a summoner party.

Then you just end up with the exact opposite problem: there's zero reason to use the lower-level phrases, ever. Unless you make them stronger (so their passive effects are much stronger in the early game) and the higher-level phrases much weaker. But then you'd end up with the same circumstance you have now, though at least the chanter's early game will have been nerfed I suppose. That would indeed be the design trap, but I didn't mean that Blessed Was Wengridh, Quickest of His Tribe would become an 8-second phrase. I meant that stuff like The Silver Knights' Shields Broke Both Arrow and Blade would become a first-level, 8-second phrase. The result would still be that, pre-summon, chanters would use their shortest phrases. However, post-summon they'd generally switch to the older phrases to better support their minions (only one summon allowed per chanter at a time), at least once they've reached whatever invocation tier they're ultimately assuming for. Thus, although the lowest-level phrases would be used last, they'd still see some use. What would change, for the better, is that a first-level invocation would go from something with a static charge tone, to something which becomes easier to get out as the chanter levels up. In other words, phrases might not feel a usual leveling progression (just use shortest, mostly), but invocations would. Also, I think chanters would be more interesting if they levelled like this: 1: Access to level 1 phrases (10 seconds), access to level 1 invocations (require 2 phrases), choose 2 phrases, choose 1 invocation Every level past 1: choose 1 phrase and 1 invocation 3: Access to level 2 phrases (7 seconds) and invocations (require 3 phrases) 5: Access to level 3 phrases (5 seconds) and invocations (require 4 phrases) 7: Access to level 4 phrases (4 seconds) and invocations (require 5 phrases) 9: Access to level 5 phrases (3 seconds) and invocations (require 7 phrases) 11: Access to level 6 phrases (2 seconds) and invocations (require 10 phrases) ...but that would probably be wishing too much.

I think it would be cool if Druids had an item in their Grimoire slot which could be enchanted to provide bonuses which apply exclusively to the Spiritshift form. Much like slaying other Wizards grants you access to their Grimoires, slaying other Druids would give you access to their "totems" or whatever, so you could get potential upgrades that way, too (although, naturally, those fights would become proportionally more difficult - they get to use their "totems" in the fight).

The chanter class design is facepalm-worthy. The best phrases, in actuality, are the first you learn; they add a stack in 4 seconds, not 8. So since the summons of the class are the payoff, that's what you end up using. All game long. The smart thing to do would have been to make the first-level phrases 8 seconds, and the final tier 4 seconds. And have all Invocations require one less phrase. And utterly forbid repeating the same phrase twice in a row. So you'd start with, say, one phantom after 16 seconds of combat, and over time what you'd need to summon that phantom would drop from 16 seconds to 14, then 12, then 10, and finally 8. Or you could save up for new, more powerful invocations you've learned since. Chanters are very powerful if you stick to the short phrases. If you're using anything 6 seconds or longer, that's why you think they aren't a bit overpowered. (They undoubtedly are in the early parts of the game.) To be honest, I don't think ciphers are that amazing. To me they feel a LOT like a hybrid of a wizard and a chanter - a little ability useat combat start, then spend a lot of time making normal attacks, then use another power, then back to normal attacks. I feel ciphers are too "middle of the road" - I prefer either the slow but powerful "unlimited" invocations or the proper combat-opening massive spelldump capability of a proper spellcaster. Or, in other words, 1 wizard + 1 chanter > 2 ciphers.

So here are my thoughts on Path of the Damned thus far: 1. Slow, tanky strategies fare very well, while attempting a high damage, low survivability approach is suicidal. A lot of this is because there are precious few ways to increase your Accuracy, but many ways to increase Deflection. So since you're pretty much guaranteed not to hit often, you pursue an attrition strategy where you don't need to hit often. The result is that PotD has a much slower rate of gameplay than one might expect, unless one is losing badly; your casters mostly focus on attrition spells like Priest buffs and the wizard's Chill Fog (both of which ignore Accuracy or get multiple Accuracy rolls in a single cast), and multiple tanks feels mandatory. Proposed solution: remove the Deflection bonus from Resolve and replace it with an equal Accuracy bonus. This would both make it possible for DPSers to consistently hit AND limit the amount of Deflection one can get from attributes, making tanks a little less tanky. Note that enemies have Resolve too, so this would give enemies with low Resolve more Deflection and lower Accuracy, while those with high Resolve would lose Deflection but gain Accuracy (which may be scary versus tank characters). 2. Might seems to be very high on virtually all characters. The reason for this is that it effects healing, including some sources which might not be obvious to new players but factor prominently in the decision-making of the min-maxer. For example, Fighter's Constant Recovery, Chanter's Ancestral Memories, and the Moon Godlike's Silver Tide are all boosted by Might. Thus a Fighter with 18 Might and 3 Con generally has more effective Endurance per encounter than one with 3 Might and 18 Con. Additionally, Might is already very strong due to the widespread enemy DR in PotD. Base 10 damage against DR 4 deals 1 on graze and 6 on hit. 3 Might goes to 4 on hit; 17 Might goes to 2 on graze (double!) and 8 on hit. This example does not fully capture the ridiculousness of enemy DR in PotD; the reality is even more severe. Proposed solution: remove "+3% healing" from Might, and add "+3% healing received" to Constitution. This would encourage players to invest in Con for the characters they'll heal most often. 3. Intelligence is overpowered. From the obvious Wizard to the much less obvious Fighter, everyone wants their abilities to have a decent duration and AoE. Getting a high duration and AoE for Clear Out, for example, means your typical min/max Fighter or Rogue is only slightly less intelligent than your typical Wizard. Why? Because 6% and 5% are both considerably more than 3%. Your abilities benefit heavily from high Intelligence investment... and suffer tremendously if you choose to neglect it, essentially removing your characters special abilities from the realm of usefulness. Proposed solution: change Intelligence to +3% area of effect, +3% duration. Simultaneously, increase all base areas of effect and extend all base durations by about 15%. for example, the current base radius of the Paladin's Zealous Endurance is 2.5m, which is 3.5m with 18 Int and 1.75m with 4 Int; after my suggestion, base 2.8m, 3.47m with 18 Int, 2.3m with 4 Int. I welcome your thoughts.