Vok

Your lack of self-awareness is simply magical. Its funny how you claim to be able to see the similarities in other movements, just somehow not in Social Justice where you have people outright stating that they are better people because they think they have the moral highground. Right off the bat you start off with a lot of assumptions and casually drop the Powerword: Misogyny like it still means something. What is its misogynistic agenda? No really, tell me, I am super curious about it. What misogynists? What the hell are you even talking about? There is a fair share of feminists within the movement. Heck, there is even Prof. Hoff Sommers there, a known feminist who sides with Gamergate but I already can tell that you will drop the NO TRUE SCOTSMAN because she happens to disagree with 3rd Wave Feminism. Once again I cant tell if you are just making **** up as you go or if you are really this blatantly ignorant. Please explain to me how you can watch this and still ramble on about a supposed "misogynistic agenda"? There is probably more diversity and equality in GG than there is in your holier-than-thou Social Justice Movement and all you can do is paint them all as misogynist? How far up your own ass are you actually? What about Matt Taylor? What about Brad Wardell? What about Larry Correia? Matt Taylor was wearing the wrong T-Shirt, tell me he was asking for it, I dare you. Never mind that the man landed a goddamn probe on a goddam asteroid. Brad Wardell was medially crucified by the Social Justice crowd after an ex-employee who got laid of decided to make up stuff about him. Of course no one cared that she later issued a public apology for her made up claims, people still call him a harasser and a rapist. Larry Correia, part of sadpuppies, simply raised awareness about the clique-ish-ness of the Sci-Fi/Fantasy literature circle where people expect you to have the politically correct opinion or they exclude you. He currently gets called a conservative, a rightwinger, a white supremacist and a racist despite being married to a black woman for 20 years. So how are you making the world a better ,more tolerant place again? Social Justice has been hijacked by nutjobs like the person who complained about this joke in the first place and yet you are still in denial. You are not fighting for inclusiveness. You are not fighting for diversity. And you sure as **** are not fighting for tolerance. In the first place I find it absolutely disgusting that you once again your high-horse where you think that this or that group of people need to be defended by you like they are incapable of doing it on their own. Yet you still refuse to see anything wrong with your worldview. Polygon is where diversity comes to die. It is to game journalism what FoxNews and MSNBC are to Journalism in general. Yet. They did however have articles how killing female NPCs is misogyny which I think you and me will agree is a load of horse****. You going down the assumption road again? Dis gon b gud. . And I think you are 7 squirrels in a wizard-robe. So basically you are saying that there is no vocal minority of loud extremists within Social Justice but that SocJus in general is completely all right with #KILLALLMEN. Only a few paragraphs back you said that this wasn't the case. Huh. Good to know that Inclusiveness works by shaming and excluding people who have the wrong opinion. I will just assume that you are not as dense as you present yourself to be but a rather just young and uninformed. Me, however, I can see how you are to young to understand that Equality and Diversity are concepts that don't mix well together. If you were a smarter little bugger you would notice that for your EQUALITY!-goal you are already sacrificing diversity of opinion and shouting it down as intolerance, misogyny and transphobia. At some point even you yourself will probably notice that to every sane, rational person American Social Justice looks anti-intellectual and full of bigotry. Oh and let me leave you with this little gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlajdEapQLo

