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Everything posted by mutonizer

  1. disclaimer: All the information below was collected during BB301 in an enclosed environment and tests were conducted between characters only using all weapons and armor available in the beta. Monster balance is therefore irrelevant. Due to some lack of details on some mechanics as well as poorly detailed tool-tips, I probably got a couple things wrong as well. This is also just me testing **** with the tools we have available (and simple modding to make it easier to recruit adventurers). I also could only do level 1 to 8 reliably, but should be a good start. I've started including level 9 to 12 abilities in there as well, but please note that these are just interesting for the class concept they offer, NOT their current implementation (which is not supposed to be active right now). I ran tests with all classes to get a good feel for them before judging each class individually, and I plan on trying to do more class specific reviews under similar conditions as time allows. First, and to clear the air from the start, Rogue is a misnomer for this class. There is nothing "Rogue" about it and instead, it should be called Assassin, which is what it actually is. The +1 Stealth and +2 Mechanic doesn't justify it's name and the class has no inherent "Roguish" abilities that others do not. It's totally possible that you end up with your Fighter being way more Roguish than your Rogue. The rogue is there for one reason, and one reason only: Insane DPS from Critical Hits and Sneak Attacks, which means Assassin. That dealt with, I've gone with two main Rogue roles: Melee Rogue and Ranged Rogue but since they perform pretty much equally, let's just say DPS. RACES Human: Interesting, sadly more often than not, 5 seconds after getting below 50% Endurance, you're dead or running away and the bonus are not that good. Aumaua: Not really relevant to the class Dwarf: Boreal can be interesting for Wilder/Primordial but too situational. Mountain isn't really relevant. Elf: Pale elf are irrelevant, but Wood Elf are really good for a Ranged Rogue Orlan: Wild Orlan is irrelevant but Hearth Orlan is pure awesome on a Rogue Godlike: Only Death Godlike is interesting here though, because of the Rogue DPS potential, enemies under 15% Endurance would be dead next attack anyway most likely. ATTRIBUTES MIG is part of what the class is designed for, no reason not to max it out. It's a bit more situational than PER though I'd raise this second, but if you have other ACC boosts in the party (paladin, etc), then raising it first might be best. CON isn't really relevant though, since it's part of the FORT defense, don't dump it or enemy barbarians will eat you up DEX is really good, especially if you can push Attack Speed beyond the Recovery Time threshold. PER is as usual just a must have simply because you do not know what kind of DEF the enemies will have and higher ACC overall means more stability against anything you might encounter. INT No reason to up it, but don't dump it either. Nothing worst than having your biggest DPS mind controlled or Feared into oblivion. RES Duration boost is handy on some Rogue abilities, but as a whole, there are other, much better Attribute to raise I think. IF you're ok with lots of micro-management and ability spam on your rogue, then go for it, it's great, better than MIG or DEX by far (keep PER to actually land crits and whatnot). If not, don't bother. All in all: For either roles, I'd max out PER/MIG for fast weak melee roles, or PER/DEX for slow heavy melee/ranged roles. If you have ways to boost ACC in your party, MIG/DEX, MIG/RES or DEX/RES might become a thing but personally I'd take stability from PER anyday, simply because it helps ensure that the rogue will not become irrelevant in a high DEF enemy situationCORE ABILITIES (* means you have a talent pick at that level) (level 1) Sneak Attack: Passive x2 damage multiplier against any target that is Blinded, Flanked, hobbled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Prone, Stuck, Stunned or Weakened, as well as during the first two seconds of combat starting. This is part of what allowed the Rogue to break down current combat mechanics as this, just like Critical multiplier, is applied before DT calculation, allowing even the fast Rogues to go sky-high on damage and grazes to pierces even some of the hardest DTs. (level 1) Crippling Strike (2/enc): +25% damage attack with 10sec duration Hobbled effect. Because it's a damage attack, stacks with everything, can trigger sneak attack and is per encounter, this is what you should be opening with every encounter, period. Even at level 1 wielding basic daggers, you'll one shot Average END enemies right then and there most of the time. (level 1) Reckless Assault (modal): There is no reason, ever, to not have this Modal active. Not only the boost to ACC is insane and stacks with everything else, it also gives you yet another damage multiplier on-top of everything else. Even when attacked, you're probably best keeping this on to kill things faster, or just use your level 2 ability "Escape" to re-position. (level 2) Escape (1/enc): This makes any kind of DEF useless on Rogue and why things like Reckless Assault will always be on. Being per encounter means you basically get an out of jail free card every combat and really, how much ****ing up can you do per combat. Another really good use for this is to get your Rogue instantly deep behind enemy lines to get that annoying caster down. Risky of course, but Escape > Crippling Strike and he'll be dead before anyone else notices. (level 3*) Dirty Fighting (passive): +10% Hit to Crit range is crazy on it's own, but on a Rogue, that just means more and more damage multiplier. Note that it doesn't make you hit more reliably, it just converts any attack hit roll (after ACC-DEF calculation) of 86+ into a crit, instead of 96+ as it is normally. (level 4) Finishing Blow (2/rest): On targets above 49% Endurance left, this will grant a x1.5 damage multiplier as well as a +5 ACC bonus on the attack. Below 49% however, this will convert every % of missing health into added damage on-top of the base damage. The more base damage you can potentially do, the bigger the added damage on low health target. The per rest condition makes it less useful that it sounds sadly, but if you want to bring down a target fast, don't hesitate to pop this just for the ACC bonus and multiplier. (level 5) Riposte (passive): Melee attacks against DEF and Misses have 20% chance to trigger instant, off cool-down, off animation frame full attack (meaning both hands if dual wielding). Sounds really good in theory, but not sure the 20% chance is working properly unless there is a flat miss. (level 6*) Blinding Strike (1/enc): Launches full assault with x1.25 damage multiplier and Blinds target for 10 seconds on normal hit. Blinded state really screwed someone over with -20DEF/REF, -2 Move speed, -4PER and -25 ACC and will allow triggering of Sneak Attacks. Since it's per encounter, spam this at will, just like you'd do Crippling Strike. (level 7) Adept Evasion (passive): +50% Graze to Miss range against attacks going on RED defense. This basically means anything attacking your REF and grazing, will be instead a miss. Pretty massive and very situational but since you'll most