Jump to content

eubatham

Members
  • Posts

    70
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by eubatham

  1. Everyone covers multiple roles in this game, the Paladin just happens to be quite bad as the roles he can fill and is (almost) completely overshadowed by a Priest (like, literally when it comes to most buffs).
  2. If this is the case then I apologize for being wrong. A bit too late in the evening to check it out right now though.
  3. When you look at my logs, what you aren't taking into account is that the pierce damage is calculating damage bonuses from superb enchant(45%), might(39%), crits(40%), and sworn enemy(15%). The additional +100% burn damage isn't additive with the 45, 39, 40, and 15. Its multiplying the total damage by 2. Crits are additive and not multiplicative. If you have +200% damage and you crit for another 50%, then your total bonus damage is 250%. Lashes are multiplicative and not additive. If you have +200% damage and you deal another +100% lash damage, then your total damage is +400%. Sigh if you want to split hairs, fine. Quality enchants, The Might Attribute and Sworn Enemy are Total Damage Modifiers, not additional effects, no. They specifically state x total damage, same with critical strikes (I quote from the ingame cyclopedia: "increases the total damage done by 50%"), and not +% damage like effect. If it wasn't, if it was additive, other additional damage effects wouldn't be affected other than weapon damage (unless they would make another exception to the rulebook). Additional critical damage is also additive from that regard, just like Torment's Reach (+50% Crush damage) will be additive with any other ability that adds additional Crush damage (but critical strike is only additive to itself, and multiplicative with effects, unlike normal effects). Like I said, there are a small amount of specific traits, like scion of flame, that state "Adds +20% damage to burn damage" while being multiplicative with Burn Damage and not additive, but generally this is not the case. Flames of Devotion adds +50% fire damage and Intense Flames add +25% damage to FoD, to end up with +75% additional fire damage, not 62.5%. If you add your Flame Lash from the enchant to that, that's another additive +25% fire damage. If you add another extra damage effect type to that, it's added to the pile of damage, not multiplied in any way. And before you might go 'that's not true, it multiplies with your weapon damage!', that's true, but again, I'm talking about (generally) additional effects from the same damage type. Having to specify that total burn damage is multiplicative with your weapon damage is the same as saying it's additive to your weapon damage, so no, I didn't specify that nor should you expect it to be specified. It's what the % derives its value from, not thin air. So could end up with (((weapon damage)+(weapon damage * burn((+25+25+25) * scion))) + (weapon damage * corrosive(+25)) * modifier) * modifier). Although you could also apply the modifiers to the weapon damage component (before additional damage is calculated), instead of total damage. It varies from game system to game system.
  4. Right, I have the feeling you're wording it differently than what is usually meant when it comes to calculating damage in games. Calling +50% multiplicative implies that it would multiply with other similar effects. I.e. Torment's Reach deals + 50% crush damage. If it was multiplicative and you'd deal an additional source of crush damage (let's say +20%), it would mean +60% crush damage total instead of +75% total crush damage. That depends how you decide to multiply, I was going from tooltips like Intense Flames that state "Modifies Flames of Devotion to deal +25% flame damage", which could imply +50% * 1.25%. If you'd then add another modifier in the same way (+25% burn damage), I'd would be 62.5 * 1.25. Not saying you're wrong, just that you're taking a different route than I am. Yeah, that seems to comply with what I mean. I think it's just a mixed messages that we're sending each other, while meaning the same thing. I have noticed that you have the same anomaly when it comes to Flame of Devotion damage, though.
  5. Care you post your combat log? It's just that it goes against everything posted here on the forums, including (iirc) said by developers themselves. Also, just to make sure, multiplicative is ((total * modifier) * modifier) * modifier) while additive is (total) + (total *modifier) + (total * modifier) + (total * modifier). You sure you aren't mixing things up?
  6. All extra damage is additive. Flames of Devotion deals +50% damage as burn. If you have Burning Lash enchanted on a weapon and picked up the Intense Flames talent, you deal +50% burn +25% burn +25% burn damage (for a total of +100% burn damage). Not 50% * 25% * 25% (+78.1% total). This was done because multiplicative damage modifiers were deemed too difficult to balance. The only exceptions to this rule are Critical Strikes and talents like Scion of Flame, a talent that increases certain specific damage types (although it is currently bugged and does not affect abilities like Flames of Devotion or weapon enchants).