I legitimately cant tell if you dont know how to present an argument or if it is such a rambling unrelated mess by calculation. This is true when it comes to facts. Your feelings are not facts. His feelings are not facts either. What you try once again is claim that it is a FACT that the joke was somehow magically transphobic. Without any kind of poor or confirmation you are arguing that as it ifs a well-known fact. Get of your high horse for ****s sake. "It made me feel offended" is not any kind of argument and never will be. Either elaborate why you think its sexist/transphobic whatever or shut up about it. Dont make up facts when you feel like it. Oh well thank god the ministry of fun is among us to tell us what kind of things we are allowed to make fun of and what dont. So how about jokes about children? How about jokes about disabled children? I am baffled that I actually have to explain to someone that a joke is just that: a joke. Humour. It doesn't cast anyone in a negative light on anyone because it is not serious. Its like on your quest for social justice you completely and unironically lost the ability to tell reality from fiction. And the worst part about this is that you are actually argu-. no, rambling, how this is the right state of mind to be in and how it makes the world better. I am just flabbergasted. I dont even. This is why you are a humongous hypocrite while at the same time clamouring for "equality". First off: Never once did I say the Nazi-Sympathizers is offended about their opinion. But if you want to make it more similar to the actual case: Lets assume that said Nazi is offended by the implied euthanasia of newborn/hollowborn in the game and demands it changed. Will you still say that "It doesn't matter because even a broken clock is right twice a day"? "Its really about equality guys, some people are just more equal than others!" Well yes it is. Just like it laughable that people listen to a bigot who wants to kill all men about being offended. And this is even more laughable. Not tolerating intolerance IS intolerance. How did that get past you? See the difference between me and CHORFs (Cliquish, Holier-than-thou, Obnoxious, Reactionary, Fanatic) like you is that even if someone has view that I deem harmful or intolerant or uneducated, I still think that he has a right to have it. Its when people start saying we need to remove or change content "for the greater good" is when things start going south. Thats a very poultry-phobic thing to say. How are they not marginalised? You even went as far to dehumanize poultry in your same sentence! You don't even see them as people! Millions of chicken and ducks get killed and consumed everyday and they don't even enjoy the basic rights that your housecat has.

I love how you still haven't answered to any argument I presented to you. How and why is that irrelevant. Explain it to me. What I see there is a literal bigot complaining about being offended by a joke. Yet you completely disregard that because it caters to your crowd. Something that I have seen massively increasing from people in favour of Social Justice. You remember Jian Ghomeshi? No? Jian Ghomeshi was a Radio Showhost, was big in this Social Justice Thing about the evil PATRIARCHY and RAPE CULTURE since he majored in Womens Studies. So guess what happened when suddenly a women came forward with rape allegations against him. Just as expected the Social Justice crowd started to attack these allegations and the rape-victim because Jian was part of the Social Justice Movement and non-white. Too bad more and more women came forward with similar stories about being coerced by Jian to sexual acts against their will. I think the current count is 14 people. So you see, your argument and you seem disingenuous since I bet my ass that if it was a Nazi-Sympathizer being offended by something you would just laugh or shrug it off. Does a joke were a chicken crosses the street abhor poultry? Does it promote animal abuse? No? Then why does this one promote intolerance against transsexuals. Once again: Are we talking about the same movement who managed to kick the biggest achievement in space exploration in this century and make it about a damn T-Shirt? We are talking about the same movement right? I cant tell if you are either so removed from reality that you don't see that Social Justice is on its way to becoming a full-fledged cult where dissenters and disbelievers (LISTEN AND BELIEVE) get attacked for having the wrong views. Or if you are simply okay with Social Justice operating that way because "its for the greater good". Once again I think you should read "The Wave" if you haven't done so in school, it may be an eye-opener about thinly-veiled fascistoid movements.

Plainly because Intel, Microsoft's and HP's products aren't art. Processors and operating systems are utilities and I don't care about them. Those products are inherently neutral. How can you pack progressive ideology into a processor? Games I do care about, games are art. Therefore I will defend them from triggerhappy censors. I don't hate Obsidian, I just regret their choice. Okay, except that there's no reasonable argument that will define an ad created by Intel (a photograph which was planned out and edited to achieve the desired end product, with a bit or writing involved as well) as not being art, but will define a little poem made by a backer as art. Again, you're just singling this out and labeling it as art because it supports your agenda to do so. If Intel is "censoring" their ads so as not to offend people, then how is that better than Obsidian asking a backer if he wants to change his poem so as not to deal with people getting offended? Do you see how inconsistent that is? Because the backer really shouldn't have put Obsidian into this position - it goes without saying that anything the Backers wrote to place in the game should not have been controversial in any way. Anything else is abusing the system. Obsidan are a business. They have to act in order to protect their reputation. The fault clearly lies with the backer. And as far as I can make out, Obsidan bent over backwards to mollify him, which they probably shouldn't have done. Put it this way, freedom of speech is not unlimeted, you can walk into a park and shout out your views regardless of how offensive they are are. However you do not have the right to behave in such a manner if you are on private property. It's like someone pissing in your lounge. The person or business clearly has the right to boot you out. Also from an ethical side, why should you be allowed to put your offensive views into someone elses game? If Obsidan had done this themselves it would be another issue - they clearly have the right to be offensive if they want. They didn't and they have responded in the correct manner. In what position? Who the hell would have anticipated that some special snowflake who decided that the grass is greener on the other side and now projects his self-loathing and self-hate against other men would be offended by that? Because that's the kind of person that was offended by this joke. At best he/she/it/xir is opportunistic and craving for attention at worst a biggot. It is just a joke. Simply as that. Joke are allowed to offend people. Jokes are allowed to be politically incorrect. This joke however wasn't even that. What I am salty about is Outrage-Culture banning everything they deem offensive. It is simply mind-boggling to me as east-european how people who grew up in countries who always has freedom of speech and opinion like america jump at the chance to censor dissenting opinions.