likely have a nice REF defense due to PER/DEX boosting, could come in handy. (level 8 ) Deep Wounds (passive): One of the most bull**** abilities, like any raw damage ability. This will make any attack you do causing Slash, Pierce or Crush gain an on hit effect causing Raw Damage over time, basically 3 damage every second for 15 seconds, even if you just grazed for 0.1 damage and whatnot. It also refreshed every hit. While interesting potentially, I really think this should ONLY trigger when you land a critical hit, not ALL the bloody time. This would limit it's crazy damaging effect, especially on your main tanks, while allowing it to properly act as a mean DOT once it actually lands, instead of being constantly refreshed before it can do it's damage. (level 9)* Withering Strike (1/enc): Full attack and x1.25 damage on hit, it'll cause Weakening state as well. This is yet another per enc ability that makes the Rogues annoying (and deadly) micro-management prima-donas. The Weakened state does -20 WILL and FORT, -2 Move and -2 CON/MIGHT and as usual allows for triggering of sneak attacks. (level 10) Coordinated Positioning (2/enc): Another per encounter that allows you to instantly swap position with someone. If it's a friendly, it's automatic, if it's an enemy, there is a REF defense check. Not sure if the check works for now but the ability itself does. The range is very short however, so you won't be swapping places all over the place, however it's quite nice to get in, out or behind enemy lines, or even to swap place with your tank if you need to move him a bit. (level 11) Deathblows (passive): Boost to sneak attack damage multiplier if the target is afflicted by two or more debuffs that should trigger a sneak attack. Yep, bit crazy but there you go. Not 100% sure how the multiplier stacks but it "seemed" to make sneak attacks into a x3 instead of x2 multplier. The concept is there however, more damage on sneak attacks. (level 12) Fearsome Strike (1/rest): Full attack with x1.25 damage multiplier that puts Hobbled and Weakened on target. Why this is per rest as a level 12 ability while everything else is per encounter is beyond me, probably a bug. EXTRA TALENTS Devastating Blows: Could not find much information on this but I'm guessing it changes the Finish Blow ratio very slightly. The fact that you can get this at level 3 while Finishing Blow is level 4 is a bit mind blowing however. Deflecting Assault: This reduces the DEF penalty from -10 to -5 when using Reckless Assault. Woopty ****ing do. Ignore 100%. Vicious Fighting: Adds another +5 Hit to Crit range on-top of the usual 10% from Dirty Fighting, putting your Crit Range at 81%. Take it first, period. Weapon Focus: With Reckless Assault and probably PER bonus, that's another potential +10ACC on top of everything else. Personally, I'd take it before Vicious Fighting if I don't have a Paladin or I want my Paladin to rock the +DT aura instead of ACC. Hold the Line: While cool in theory, you do not want to force anything to "stop and engage" your rogue at any point in time so I'd stay really far away from this one. Defensive Talents: WILL is probably the only one I'd get, simply because I do NOT want my Rogue mind controlled, especially late game (we all know these spider guys will be there to ruin our days like the copycat mindflayers they are). Probably taking this 3rd though with a Priest able to use Prayer of [..] and other Blessings, might not be worth it. Savage Attack: This is one of the rare time when a Modal actually stacks (somewhat) with a class Modal BUT it does in a very odd fashion. What actually happens is that you'll keep the -15ACC and x1.5 Melee damage multiplier from Savage Attack, the -10 DEF, +10 ACC and x1.25 Ranged damage multiplier, but the x1.2 melee damage multiplier from Reckless Assault will be suppressed. Combining both basically gives you -10DEF, -5 melee ACC, +10 Ranged ACC, x1.2 Ranged damage and x1.5 Melee damage. Personally, I don't think it's a good trade but it's up to you. As a note, if you activate Savage Attack THEN Reckless Assault, what is actually suppressed is ONLY the ACC penalty from Savage Attack, and none of the Damage multipliers. This will need re-testing once the stacking suppression system is fixed. Cautious Attack: Here again, rare case where it stacks somewhat, and in a very, very good way. What happens here is that Cautious Attack +15DEF will not only suppress your Reckless Assault -10DEF penalty, but also add itself onto your DEF afterwards, resulting in a net +15DEF gain for a x0.8 attack speed. On fast melee DPS rogues who dual wields, this is a VERY good trade-off, especially if you pumped DEX a bit to offset that. Considering this is a modal, you could just pop it if you want some staying power in the melee pack and even stack DEF even further with the addition of a weapon-set with something like a good small shield. As a note, the fact that you need to activate Reckless Assault THEN Cautious Attack for it to stack up properly might indicate the whole thing is bugged. Envenomed Strike: not worth the cost for only 3 per rest I think. Fast Runner: No visible effect as usual. All in all, the Rogue in itself is a good class that will require a LOT of micro-management to properly use. All his abilities are useful for both Melee and Ranged roles as well, which is a good thing. They are also a heavy micro-management class. with so many per encounter abilities, you'll be pushing buttons almost constantly. They can "perform" when left alone, but really, that's just wasting it. The bad part is that this is the class that defines what's completely broken with the current system. During my tests, I was able to do reliably do 110~ crit hits wielding a base dagger, killing my level 8 tank paladin in 10-15 seconds while he was in full plate and large shield and whatnot. Because effects apply even on graze, once the Rogue gets going, if he's not killing his target instantly, nothing can stop him. With so many per encounter abilities, all being so easy to land (and crit with, since this is the Rogue we're talking about), you'll be locking down/weakening even the toughest enemies like it's nothing. As a note, re-application of an effect will add duration on-top of the existing effect, not just refresh it so nothing's ever wasted and multiple Rogues don't cancel out each other, on the contrary. On top of that, due to his ability to crit and sneak attack, things get out of hand really fast and with proper slow hard hitting weapons, you can pretty much one shot any creature in the beta currently as the multipliers keep stacking up, making any kind of armor being worn irrelevant overall. Added again on top of all this that the Rogue is allowed to use any weapon and armor available in the game (something you don't usually do with classes that can exponentially grow damage wise, because it makes slow hard hitting weapons completely over-powered), and you got a major issue at hand here. Sadly, I don't think simply tweaking a value here and there can solve this problem. The "easiest" way I can think of that would not affect game mechanics or how any other class performs is to limit the weapons available to Rogues to, for example, fast weapons only. This will instantly get rid of crazy damage ramp up and bring down Rogues to a more reasonable level of damage when they don't use abilities