  7. Yes, we are. Please read the entire thread. If you don't wish to do this, then don't make these assumptions.
  8. It's a flat bonus, but it's still a good talent in all honesty. If it was an increase to each disposition I'd say it would be a tad too powerful for just one talent. When it comes to deflection it is impossible for a Paladin to be on equal footing as a Fighter (the Fighter should always have a small lead), especially when using an estoc as a Paladin. That is, unless you do not properly equip and/or build the fighter for tanking, while you do for the Paladin. But it is a minor detail, especially later in the game. What is problematic with the Paladin is that while being a hair better at tanking than most other classes, his other uses are completely inadequate. His support abilities are minor at best and most are rendered pointless by Priests and Chanters (especially later on). Along with this, his offensive capabilities aren't much better than his supportive ones. To underline this problem even further, I'll remind you that almost all optional traits and talents unique to the Paladin class have no bearing on tanking (for the Paladin) but do on support and offense. Again, area's where Paladins most people agree they're lackluster at.
  9. Did you even read what I quoted... ? You might also want check out the thread and see why he posted it. Also, the first PoTD solo's (as far as I know) was a rogue... so what?
  10. In the early to mid game, where the class you use really matters, I can't really see how Paladins are able to keep up with Fighters on single target after level 3. Even in later levels, Fighters still have more defenses like higher deflection and converting hits into grazes, getting back up by themselves after being knocked out and being able to get crit less. A Paladin can get higher base saves, sure, but the fighter can surpass even a PC Paladin with 3+3 rep when it comes to saves (temporarily) via Vigorous Defense. The Paladin's only real advantage is getting 5 seconds off Dominance, which isn't super prevalent spell and certain enemies that use it, like the Fampyr, will always target your weakest party members anyway, reducing the usefulness even further. But after a certain point, halfway through act 2 (even on PoTD), the differences between (all) classes when it comes to tanking becomes very blurred because you can boost defenses through items and spells (from chanters, druids and priests) so high that you can have any character to become virtually immune to damage (especially godlike characters). While PoTD is being solo'd by a great many classes, I'd like to point out that the player that did the solo PoTD Paladin run had this to say; Thank you very much! And yes this is also what i think. At least it means that it's doable for all the Melee classes. Finally, You are still using the reasoning like "Paladins are great support" and "Paladins are great tanks" without explaining why that is. Stating "Paladins are great" and not explaining why they're so great, when other people are discussing the mechanics and explaining as to why they're lackluster, is really dull and annoying. And no, only a seemingly handful of people are stating that the Paladin isn't lackluster both in this thread and across the forums. People are more often stating that they're viable to finish the game and can be fun, but that is completely unrelated from the subject of potential. Any class is viable, it's been mentioned again and again that people are finishing the game with just one character. Also, the person you quote that states that Paladins are the best tanks also states the following (among other things); Which contradicts your statements that the Paladin offers great support, a statement that many people disagree with once they've used priests or chanters (especially at higher levels). So what is it? Are Paladins suddenly not great support anymore? Also, using quotes like "These people played the Beta for 9 months" is pointless, considering that the game got several heavy mechanical overhauls during beta and balance shifted around up until the last few weeks before launch.
  11. I think that finishing the game on hard or normal shouldn't have too much bearing on the discussion, really. As long as people talk and measure the Paladin as a class amongst other classes, they should be on point. However talking about something being "viable to finish the game" is pointless and not really the point of the thread, considering it's been proven over and over again that you can finish the game solo with any class on any difficulty.
  12. Interesting, thank you for that information. I also thought you couldn't use Holy Radiance out of combat anymore since the 1.03 patchnotes, but someone brought it up earlier and I thought I was therefor mistaken. Oh well, thanks again for rectifying this.
  13. Yup, it's melee only. Marksman is supposed to be the equivalent for ranged weapons.
  14. The problem with Aura's is that they don't stack with any spells that I'm aware of. For heavy fights, the Priest's spells more than cover the extra +accuracy and +DR. Sure, aura's are up all the time while Priests only have limited spells per rest, but heavy fights are sparse and far between each other in the early game. In the later part of the game Priests are even able to use their 1st and 2nd levels spells per encounter instead of per rest, which cover almost the entire spectrum of Paladin buffs (and give additional benefits and/or are AoE instead of single target). Even during the early game, for short duration fights, the hit aura is easily replacable by a Priest's 1/encounter Holy Radiance, traited to give +5 hit to allies (you can also use it before combat to instantly regain another charge when combat starts). Considering this, along with the heavy cost of 3 out of 5 possible class-trait choices, I wonder if it would be really that overpowered to be able to have all Zealous Aura's active at the same time.
  15. Like seriously, if you want a good martial support unit, make a Priest and give him a Sword & Shield along with a Full-Plate. You're durable and you have so much different buffs, debuffs, cleanses and control spells at your fingertips. It's good fun and very, very effective.