These two things are not mutually exclusive, though. Except, to be real for a second, we saw it happen. In real time. And we have also seen, in the very same context, that this did nothing to lessen the perceived insult to the perpetually offended. As for those who were offended by the joke in the first place, those of them who are still offended and talk about never supporting Obsidian again are equally ridiculous of course. Both of those groups are the perpetually offended Only one these groups however turned being offended into an Artform and managed to make a grown man who just landed a probe on a comet in space cry and apologize on Television for wearing a shirt made by his female friend. You tell me if those groups still sound the same to you.

Don`t know what you are smoking that you get that impression. Just because I think they dropped the ball by listening to a bigot being offended on twitter doesn't suddenly make their games bad retroactively. I do think they make great games. I do think that their games probably have some of the best writing in video games currently. I will continue to support to Obsidian not because of those or that political views, but because they made good games in the past that entertain me and continue to do so. I like the questions PoE poses. I am however dismayed that their PR reacted the way it reacted. I am disappointed that reacting to outrage culture was more important than actually having a conversation with the fan-base about it. I am disappointed that Obsidian has no problem tackling really ambiguous and difficult topics but when someone claims they are "Transphobes" for not controlling what this or that backer wrote it they opted to change it so quickly. I am aware that some things in the PR-Handbook cant not really be applied anymore, especially if you see the SocJust-Troops shaming everything and everything for views, beliefs or content. Obsidian did however choose to give in to a bigot instead of having faith in your fanbase and your backers. Lets face it: SocJus will never be happy no matter how much you apologize and prostrate yourself. SocJus will always look to be offended about something.

Of course someone like you would call me a troll. After all defamation is way easier than engaging in a debate. Personally I am great fan of how you did not address any of the points I provided but went straight to trying to silence discourse. Actually, please do educate me , someone who grew up in a communistic sowjet satellite state on oppression. It will surely involve a lot of laughter about your lack of self-awareness.