as well as make them better against weakly armored targets and less effective against armored targets, which is something that seems in tune for the concept of the class: low damage fast weapons, with incredible critical hit potential and utility (from debuffs). Doesn't solve the problem completely, but rather hides it a bit under the rug. Another way to smooth things over would be to calculate critical hit multipliers after DT calculation, but before DR. This won't make dramatic changes, but will push things to a more acceptable middle ground damage wise. That said, the core problems are not with the Rogue, which is really a good and in itself, balanced class that does it's job...as an Assassin. The core problems are with the combat mechanics as a whole with the whole Graze/Hit/Crit system, which the Rogue just exacerbates because of the class design. Once these are solved, somehow, I think the Rogue class will behave just fine though as it is currently, it just simple breaks the entire combat mechanics, period. As a fun closing note, I tried a run with nothing but Rogues and a Priest, all Orlans but the Priest, who was wood elf. 2 Rogues were my acting tanks, with maxed out INT/RES, in full plate with hatchet, shields and Cautious Attack, Hold the Line 2 Rogues were melee DPS, 1 with Pike, other with dual stilettos (PER/MIG), in leather and Weapon Focus, Savage Attack 1 Rogue was Ranged DPS and debuffer with Hunting Bow (RES/PER), Weapon Focus, Vicious Fighting 1 Priest They pretty much tear **** apart non stop. Rogues make incredible tanks when used properly, with Escape allowing them to position right when they're needed, and their debuffs (especially Blind/Weaken) allowing them to really survive proper. Add onto that their crit potential, damage multipliers, constant sneak attacks, adept evasion and it was one of the best party I've run so far. As usual, try to stick to discussions and comments directly related to the class itself, not so non class related game mechanics. Cheerios.
  2. Well, I stand corrected, there is actually a level 5 Priest spell that boosts MIGHT, PER, DT on a target for a bit. Not self only but heh.
  3. Nah, it just uses it for dynamic scene storage I think in CurrentGame folder. Once you exit the game, content should clear up but during game, it's usually filled up. Folder structure stays but while it's not pretty, it's no big deal in itself, for me at least
  4. Can't say that I have but haven't really tested nor paid attention to it. That said, creates a new character on hard just now and health values seemed fine. Sensuki, you're not using your modified stat .dll right? Just checking
  5. I've been testing runs with "normal" custom parties on hard difficulty lately. First complete run was with this setup: Fighter: hatchet or mace and medium shield with normal plate armor. Paladin: hatchet or mace and medium shield with normal plate armor. Barbarian: quarterstaff and hide armor, spear/small shield as backup. Rogue: hunting bow with leather armor, stiletto/small shield as backup. Priest: Rod with scale armor, mace/small shield as backup. Wizard: Wand with robe, dagger/small shield as backup. All are Orlans (wanted to test their racial) and I did not dump any stats, all being at 10, with their role stats being at 18 or close to it. All started at level 5 exactly. Did not use any dropped items apart from the magical ones or direct upgrades to their base load-outs (ie: exceptional hatchet at some point, better robe, etc). Kept a reasonable Skill distribution, and made sure the entire team had a spread of Stealth as well as a main Skill and some Athletics. Didn't exploit it, but with this setup, you can just sneak up to any mob with the entire team if you want... The run was pretty good actually, especially early on and even without the inflated Health values that sometimes bug out with BB party, adventuring days were decent overall, Health not being a limiting or frustrating factor. Only times where I was forced into rest without any resource reason was because of bugged out things such as infinite stacking stuck buff from spiders, spells not working properly (suppress not working for example) and other things that were clearly bugs. Both party fights (Medreth and Egg bandits) were somewhat decent, requiring me to use some resources and bit of tactics. Egg Bandits fight especially was nice. Blood Legacy fight was cake but think it's because by that point, my guys were pretty buff. Also, Orlan racial works just fine from what I could see and man, unless I'm mistaking when reading log, it's powerful if you got the ACC to back it up and push things over. All in all, without proper mob balancing, things got quickly out of control and some nasty bugs got in the way, but early on, was good fun. Next run I'll probably make an all human team with different class combos, see how that handles. If you want the base save with the party at level 5 and loaded with proper items before anything was done/killed, you'll find it here (just need to put it in your document/saved game/ folder thing with the other saves): LINK
  6. Meh, takes half a second of combat to test the default combat speed and immediately see that it's not right. After that, each of us is on his own really and slow mode or pausing doesn't matter, since it doesn't need any further testing until it's changed, which means a new build. That said, slow mode seems to be an actual planned release feature, and its working decently, so you can actually test how things are with it on.
  7. It's not rocket science. 5 minutes looking up in the code and 5 more testing it gave me most of the answers I needed, which is pretty much what you got as well. Different play-style probably. You also seem to play real time with lots of pauses, I usually do slow time and no pause. Guess that changes how one experience things a bit. Not a problem though, you just might find more DEX use than I do because of it so can adjust to your playstyle.
  8. Yep, that was my point in another thread: Adventuring days feels better because Health is irrelevant meaning survival and need to rest is only based around actual party resource management, and that feels good, only resting when you feel you need to rest based on resources you have left. Next step is to remove Health completely, get rid of Camping Supplies (or remove abstract cap at least) and done and done
  9. Yea I get that bit. Not sure what you do in battle, but my casters are always idle during encounters to make sure that when I need them, they can act instantly. Do you have your wizards and priest auto attack or something? For me, casters are not classes that need more actions per encounter because they are not part of the sustained classes. Melee/Ranged characters who use auto attack constantly are however part of the sustained classes, and that makes more actions per encounter useful. Since I also don't play with "naked" characters, they'll never really go over the recovery threshold, therefore never benefit from an increased casting animation speed. Of course, if you keep them naked then yea, that makes it nice I guess. Parts of it to check it out but I much rather test how it's actually working in game, than debate abstracts removed from everything. I mean it's nice and useful to a point, but the reality is a bit more chaotic and unpredictable than a lab test.
