help making DPS melee as main character + mini rant

[FlaviusPTZ]

 

I would like a 2 handed build, I don't like dual wielding at all; I mean thing about it, pretty much no one used it in medieval or any other period, why is it so successful in rpgs I don't get

 

Keep in mind that the world of POE isn't medieval Europe. Dual wielding was more common in other parts of the world in medieval times, such as in the martial arts traditions of East Asia. I think that the fondness for dual wielding in D&D and video games (such as Baldur's Gate) goes back to fascination of Japanese samurai, who commonly wielded both a katana and wakazashi, although they didn't necessarily dual wield; these swords were more typically used for different purposes. As Madscientist wrote, POE gives you the flexibility to build whatever sort of character you'd like. POE might be criticized as being unrealistic in not giving you an accuracy penalty for dual wielding, as in older games such as BG. [edited for grammar]

 

The katana was used as a 2 handed sword, and the wakizashi or other short swords were used as a back-up sword(also used for beheading defeated  opponents, seppuku, etc) similar to medieval knights using a poleaxe or longsword as main weapons and an arming short sword as a back-up weapon; in all cultures, in medieval (not only) times, there weren't a lot of warriors using dual wielding, precisely because it wasn't very effective; 

I understand that PoE is not medieval europe, but the weapons and armor that you see in PoE is largely based on weapons and armor from late medieval europe, early renaissance, so you would expect that the way you use them would also be similar, right?

[dgray62]

Yes, just because samurai bore two swords doesn't mean that they dual wielded. Dual wielding katanas was a devastating build in BG2, but it is fantasy, of course. But these are fantasy games. If you want to dual wield in POE you can, but you certainly don't have to do so. 2 handed builds are powerful precisely due to their ability to punch through high DR.

[BlackHat]

OP i sympathize with your rant; i hate the whole "but its fantasy" argument too.  But classes are about balancing gampelay whereas IRL the fighter/ranger/rogue special ops guy wins all the fights every time, because he's sneaky and he can fight (also, technology, but that's beside the point.)  IRL there are no classes, and you may question why *everyone* doesn't get sneak attack.  I mean, if you punch someone in the face when they aren't prepared/looking, that's a sneak attack, and anyone with hands can do it, right?  It takes a little bit more creative interpretation to imagine why only Rogues get it; perhaps they've studied human anatomy, etc, so they know that just hitting a leg with your knife isn't as bad as stabbing the inner thigh to get at that artery.

 

  However it's explained, I happen to agree that the dude with platemail and a two handed sword should be good for more than just standing around getting beat on.  MMO's have created this sorta rock-paper-scissors microcosm, where everybody shines at what they do equally given the right circumstances, but even if you leveled the playing field by stripping away all the "fantasy stuff" there would still be roles in a group of all mundane adventurers - I somehow find it hard to chew that your rogue (or moreover your naked monk) will out-dps the huge guy with a 6' sword, but even a guy with platemail can get a knife in the eye when caught unawares.  It'd be nice if the whole "grappling a guy from behind and knifing him like a commando" took more of a front an center role in Rogue classes, rather than the "run up in the armored guy's face and stab him 50 times in the breastplate with your dual wield knives" shtick that seems to be more and more common. 

 

Anyway, the rant is strong with this one <---- so ill make it shorter: you don't have to play by those class tropes in POE.  You can build a really buff armored juggernaut of death.  Just take Charge, and disciplined barrage (two best fighter abilities, aside from constant recovery) and don't forget armored grace.  Later, durgan reinforced armor, and reinforced weapon, will level the playing field.   I like apprentice sneak attack with fighter builds, as well as the whole mastery/specialization thing.  Soldier weapons are the good juice, and gauntlets of swift strikes.  Everyone always mentions Shod-in-faith boots but I happen to like boots of speed for any class, if you're not planning on staying in one place to beat on people (and be beat on/interrupt locked).  Sanguine Plate (agreed Boeroer) and that +healing recieved belt, with tidefall,  or take any belt that adds con or might, and Hrs of St. Rumbault (boost it to at least superb if possible).   Itll still do plenty of damage, even without glowy bits from lash or slaying enchants.