I will go out on a limb here and claim that YOU are the one who needs an epiphany or two. You sweep into this thread, probably before even bothering to read through in defense of the poor folks that get OFFENDED and triggered by jokes. That some great proof you have there. A joke being bad or you not liking a joke does not making it offensive. You pretending that it is a fact, again, does not make it so. In fact, if you actually read through this thread you would have seen the majority of posters are baffled at how much of a sensitive special snowflake you have to be to be offended by it. Clearly we also need to examine jokes about chickens crossing the streets, those are chock-full of animal abuse! But seriously, stop being silly. I know that Social Justice Warriors love to read A LOT into harmless things but you are just being silly now. What kind of stereotype is promoted if the very person offended by that tweets to kill all men repeatedly? Would you agree with me to call this person a bigot? Or will you just shrug it off claiming that the anecdotal evidence we have for the offended person in question to be a nut-job can be ignored? Which on the other hand would make you a hypocrite. Wow, how is that for an epiphany, bro? So people making any kind of politically incorrect joke turns them into sexist bigot rapists? Maybe there are not "deeper implications". Maybe for people a joke is just a joke, not a sociopolitical statement. But of course that is impossible because for the SocJust-Cult everything has to be political so they can safely feel believe that everything and everyone is out to get them. Sure wish I had some sort of Grey Eminence like the Patriarchy to blame for all the poor decisions I made in my life! Its not me being dumb its THE MAN holding me back guys, I swear! Actually no. Because that's not how any sane person would behave. Now I know my completely radical ideas may blow your mind, but bear with me: Just because you like the books of this or that writer, doesn't mean that you have to 100% agree with their political views. Just because you like this or that actor, doesn't mean you have to vote for the same party, wear the same clothes as him or listen to the same music he likes. Heck, I probably have a completely different views on politics than most of the Obsidian Devs. Doesn't make me enjoy their writing and the games any less. And why I am salty that they gave in to outrage culture if won't stop me from buying their games in the future, or liking all those Obsidian/Black Isle/Interplay games I already played. How god damn self-righteous do you have to be to condemn this or that as "tainted" because they have a different political opinion than you? There is a very interesting book that was written by an American author Todd Strasser called "The Wave". I recommend it as a reading material to you, who are so quick to judge people on their personal beliefs while fighting for Social Justice. You actually might experience an epiphany or two while reading it. As a general rule of thumb: If you think that being offended is some sort of argument to remove or change content in games, books or movies you should first take good look at yourself and ponder if it doesn't reveal more about your issues with yourself.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA, Hold on for a minute. My brain needs to process this level of mental. You are saying that a joke is so bad that it can cause EMOTIONAL HURT to you? And you find a reaction like this to a joke to be a healthy and proper response? Are you for real? that discounting emotional pain is silly No, saying that you got emotional pain because someone joked about your bodyhair or called you a mean poopy-head is silly. It is not only silly, it is in fact as insulting as people who claim they got PTSD because someone made fun of them on Twitter. You know snipping my posts for out of context effect isn't very good trolling. You know snipping my posts for out of context effect isn't very good trolling. Your post can be essentially reduced to that sentences. You should also probably look up what trolling actually means before you throw it at someone. it makes no difference it wont make it any less mind-boggling. You are implying that sane normal behaviour is being emotionally hurt by bad jokes or strangers making fun of you. Its not. Where did I say it was about you? Why are you trying to make it about you?

Jokes do, but only if they are uttered with malevolence. The one in-game was more of a dirty limerick, hilarious but not malevolent in scope. The author is OK with it, and in this particular case we should be too. The principle is still wrong, however. No, as I mentioned, there's literally no evidence that jokes cause any kind of behaviour to start/continue. The issue should have not been taken seriously from the off. I'm not sure you can hold up a lack of research as proof that something isn't happening. Yet you apparently can go the way of "My Feelings are proof" and somehow that is more valid? Im sorry but it takes outragous naïveté if not outright ignorance to make out with someone who is not aware or is too drunk to realize that his partner may be transgender, start getting romantic and then drop "by the way I have a ****" on him. "I am surprised that I got socked in the face" shows a baffling lack of social awareness. Not saying that violence is justified, dont get me wrong, just that I have enough empathy to understand WHY someone would react like that. Wasnt there even a court case some years back like that? Drunk guy gets picked up by a trans, they have sex, next morning guy wakes up and claims he was raped because he was never told by her that she was trans?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA, Hold on for a minute. My brain needs to process this level of mental. You are saying that a joke is so bad that it can cause EMOTIONAL HURT to you? And you find a reaction like this to a joke to be a healthy and proper response? Are you for real? that discounting emotional pain is silly No, saying that you got emotional pain because someone joked about your bodyhair or called you a mean poopy-head is silly. It is not only silly, it is in fact as insulting as people who claim they got PTSD because someone made fun of them on Twitter.