  10. I don't see how it would impact a buff/debuff caster much. It doesn't make you cast faster (edit: I mean, doesn't change how fast your casting/attack animation is or anything from what I could see), it just reduces your recovery time so if you don't chain cast (and I mean really chain cast, as in not a nanosecond wasted anywhere), it's 100% useless. Since most spells are AE and all are resources based, Not many situations where a 16% difference in recovery speed would change much of anything. I mean, you'd really need to be pumping out a lot of buffs/debuffs with perfect timing.
  11. On Melee DPS I agree since you cannot really dump stat or risk having really poor defenses, which is very risky. On Ranged DPS however, you can dump stat a bit here and there to grab 8 more points to put into DEX after your maxed out PER and MIG. All things being equal, that's like a flat 16% DPS boost on auto-attacks no? And provides faster reaction time if you need to use an ability on an auto-attack DPSer, which is pretty nice in itself. If I redo my Support Melee Priest build, this is something that I might actually look into and on Ranged Rogues (not rangers, because of pet putting you at risk), this is definitely worth it I'd say.
  12. Well, we're missing the Range component for now so it's hard to tell. Also not sure how the % speed modifier is applied or calculated. I'll have a look later on, see if I can figure it out. As it stands now, I would put it on DPS classes more than casters though. DPS will get it's bonus constantly during auto-attacks and in theory, it'll help should they need to put out some kind of ability in time. For buff/debuff/healing, it's rare that you need to chain-cast with a character so it's not really that useful I think and since their auto attack damage is irrelevant, you're much better off keeping them idle all the time, ready to cast instantly when you need to, which is probably why they put Range component in there, to make it useful for these guys. Edit: Scratch that, Range is on PER, not DEX. So yea, DEX's a no go for me on casters (Wizard, Healing Priest, etc), just pure DPS and DPS Supports. Edit 2: Seems to be a simple +/- system. First you grab Armor Speed, then +/- character ArmorSpeed modifiers, then +/- Attack Speed modifiers, and that alters your recovery time. So for example. Fighter in plate armor (50% armor speed), with Armored Grace (-16% Armor Speed) and DEX 18 (16% Attack Speed) would give a Recovery Time modifier of 18%, better than padded. And after some testing, that proves correct in game indeed. Soooo yea, pretty good stat actually, especially if you're gonna wear heavy armor, as it just negates it but since it only changes Recovery time, if you don't chain-cast, auto-attack constantly, it's wasted.
  13. Most pure DPS will pump PER and MIG to the max though probably. DEX is neat but not sure I'd put it before these two yet
  14. I'll come around to Paladin's later but while good in a party from what I could see, they just under perform in every category compared to Fighter, and their very limited resources, while nice in very specific situations, do not change that much. Using the same equipment and overall same stat distribution, Paladin just can't tank as well and can't do **** for damage either. They are decent support DPS classes and off-tanks however but really, you only want them for the +ACC aura and the fact that they'll probably have some cool dialog options based on their paladin order As far as Draw Upon Holy Might, it's all AE based, not self. Devotion of the Faithful and Dire Blessing are crazy just now when used in combination but since mobs and encounters are not balanced, it's hard to really judge. Cautious Attack modal is nice too, with it's +15DEF, but I rather grab Weapon Focus and Empowered Interdiction and really, I haven't been able to turn a Priest into a godlike killing machine so far like you could in IE games sometimes. Indeed, Priest spells as they are are quite nice overall and do the job they are meant to pretty well. Mob/Encounter balancing just isn't there though and that makes it hard to really get a feel for what a Priest can offer during a tough battle. We can guess based on what the spells do, but can't really test it yet.
  15. Ok then, my bad Which is somewhat, to me, irrelevant, since you don't know what kind of DEF you'll be facing, what kind of buff you'll have, or debuff they'll have, or if you'll be in range for an aura, or just a meter too far, etc. That's why I consider ACC always better in reality. Sure, in some cases that might not be true, but that just means easy fights will be easy anyway. It's not in itself, I agree. But it stacks the odds in your favor under bad circumstances, which are the cases where you need to perform and overall reduce grazes and boost critical chances. Ok, that's probably the problem then, we're not talking about the same thing. I'm talking actual combat situations with unknown variables, you're talking mathematical balancing between PER and ACC on the attribute page based on an hypothetical ACC/DEF ratio. In which case, putting myself in your view, I 100% agree with you. In reality however, I'll still be pumping PER on every single character that at some point might need to do something on a hostile, then maybe look at MIGHT, because that's what works currently in actual battle. You're right in a vacuum again, but in reality, you do NOT know, that's my point and that's why PER is always better, because you do not know if you're ACC will be greater than their DEF. And one second it might be, another it might not be. A high PER character can perform better in any situation where these variables are unknown, while a high MIG will not. Sure, against a low DEF enemy, it won't matter as much, but even then, PER will still boost your chance to actually hit and critical hit, not graze. If you could respec your characters before every single battle after looking at the exact enemies stats, then yea, you could follow the math and balance out MIG and PER on the fly. But when you create a character at level 1 and need to live with his attributes all the way to level 12, MIG is just too damn risky, while you cannot go wrong with PER, the chance of it being a waste are extremely low. Graze cannot be considered as anything but a somewhat miss from a DPS standpoint though. Only Hits and Critical Hits are meaningful because they usually ensure you'll bypass DT. Support/Utility wise it has some interest, but the 0.5 multiplier to duration and some effects make it a very bad investment for a given daily resource.
  16. Matt, I don't doubt your math as presented whatsoever, but where in this is it factored that ACC is a prerequisite for DAMAGE, while DAMAGE is not a prerequisite for ACC. By that I mean that you need to actually hit for damage to be a factor, while you damage is irrelevant to actually hit. Also, you focus purely on DAMAGE but ACC goes way, way beyond that. Discussing this whole MIGHT, PER thing in a total vacuum is great and all, but you need to take the whole system into account here and while they are too many variables for me to properly present a nice and easy formula that could convince you, the fact is: PER outshines MIGHT on every single level. You could cut in half PER ACC bonus and double MIGHT bonus, it would still outshine MIGHT simply because it's what's allowing you to do anything in the first place, not just damage, and with a linear curve d100 system where you have as much chance to roll a 100 or a 1, talents converting hits into crits and the like, anything that stacks the odds in your favor is more powerful than any other derivative. Most pure DPS classes will max out both, so most of this discussion is irrelevant anyway, but there you go. All in all, if you're paralyzed from the neck down, it doesn't matter that you have a 12" ****, while if you're not paralyzed, any size will do the job just fine, is what I'm saying
  17. Gonna have to wait and see the DEX + range % boost to judge but yea, lots of spells have absurdly small ranges :/ I think it's to artificially limit pre-igniting.