 

Also, you could take a paladin, (Kind wayfarers).  Ryona's Breastplate and teh strange mercy talent will not only make you very durable, but will aoe heal nearby allies.  Its a little less Medieval-Grit and more fantastic, especially with the green armor thing, but at least it's not covered in odd feathers or wierd tassles.  Paladin will have a lot less flexibility and mobility to dish out damage compared to Fighter Charges, but zealous charge or zealous focus will make up for that to some degree.  It really ust depends on you point of view: do you want this character himself to deal copious damage? (pick fighter) or do you want a bedrock for the whole team who can do "just ok" damage (pick paladin) -  and if you can stomach burny weapons, build into burning lashes and scion of flames as you can do some decent damage with flames of devotion/intense flames.  Sacred immolation meshes well with this fire/aoe heal thing you have going.  and if you're a fire godlike and take a ring of searing flams and some retaliation gea- aw S*** im off on a tangent again.  Nevermind.

[WOLFGEIST]

Miyamoto Musashi popularized dual wielding a long sword and a short sword. Of course he was abnormally large, skilled, and intelligent but he's regarded as one of the greatest duelists ever. Your average soldier isn't likely to be effective dual wielding but a truly exceptional warrior could make it work amazingly well.

[BlackHat]

Isn't that what dual wielding has always been about for RPers?  Back when D&D barely allowed for DW mechanics, they first introduced rangers and the entirely unique Drizzt and shortly after kits like the kensai etc, suddenly there was a massive influx of people who wanted dual wield Katanas and such, A) because they wanted to be exceptional (like Musashi, even if they'd never heard his name specifically) and B) because it was new.  Whether they wanted to game the system for as much damage as possible (and therefore wow their buddies around the table with their crazy deeps) or they just wanted to stand out after an era of very basic class tropes - it was all about 'originality' as much as efficacy.  The irony is that now everyone dual wields with their DPS class of choice, and it's now unique to pick a one handed rogue/whatever, though entirely unoptimal.

 

  I mean, let's face it, most people, if given a choice, would rather look like an impossibly graceful war machine of doom, than a plain ol' dude with a sword and board, or a a pokey little rapier guy ( and the mechanics of most games support that) despite the real world examples of the values of having a shield (Roman legionaires?  Or picture that Achilles fight in Troy if you want something more fantastic, because that duel with hector was pretty much the one good scene in that flick anyway).  Or the values of 1 hand free  - balance, the ability to grab things, or to grab people and stick em while they can't dodge, or in a fantasy setting, to be able to throw/use objects with your free hand.  It'd be nice if that could be reflected in gameplay mechanics, like a 1 hander speed bonus to drinking potions/using items from inventory.  In a way, that *is* the case in POE in that you kinda get an accuracy bonus to casting and the like - presumably because you have a hand free to waggle your fingers in a mage-like manner(or hold your grimoire to focus your spells or something?).

 

Eeeehhhh, tangent.  This probably belongs in that 1h rogue thread, but i imagine the OPs in either thread have already got the advice they wanted and are ignoring these rants, heh.

[FlaviusPTZ]

Miyamoto Musashi popularized dual wielding a long sword and a short sword. Of course he was abnormally large, skilled, and intelligent but he's regarded as one of the greatest duelists ever. Your average soldier isn't likely to be effective dual wielding but a truly exceptional warrior could make it work amazingly well.

 

No offence mate, but knights weren't average soldiers by any means, they were professional soldiers, the elite of the elite; second, dueling isn't the same as fighting for your life on the battlefield were there are no rules; on the battlefield samurai used the bow (arquebus in the sengoku period) and some kind of poleaxe or spear (yari) as main weapons, and the katana as a back-up; see a pattern here? polearms>swords, sword aren't effective at all against armor, especially plate mail, you know the stuff that a 15-16 century knight would wear; dual wielding 2 katanas would be laughable against a knight in full plate wielding a poleaxe or something similar, simply because first katanas don't cut plate(contrary to popular belief :D )and second greater reach...nuff said

Edited November 9, 2017 by FlaviusPTZ

[rheingold]

At the risk of confusing the issue... if you are looking for a dps warrior type, monks work really well. In fact I far prefer them to fighters. They bring a lot to the table - dps, crowd control and they are fun. Also quite a unique mechanic with wounds. And you can use weapons with them.

[KDubya]

I'd also suggest looking at a monk for a tanky damage dealing melee type. They have a unique playstyle and are represented in PoE much differently than in most (all?) other similar games.

 

I personally like dwarven dual wielding fist monks wearing heavy armor but weapon use is also quite good. Dual wielding has some mechanical advantages when it comes to using Torments but its still very effective with two handers. At level three you can take an activated attack that costs two wounds and results in an absurdly long prone affliction, its like two to three times longer than what an above average intellect fighter can get and can be used as often as you want as long as you receive damage (wounds).

 

Expand your horizons and try a Monk.