Oh god, why did I read this horrible thread? It's nothing but gamergaters and people trying to defend a dumb limerick as artistic integrity. Are you actually serious? This doesn't at all represent me. My goal in backing this project was not "I want a studio I love to make something that offends SJWs". And that quote. Jesus Christ man, that quote. You know if the limerick referred to laser guns and sci fi stuff you'd have no problem with it being changed, but the moment someone gets offended, it's the death of liberty to actually listen to them. This entire situation is still messed up though - who is the change for? It's not for the GGers because apparently the most important thing to them is that this game contains content that offends minorities. It's not for the people who were actually offended because it's obviously a dig against them. Third time's the charm, right? You spelled "she" wrong. And last time I saw gators talk about Thompson they were saying how great a guy he really was. I know logically consistent arguments aren't gg's strong suit, but really. Sincerely, a backer who made Pillars of Eternity possible. Unlike you mr. sockpuppet. All these new accounts wihtout backer status coming out of the woodworks suddenly trying to give extra weight to a ****ty position ... typical gg "tactics". Sure you did, now show me evidence of Gators saying he's a great guy, typical SJW tactics, making claims they cannot back up. Do you even know what sockpuppet means? You clearly don't, go look the definition of that, just because someone made a new account on the forumm so they can debate the issue does not make them a soc-puppet anymore than all the cry babies crying "oh, won't you think about the women who get offended about pretty much anything" who have never bough or played the game, hell, they don't even play games. "All these new accounts wihtout backer status coming out of the woodworks suddenly trying to give extra weight to a ****ty position ... typical gg "tactics"." Extra weight? The majority of backers on the forum are in favor of keeping it up, only two people are against, thats~at least a 10 - 2 ratio... Funny how you dismiss other people's opinions because "they haven't backed the project", yet, this was changed because of people who don't even play games to begin with. This is the "opposition", bunch of people who can't defend their position without assuming things, acting like hypocrites and strait up lying about things that never happened. > I deem this offensive, change it or else I won't play your game, that I haven't backed, played or will ever play, because I'm not even a gamer Here you go: https://storify.com/a_man_in_black/gamergate-supports-jack-thompson The person who started this by tweeting about it, encountered the limerick while playing the game. How is she not a gamer? The person who signal boosted it, so it got picked up by geek and gamer blogs and websites, is a game developer. So what you have managed to prove is that you did indeed lie. The person who tweeted about it is a SJW and the guys in question who you claim is supporting Jack Thompson did in fact only say that maybe the reports on Jack Thompson were a bit too one-sided or that its hilarious how Anitas Tweets make Jack Thompson look like a swell guy, So where does he say what great guy he is? Where exactly are they sympathizing with him? Where are the agreeing with him? What you see is A Man in black trying really hard to give every tweet about Jack Thompson a spin. But I am sure you were aware of that. As the other guy said, this is exactly how SJWs operate: Lies, Misinformation and if that is not working and they get called out: Deliberately pretending to be stupid.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA, Hold on for a minute. My brain needs to process this level of mental. You are saying that a joke is so bad that it can cause EMOTIONAL HURT to you? And you find a reaction like this to a joke to be a healthy and proper response? Are you for real?

You do realise that scientific study has proven this saying to be woefully inaccurate right ? Words are a powerful thing. They do lasting damage. Largely when someone resorts to hurting someone else with 'sticks and stones' it is after words have hurt them. So hopefully no one ever gets taught this this silly misleading rhyme ever again. Yes. I bet being horribly offended as an adult by people you dont know and should not care about calling you a mean poopy-head will totally turn you into a well-adjusted normal human being. Yes words have power. This doest not mean, that this rhyme is silly or misleading, in fact if you want to see something that does lasting damage to people you just need to look at the american education systems and things like common core and/or no child left behind were every child gets hammered into its head that it is a special little snowflake, then goes out in the real world and is surprised that the world does not, in fact, revolve around them. I think we both can agree that wrong parenting and education in school does more harm and "lasting damage" than being called names or mocked in bad jokes.

You thought it was a bad joke and thats okay. What is not okay is claiming that people should change it because you are offended. Being offended is not an argument of any kind. Being offended is a whine. Maybe you should start questioning whether you being so ghastly offended by a harmless limerick hass less to do with it being actually offensive and you needing to see psychiatrist. My mother is polish, my father is german. I have heard all kinds of jokes about myself, my country, my gender, my looks, my name, pretty much anything. Some of those jokes are good and I laugh, some of those jokes a bad but nowhere do I get offended that I need to rally all my tumblr/twitter friends to pressure someone into an apology or change on my behalf. Why? Because it is not healthy or sane behaviour. What are you horrified of? Dissenting opinion? A rational debate like in this thread? People - OH THE HORROR - disagreeing with you? If any of those things above make you feel "horrified" then I can only repeat myself and tell you, that you should try seeing a psychiatrist since you clearly have **** issues than that.

At least you didnt make an arrow to the knee joke. At least that speaks for you.

Good work on caving in to people who unironically tweet about killing all men but then are offended to death about a harmless joke, I guess.. ? I mean, seriously. The same person who was offended about this joke tweets how hetereosexual man are a blight yet you guys dont feel silly at all for caving in to his/her hurt feelings? Where on Earth does this step make any kind of sense?