  18. Pretty much. Mutonizer had written that he was wiping out entire encounters with a 4 man rogue party armed with arbalests. I really do think Sneak Attack is due for a nerf. It is crazy OP at the moment. They need to make the conditions needed to setup a Sneak Attack a little more challenging to arrange. Issue isn't with sneak attack mechanics I think, but what's underneath, mainly a multiplicative damage modifier system with dynamic critical hit ranges combined with a static DT system applied after said multiplication and no weapon restriction per classes. DR helps a bit after that though but not enough to be a factor here, apart from being a "wee bit less one shot" at best. It's not the only culprit but there is a reason you don't give big slow hitting weapons to classes like rogues usually, and that reason is to prevent extremes from happening. Sadly, you cannot turn the balancing simply around weapons either, since if you do that, you'll punish classes without the same amount of multiplicative modifiers and boosted critical hit ranges (Fighters, Barbarians, etc). That leaves you with what we have currently: a very unstable combat system, with extremes on both sides, creating experiences where one player will take 5 minutes per battle, while another will wipe clean encounters in 5 seconds flat, looting included. Limiting weapon use might be a good and easy (coding wise) start toward stabilization. Once you leave big hitters into the hands of linear combatants only (meaning ones that can hit reliably, but without that much damage multipliers), you can have barbarians, paladins and fighters doing a decent average with these. Then you have rogues with fast, low damage, specialized weapons, who rely on tons of multiplicative modifiers and situational factors to push their damage upward. On a normal day they'll be slightly below the linear combatants but on a good day (meaning good positioning, debuffs and whatnot), they'll be above DPS wise because things starts stacking up and for them, it's exponential growth. That would, after some balancing, bring back two core DPS concepts: sustained and spiked. Other than that, applying crit multipliers after DT reduction might also streamline damage slightly I think, but in itself won't solve the problem either. Reducing DT per damage type variance could be another step to prevent extremes maybe, not sure. Making graze/critical chances fixed values based only on the d100 roll would probably also help in streamline things a bit, allowing "normal not min maxed" characters to do a somewhat decent job on average, while still granting specialized characters the ability to hit more reliably or just harder, just not critical hit. Then you add a couple of talent/class abilities here and there to give some variance to the fixed critical values (especially for classes like Rogues and Rangers who might be considered Spiked DPS), and other to reduce them (Fighers, Paladins) or even ignore them totally (Barbarian rage or something, ignoring any crits for a period of time) and you can still have a stable combat system, less punishing for the "unaware" while still interesting and not extremes yet still somewhat rewarding for the "aware". But that's a lot of things...and I could be wrong on many counts. The reality is however: Combat is extremely unstable as it is and slightly tweaking a value here and there will not solve that I fear.
  19. Flanking mechanic is there but a bit buggy currently. However, from what I understand concept is that each mob has a number of potential engages maximum around him, and once that number is surpassed, he'll the flanked affliction, which will be effective for everyone targeting him at this point. So it's called "flanked" but really it's just more "overwhelmed" by attackers and positioning doesn't matter whatsoever.
  20. Well, they do what they're designed for, mostly. It's already clear that PoE will have no utility spells whatsoever, nor any buffing mechanic other than short term and combat only. Once you accept that (and since we're closing on October already, it's about time to accept **** you don't like and move on), there's little left really. Personally I wouldn't mind some kind of "self boost" spell/ability to help turn the Priest into a little beefier melee dude, maybe a modal of some kind, as well as some kind of active concentration based spells (meaning they keep pulsing as long as you don't interrupt/stop them/do something else) but other than that, not sure what they could add. If you got realistic and within context suggestions, feel free I'd say Didn't bother much that much during testing, Priest still pretty good at it's core role despite the changes.
  21. I usually pick the one that looks fine to me personally and tend to ignore racials and whatnot, favoring look and feel over gameplay advantages. Just listing them because...reasons but they're not really that powerful overall, though Orlan and Wild elf ones stand out in my opinion.
  22. Yea, my 1 paladin, 4 arbalest rogues, 1 chanter party pretty much one shotted 3-4 mobs on each engagement first second. Didn't play that group for a complete run through though and it's probably very unstable if you can't control the engagement and a bit boring (personal preferences probably) Loved my 1 paladin, 4 fighters, 1 chanter though. Less brutal on the first second of engagement but really stable, low maintenance and still very brutal especially once you turn up the Savage Attacks. That said, mobs are not balanced for the current mechanics of the game so while it's fun, I prefer testing among characters only, mixing up stats and items loadouts. Mob bashing just too cake walk for now.
  23. Sorry, maybe should clarify a bit but can't edit, I'll keep it in mind for other reviews. Overall it just means that the human racial bonus are not really relevant to this class specifics roles/abilities/etc.