  16. Keep in mind that the ability only affects effects that are present on the target when the spell lands, it doesn't make them immune for the entire duration. Regardless, it doesn't make it that much better though. There is also currently a bug with not being able to dispel dominated/charmed allies and it might be resolved in a later patch (but no guarantee if even then it would be dispelled by Liberating Exhortation). As for now? Yeah, definitely don't pick it on a Paladin.
  17. Maybe reduce Perception to 16 (I've noticed that I managed to pass most if not all checks at 16 Per) and toss a few more points into Might if you're concerned about damage? Your stats seem fine otherwise, don't worry too much about Con. ... although I'm not a fan of Int if it's purely for RP considering that you don't have much Int checks that I can recall, but you do have quite a few Resolve checks. So if you'd have to choose between Int or Resolve, I'd take Resolve for RP.
  18. He didn't even bother to way lay any of the points brought up by other people and just keeps straight out ignoring points that contest his claims, as usual. Regardless, I've expanded my previous post to appease people that can't be bothered or aren't willing to read some of the points brought up earlier in this and other threads where he has participated in. You might also want to take a look at it (and the rest of the thread for that matter).
  19. The casting times aren't that much worse in most situations and a Paladin will most often have far less dexterity combined wear heavier armor, making them extremely sluggish to respond compared to the other support classes (even if they're wearing heavy armor, their generally higher Dex still more than makes up for it). And no, most buffs of the Paladin do not stack with the other support classes. Hastening Exhortation and one or two others (like FoD order boosts) are all that might stack (and I can confirm that Shielding Flames only stacks with certain buffs). A Paladin is more tanky, yes, but only if he's a PC. And if we look purely at support, not only do the other support classes posses more defensive abilities to use on themselves, but also more to use on their party. Not to mention extra abilities in the form of crowd control that they bring. You are also free to explain how an ability like Liberating Exhortation is supposed to compare against Suppress Affliction of a Priest.
  20. If it's a support class why is it so bad a support compared to other support classes? They have a far smaller pool of buffs to distribute, with more than one being weaker versions of what other classes can bring. And no, the buffs generally don't stack. You've been repeating the same thing over and over again without even responding to our claims. You keep repeating that people are playing their Paladins wrong and need to play them more like support characters, yet you keep ignoring that you're telling this to people that say that Paladin supportive abilities suck. At other times you tell people that Paladins have great support, but don't bother to say why it's actually great support.
  21. I'd still heavily contest that 2/encounter FoD's at level 12 is more than adequate. D&D Paladins get more smites as they level up (or via traits) for a reason, i.e. it allows the ability to scale along with the character.
  22. I'm also thinking that the root of many issues that Paladin currently has, is due to that most of their abilities make more sense if they were at will, i.e. instant and without eating up an entire action. The game not being turnbased and/or that you can't stack multiple abilities in one action, kinda makes them hard to implement though.
  23. I also like to add that Priests can grab "Inspiring Radiance", which adds a +5 accuracy (for 15 sec) to buff to their 1/encounter ability (Holy Radiance). It also doesn't stack and you can easily use it for every small fight to give your allies that extra accuracy.
  24. The aura's do not stack with priest buffs and heavy fights are spaced far between each other, you'll only miss out something like +6 accuracy on fights against minor minions that die without any effort. Later in the game when heavy fights start to follow each other up, not only do other buffing classes get even better spells that provide additional damage and defenses, but their first and second spell levels become per encounter (which cover the entire small spectrum of Paladin buffs and much, much more) instead of per rest. Leaving the Paladin, far, far behind them.
  25. If you have to pick between a Fighter or a Paladin in your party, the only real reason why you might want to pick a Paladin over the Fighter is if both of the following 2 conditions are met; The Paladin is the Player Character. If he or she is not then he or she will not get a crucial buff that adds a LOT of defenses. You don't have another class in your party that provides buffs, like a Druid, Priest or Chanter and really don't want them. The minor buffs a Paladin provides don't stack with other similar spells from other classes, and other classes have access to more different buffs (and debuffs) so they can adapt much better to each encounter, plus the buffs that other classes bring are often more potent (be it in power or additional effects). You aren't missing on any crucial buffs or utility if you don't run with a Paladin. A fighter is a far superior tank, especially early on, and a class like a Priest or Chanter provide much more utility and buffs while being alright offtanks to help out the fighter. Just stick them in full plate and give them a sword+shield. However, you can finish them game with a Paladin. But again, people are solo'ing this game so it's up to you how much hands you want to tie behind your back. It's not simply a min-max thing, no matter how hard some might scream from the top of their lungs without any form of argumentation.
×
×
  • Create New...