  24. disclaimer: All the information below was collected during BB301 in an enclosed environment and tests were conducted between characters only using all weapons and armor available in the beta. Monster balance is therefore irrelevant. Due to some lack of details on some mechanics as well as poorly detailed tool-tips, I probably got a couple things wrong as well. This is also just me testing **** with the tools we have available (and simple modding to make it easier to recruit adventurers). I also could only do level 1 to 7 reliably, but should be a good start. I ran tests with all classes to get a good feel for them before judging each class individually, and I plan on trying to do more class specific reviews under similar conditions as time allows. Note: I considered 2 main roles here: Support Priest and Healer Priest. Support Priest will be very close or in the battle, in melee with the others, usually wearing heavier armor for protection. They cast a lot of control/offensive spells and support spells on friendlies nearby. Healer Priest will be in the back, wearing light armor and spending most of their time idling, never attacking, so that when they need to cast a heal or buff, they'll be able to instantly react. RACES Human: Irrelevant overall Aumaua: Coastal as usual is nice but situational, Island can be interesting as it should make the Priest move around faster, but the bonus is so small, it's hardly a factor. Dwarf: Somewhat irrelevant though Boreal might be nice for Wilders and Primordials since these might be tougher opponents with higher defenses, so 15 ACC boost might offset that, making these probably tougher fights a bit easier if you're going Support Priest. Elf: Pale elf is irrelevant but Wood elf in theory is awesome. Very hard to test properly though and not yet sure if it's working. Orlan: Not bad but not great. Godlike: Irrelevant ATTRIBUTES MIG isn't that great, even on pure healer priests. The effect on ticking heals is minimal at best, while the effect on larger heals is decent, it's a lot of attribute points just for that and I think there are other, better attributes to raise. CON is somewhat useless, but as usual, don't dump DEX is very nice for support priest as it allows you to react faster even when you're doing something else (melee, etc) as well as allow you to cast spells at a distance, even when locked into engagement range (once the range bonus is implemented). However, pure healer priest who stand idle and in the back most of the time will not find much use in DEX, not even with the range bonus, since you'll usually have the freedom to move around and far from the melee pack and possible engagement swaps, allowing you to easily re-position, unlike a Support Priest. PER is nice as usual for it's flat bonus to ACC, which helps land your spells. I'd max this out first for support priests, can ignore for healer priests. INT is nice with the new AE sizes for spells on the priest, often making it much easier to grab a couple more of your guys within the AE rather than just one or two. Offensively the gain is ok, but defensively, it's quite good. RES is very good with 40% boost duration at 18 RES. I'd raise this just after PER if you're support, after INT if you're pure heal All in all: Support Priest: Max out PER first, then either DEX or RES. INT is nice as well, but points are just lacking. I wouldn't dump stat on Support Priest because you might need all your defenses since you'll be much closer to the actual fight and might get cast on or otherwise engaged/attacked. Healer Priest: INT and RES is all you need here, then maybe some in MIG if you got left overs but I'd personally go PER instead, just in case you want to cast a couple control/offensive spells and a bit more chances to land a crit empowered interdiction. You can dump stat a little since Healer Priest will be far from harm most of the time. Personally, I'd dump DEX and CON a bit to get some more MIG or PER. CORE ABILITIES (level 1) Holy Radiance: One of the best "oh **** heals" simply because it has a very, very short casting animation compared to the others and almost no recovery frames. The heal itself is not awesome, but it's a decent AE. If suddenly **** hits the fan, click this first, then see what you else can do. (level 1) Interdiction: Use all the time ability, but use properly as well. This massive AE spell on a per encounter system will stack up Dazed status on everything it touches though for a short duration, especially since you'll probably just graze (5 seconds on graze overall) without Empowered version. However, the slower attack speed and penalty to ACC on both ranged and melee attacks it causes is pretty awesome and actually works on all abilities as well. It also ignores friendlies. Overall, wait a couple seconds after engagement for combat to stabilize a bit, then pop this out on melees. If you're going against ranged/casters, pop this out as your other guys rush forward to reduce chance of anything landing before you reach them. SPELLS (level 1) Armor of Faith: The DT gain is universal, which is nice and with a decent RES, it's 21s duration isn't bad either. Overall a good spell to stabilize a fight going a bit haywire, and it's radius, even unboosted by INT, should cover a melee pack nice and easy. (level 1) Barbs of Condemnation: For a level 1 spell, it has decent damage though the penalties to defense are lackluster for it's duration. Even with boosted RES, this will barely last 7 seconds on a graze and then the penalties will be really small. This is however the only Priest finisher spell at this level, so when you really need to speed things up, might be good, if lucky. (level 1) Blessing: Very good defensive spell (+10 to all defenses) with decent duration (22 seconds on 18 RES). If you're going against casters or mobs that can trigger effects (poison, etc), it's duration and AE size make it one of the best in my book at any level. (level 1) Divine Terror: Despite it's small AE size and the fact that you'll only get a grazing effect most of the time (making it duration 11 seconds on a 18RES, though crit make it 33 seconds), it's useful for one thing: -10ACC on targets and this seems to affect everything, from melee/ranged attacks, to spell checks, to control checks, poison, etc. Decent for level 1 though, all in all, I'd really cast Blessing instead of this. (level 1) Halt: Somewhat useful to control someone, but where this really comes into play is to quickly kill a target. Even on a graze the -20DEF/REF stands unchanged and if you have a couple of big hitters ready for this, then pop up their big damage abilities and unleash. Remember however that it's just a root type spell, the target is not actually paralyzed and will hit back. However, combine this with other -DEF abilities (such as Fighter KD) and critical hits will start popping up like candies at Christmas. (level 1) Holy Meditation: It's hard to get hard data on interrupts mechanics, but Blessing seems better in every way. (level 1) Prayer against Fear: Blessing is once again better and durations are about the same (just couple seconds difference really). Add to that a ridiculously small AE and I have no idea why anyone would ever use this spells unless you REALLY want to stack up defenses against Fear or something. (level 1) Restore Minor Endurance: Decent and fast to cast healing spell. Does it's job just fine all in all (level 1) Withdraw: This is your get out of jail free card for anyone who needs saving in a rush. Fast to cast, somewhat long duration, it'll make sure whoever you need saved, is saved. Or regular difficulties, unless you really mess up an engagement and one of your weakling is suddenly surrounded by tons of nasties, you probably won't be needing this much. On Trial of Iron however, I foresee this being a game changer, allowing you to recover from catastrophic mistakes very easily, especially since the IA currently is dumb as nails and will most likely keep hittig the impenetrable barrier, allowing your other guys to bash their heart content. (level 3) Consecrated Grounds: This long lasting (43 seconds on 18 RES) heal over time zone is quite decent and should keep everyone topped off nice and easy. The ticks are about 4 seconds apart so while it will not keep a weak/lightly armored character under heavy fire alive, it'll free your priest and allows him to do something else. Especially nice for Support Priest in the melee, since once that spell is cast, you got a nice 40 seconds free time ahead of you to bash heads in peace. (level 3) Divine Mark: While the damage is interesting in itself, what really makes this shine is the -25DEF for a decent duration. Like all DEF debuffs, prepare your entire team to make use of this time-frame to focus fire like crazy. Best way to do this usually is to cancel all actions on them, cast the spell, then order attack once it lands. (level 3) Holy Power: Good spell for long attrition fights though it's a shame that it's RES bonus and not PER bonus. That said, with a very long duration (almost 90 seconds on a 18RES), pop this one out if you're going against mobs with high DT, and it'll help a wee bit. As a note, it seemed to bug out and not actually cast properly quite a bit however during my tests. (level 3) Iconic Projection: Handy quick to cast healing and damaging spell. The heals are the same as level 1 Minor Heal but it'll affect everything in it's path on a much wider scale than the visual effects would make you think. From what I could see, you got a good 2m on each side of the path that will be affected, which is really cool. It's casting range (4m) makes this awesome for Support Priest, but a bit risky for Healer priest as you'll need to get really close to enemies to position yourself properly, risking getting an engagement swap on the way. (level 3) Instill Doubt: Long duration, smaller radius Interdiction. If you like one, you'll like the other. Sadly, you cannot boost it's ACC from talents like you can for Interdiction, and Interdiction is per encounter, this one per rest. (level 3) Prayer against Infirmity: Long duration but very specific. Like Prayer against Fear, Blessing is better as a base, then you only pop this one out against specific foes. (level 3) Repulsing Seal: Hard to test the Seals properly. Sadly, you'll probably just Graze at best on this and it's only useful if the AI is completely retarded. I'd rather have a good AI, than this spell be useful...so there. Range is also very short though it does not seem to affect friendlies, making it somewhat interesting for Support Priest, especially if you're ready to stack up other DEF penalties then gang up. (level 3) Restore Light Endurance: 50 END heal, fast cast. It's a heal... (level 3) Suppress Afflictions: Decent spell because of it's AE size, but duration is really short, it has a bloody long cast time and is very situational. That said, if you get your entire party rooted away from where you want to be, pop this one out and re-position before the root resumes it's effects. For poisons and the like, I'd pop a quick Holy Radiance, then this, then triage among who needs what during the suppression. For single target big nasties (pertrification, etc) I'd just pop a withdraw really, so not that great here, though if the mobs are nearly dead, Suppress Affliction will help finish that fight in good health in peace. (level 5) Circle of Protection: Combat only slightly improved Blessing, with shorter duration. Unlike Blessing however, it's treated as a Hazard, which means it'll be a fixed area and not an actual buff. You enter it, you get the buff, you leave, you lose it. It's nice, and it stacks with Blessing, but for a level 3 spell that is a fixed area, I'd like longer duration personally. (level 5) Despondent Blows: Ok, this is one is pretty groovy. Really long duration and effects are variables, which means on a graze they'll suck a bit, but on a crit, they'll be massive. 65 seconds -22ACC and +22% crittohit chance means whoever's affected by this won't bother you whatsoever for the rest of the fight usually. The size of the AE isn't that good, but it ignores friendlies so a Support Priest can pop this one in the melee easy enough, and affect most involved mobs. Sadly, as with most Priest spells, you'll rarely get anything but a Graze at best against the mobs you really need to use this against. If you can somehow debuff the targets WILL defense before casting this, do so, every little bit helps. (level 5) Dire Blessing: This one is a bit crazy especially with current DT mechanics. It has a very good duration and it's AE size easily grabs all your DPS if done right. +20% hit to crit bonus is good in itself, but on Fighters and Rogues (or anything with already high ACC or the same kind of boost), this is just crazy talk. Nothing can survive this as it stands currently and you'll be left wondering wtf happened to all the mobs that were there a moment earlier. On DPS that can't hit however, this is utterly useless. (level 5) Pillar of Faith: I could have sworn this had some kind of KD effect before, but it seems to be lacking now. The base damage is good and it's against REF so you can try to prep up with other abilities before using this (ie: Halt) but the Priest is somewhat ill suited for pure damage abilities because the risk of missing/grazing vs the cost of such a high resource is just too high in my opinion. Other DPS can do just as much damage more reliably. (level 5) Prayer against Restraint: Usual with Prayers, good for stacking up on a Bless/Circle of Protection, but very situational. Suppress Affliction is a surer way to handle Stuck I think though this has a good duration. (level 5) Restore Moderate Endurance: Yet another upgrade to heals and as with the others, it'll usually cap out any non high END party member. (level 5) Warding Seal: Hard to test again, but just as with Pillar of Faith, I have issues with pure damage no utility spells on a Priest, simply because it's not reliable due to low ACC. Damage is pretty good though, even on a graze it'll hurt a bit. (level 5) Watchful Presence: This spell is awesome, period. At the level you'll be getting it, it's a nearly guaranteed full heal to everyone affected by it (and radius is really large) the moment they should collapse from Endurance loss. There is no duration, target number limitation or anything like that either. It'll vanish soon as you leave combat however, so be careful if you got dots still running on some characters. (level 7) Barring Death's Door: Any damage that should cause Health death (not Endurance) will just be ignored for the duration. However, this spell bugs out currently, with characters surviving after this spell is triggered just stop being usable until you rest (can't even select them). Situational, but in a Trial of Iron run, probably want to save a spell slot for this baby (level 7) Devotion of the Faithful: One of the these spells that just breaks the game currently. Long duration INSANE boost to everyone in a large enough radius while also putting insane debuffs on all enemies. Nothing can survive until this spell ends, period. This affects spells and abilities too btw. Combine this with Dire Blessing and you'll be spending the next hour looking for tissues to clean up all the gibs splattered around on your screen. (level 7) Prayer against Bewilderment: Same old, same old. Situational. (level 7) Restore Major Endurance: Bigger heal that heals more. Progression on heals seems on par with Endurance progression overall as this will, as with all heals relative to when you get them, cap out your average END ratio classes. (level 7) Searing Seal: Ok, now we're talking big numbers AND effects? 100 base burn damage and Blinding effect makes this thing really nasty. For your Priest, it "can" be somewhat nice to use, but if you ever see that cast by an enemy, you do NOT want to step in it as a crit might just insta kill anyone without Above average END ratio and even a graze will leave you blind for a really long time. (level 7) Shining Beacon: Another spell that falls victim to the current combat mechanics. Awesome in potential, this spell is actually useless on anything with some burn DT. The base tick damage is about 14 and with most armors apart from padded and hide, you won't feel this one much. With Padded and Hide, it tickles and you'll probably need to do throw a heal somewhere. On someone naked, it'll empty you healing resources just to try and keep them alive through the duration. This spell does 300 burn damage over a period of time and is not modified by graze/crit hit factors, only by DT. 300 damage is 3x your average END character at the level you'll be getting it AND it persists beyond collapse, only being suppressed by it, which means the moment your downed guy gets back up, this spell will tick again. The penalities vary with graze/crit but really that's not the point of this spell but if you can lower burn DT on a target, it's godlike. If you can't, it's near useless. (level 7) Triumph of the Crusaders: Long duration full heal on target death for the character who gets the kill. It's interesting and with some INT, the radius is big enough to grab all your melee guys. If you got fast but weak killers, probably don't even need a tank with this on though it's probably best used when fighting large amount of mobs, or when your DPS characters need to go in the back rows of the enemy lines, far from your Priest support/healing powers. EXTRA TALENTS Untroubled Faith: No idea, can't really test it proper. Empowered Interdiction: +20ACC (!!) on your Interictions. This is a massive must. Painful Interdiction: Does nothing whatsoever as far as I could test it. Well it bugs out Interdiction actually, but very weirdly. Need to check again once fixed. Weapon Focus: If you're a support Priest, it'll allow you to participate a bit more in melee. Otherwise, just ignore. Hold the Line: Nope... Defensive Talents: +10 to a specific type of Defense. Can be nice to up a defense that is low due to a dump stat, but otherwise, not really worth it when there are other goodies around and so few talent points. Savage Attack: Nope, Empowered Interdiction and Weapon focus are more useful here. Cautious Attack: Good for any Priest but especially good on Support Priest. +15 DEF will help a lot should you get focused while in melee. Sadly, not many talent points... Envenomed Strike: Useless. Fast Runner: Tested a couple races but this doesn't seem to do anything noticeable and didn't see any button to trigger it. Personally I'd convert this into a per rest ability, granting a big speed boost, but we'll see once it's working/fixed. Priests, like Fighters, are common cornerstone of any given party. All in all, also like Figther, they are pretty well designed and balanced, with interesting all around buffs, good healing capabilities, no real dump stat and a couple very handy utilities. Most of the Priest spells are solid for the roles he can take, though his low base ACC and DEF can be an issue if you want to involve him a bit more into the action but even then, it's highly unlikely that he'll be in any real danger unless you're running low on spell slots for the day. Managing your animation frames, casting time and recovery time properly is key however so the Priest can be much more high maintenance than the Fighter. Pure Healer roles are what the Priest excels at, no surprise there since it's the most reliable mechanic, disconnected from any random factors. Hanging in the back with light or medium armor, never taking any action and ready to react instantly to anything that needs doing. I personally would not recommend auto attacking with a Healing Priest because not only he will participate very little damage wise, but you'll also lock him into recovery states constantly and the last thing you want from a healer, is to be locked for these crucial couple seconds when a heal is needed or an enemy spell is about to be cast on your entire melee pack. Sadly, and it's a common issue with Healer Priest, the better you'll do as a team, the less he'll be of any use. Personally I consider them like condoms: Best to have one and not need it, than need it and not have one. Support Priest role is a bit harder to handle, but much more fun, especially if the Priest is your main dude. With Weapon Focus, Cautious Attack as backup modal, an aura or two to boost ACC, a fast weapon and some decent armor, he'll be right there when you need a little buffing, dps, control or group heal. I'd recommend just a small shield and fast 1hd (stiletto was nice overall), but reach 2 weapons are a good option there, allowing proximity and safety. The main downside is that unlike the Healer Priest, he'll be much less able to react to sudden damage spikes/combat events and you'll have to wait for his recovery to be done with to do anything. To good thing however is that he'll be able to really stay close and therefore able to use his short range abilities properly. In most of my early runs, I used Healer Priest types, focusing only on buffs and heals, ignoring anything hostile simply because the ACC wasn't there, making casting offensively a risk with dubious reward at best. However, I tried a couple runs with Melee focused Support Priests (mostly stileto/rapier/flail and light shield) and he was allowed to contribute more. Iconic Projection was my usual goto ability then as it's perfect for Priest who stand in the middle of it all. Sadly, taking Weapon Focus and Cautious Attack meant no Empowered Interdiction (something I always take on my Healer Priest and is usually the only offensive ability they use). Due to it's per encounter system, I'd ignore Cautious Attack (never really needed it) and grab Empowered Interdiction instead next time around. I'd also stay away from ranged weapons because of their long recovery time though I did not try wands and rods. All in all, great, powerful class currently and will probably remain so even after mob re-balancing. It's highly functional in either Role I tried, though if you plan on using offensive abilities/debuffs, you'll usually want to make sure you max out PER, grab every little bit of ACC you can and plan things around getting grazes duration at best, as hits/crits on any spell other than a boosted interdiction might be rare. As with the Fighter, this is mainly a thread to talk Priest.
  25. The math doesn't lie, but as I said, you're forgetting variables such as DT and graze/crit multipliers, which are applied before DT calculation, making ACC even more important. You're also considering only a pure DPS standpoint which is exactly why MIGHT is sub par compared to PER, because it ONLY affects DPS (or heal but that's not the issue here) whereas PER helps with everything targeting hostiles, which in turn (for abilities, etc) can boost your DPS skyhigh. With the mechanics as they are now, the damage potential is less important than the potential to hit/crit, as anything else will just make damage potential a non factor due to DT. As I said, the ONLY scenario where ACC stops being useful is when you reach a ACC > DEF +100 (95 or whatever your hit to crit ratio and other factors changes that value and that's applicable to all abilities/attacks targeting hostiles while damage potential stops being useful the second you can't hit/crit or are dealing with non damaging abilities. All in all, if you take MIG and PER in the their own little corner, separate from everything else, you're most likely right. But once you factor in everything, PER destroys MIG on every level, for every class and ACC is king, period. Edit: Just to put things into extremes to make a point. If you have 1000000 Might but can't bypass my fighter's DEF, he'll laugh at you all day. If you have 1000000 Per, my fighter will die in seconds as long as the damage potential is still around his armor DT (currently, that's pretty much everything).
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