Ancient memory vs Veteran Recovery

[Archaven]

Hey i just started a chanter for the first of my life . And i'm kinda loving it. My only gripe it's so slow? I played the first vanilla (without any expansions) using a cipher. I probably would play another cipher again... maybe DW cipher? But anyway.. a stupid question.. i can't decide between Ancient Memory or Veteran Recovery.

 

Ancient Memory: 2.3xEndurance for Party AOE

Veteran Recovery: 3.9xEndurance every 3secs for 63 secs.

 

Going AM will help the party better in long term? Or being selfish for self regen is the way to go? Currently playing POTD and i'm back to basics.

[Boeroer]

Both stack. So the advice is to take both. Also Beloved Spirits.

Look at the Chillfog build in the pinned build list about information around regeneration stacking with a chanter.

If you take both talents and also use survival bonuses and item bonuses for healing your regeneration will be pretty impressive.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Boeroer

[Archaven]

Wow thanks! i didn't know that i could take both. I'm just starting of the game. Here's my stats:

 

MIG - 20

CON - 10

DEX - 3

INT - 18

PER - 16

RES - 11

 

At first i wanted something like a DW Chanter. Then it seems the only way to go is 1H+Shield for tankiness and to last longer to unleash the most powerful chants.

[Boeroer]

Those are perfect stats for a Dragon-Thrashed-Chanter with great recovery.

 

Actually his regeneration will be so good (better than a fighter's with Rapid Recovery) that you don't necessarily need to take weapon & shield. But honestly it's the tbest synergy you can have since you need no weapon attacks at all once you have The Dragon Thrashed. That stacks as well (with itself) by the way.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Boeroer

[Archaven]

hey sorry this isn't related to the skill. i'm currently playing POTD, i like to ask can the game completable if i have my companions auto-level? or in order to play POTD efficiently, each companion i need to reset their skill and attribute points? in other words min-maxing for POTD difficulty?

 

For Durance, is it going for 1H+Shield better? My current playstyle he needs to near the frontliners for the buffs, debuffs, etc. My chanter is going with 1H+Shield. She's currently very weak. Is she good for DPS?

 

My current party:

Myself (Chanter)

Eder

Aloth

Durance

 

I seem to have alot of frontliners. My first PT was having Pallegina. So maybe i dont need her anymore. Hiravias was awesome so i plan to have him again. My first PT was a cipher, so maybe i'll get Grieving Mother? Sagani was boring and weak? Is she any good now? Maybe i'll go with Zahua or Devil/Maneha as i never have them before.

 

Are they viable for POTD?

 

Thanks

[JerekKruger]

You don't need to reset your companions attribute points to play PotD efficiently. In fact, without using a mod and/or console commands you can't (respeccing works differently for the main character and for companions). I would, however, not have them auto-level*, but if you've been auto-levelling them so far you can fix that with a respec (gold should stop being an obstacle somewhere around mid-late act II).

 

Personally I tend to leave Durance using his staff, even though Priests of Magran aren't really suited to wielding staves, because it's so integral to his character. Given his low Dexterity, and the importance of buffing, he probably won't spend much time swinging his weapon in difficult fights anyway so it hardly matters. I guess that a sword and shield would be more optimal since Magran's talent gives an Accuracy buff for swords and the shield will make him less of an obvious target, but I never really had any problems using his staff on PotD.

 

Chanters tend to come into their own at higher levels, when they've got a bit more endurance, got all their regeneration talents and, most importantly, have the Dragon Thrashed chant (level 9). Before then you might want to act more as an off-tank than a main-tank role.

 

I like Sagani, and I find the addition of Ituumak very handy when it comes to controlling the battlefield. Not sure when you last played Pillars, but rangers received a fair amount of love with the White March part I with Twinned Arrow and Stormcaller (which can be obtained very early into act II if you rush it). Pallegina might also have been improved if you last played before she got her unique talents (Vielo Vidòrio and Wrath of the Five Suns). Personally I like to switch out companions periodically so they all get taken some of the time.

 

In general though, most parties are viable for PotD. You'll probably want at least two sturdy frontliners, but since your main character is one already that's almost a given. After that you can't go all that wrong.

 

*The game is almost certainly still completable if you do, I just don't like the choices the game makes for my companions.

[Archaven]

Thanks Jerek for the awesome insights!. I saw that enemies now break engagement to go for my squishy Aloth. That's nice!. I'm now having some problems with Phantoms and Shadows. So i can't even enter Caed Nua. Their stats are so high and my Fan of Flames don't work easily on them anymore. I'm just level 4 now and crafting seems off as i lack the materials for Scroll of Defense (i think that is very important for my party to survive the onslaught of these Phantoms and Shadows). I'm taking alot of debuffs skills and it seems hard in penetrating these Phantoms and Shadows. Need to bring down their reflexes for the Flames to penetrate them. Any tips in going thru these ghosts?

Edited July 2, 2017 by Archaven

[Boeroer]

Companions stats are totally fine for PotD.

 

Caed Nua is tough. It's ok to struggle there. You have to follow the pattern "buff ACC (like with Eldritch Aim) - do CC (like Chillfog, also use flanking) - deal damage".

 

If you found it, give your main frontliner Rhymrgand's Mantle - it will heal nearly all of the damage the spirits will do.

 

Fan of Flames is not as good as people think. If you still want to use it, cast Chillfog after casting Eldritch Aim. I know that those spirits have high freeze DR, but they will get blinded because their fortitude is their weakest defense. Once they are blinded (-20 reflex), use Fan of Flames. If you already have lvl-2 spells, use Combusting Wounds + multiple Chillfogs. It's not the freeze damage that will kill them, but the burn damage from all those parallel Combusting Wounds. Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon is also good against them.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Boeroer

[Archaven]

Companions stats are totally fine for PotD.

 

Caed Nua is tough. It's ok to struggle there. You have to follow the pattern "buff ACC (like with Eldritch Aim) - do CC (like Chillfog, also use flanking) - deal damage".

 

If you found it, give your main frontliner Rhymrgand's Mantle - it will heal nearly all of the damage the spirits will do.

 

Fan of Flames is not as good as people think. If you still want to use it, cast Chillfog after casting Eldritch Aim. I know that those spirits have high freeze DR, but they will get blinded because their fortitude is their weakest defense. Once they are blinded (-20 reflex), use Fan of Flames. If you already have lvl-2 spells, use Combusting Wounds + multiple Chillfogs. It's not the freeze damage that will kill them, but the burn damage from all those parallel Combusting Wounds. Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon is also good against them.

 

Thanks Boroer! I'll give it a try. But Eldritch Aim gains ACC right? I'm not sure does ACC plays a factor for caster? I thought what goes through the defenses were only Deflection, Fortitude, Will and Reflex. I have Aloth that can cast blindness though. But the AOE isn't big enough for so many Phantoms and Shadows. Also i just checked on Chillfog. Aloth is only able to blind for 3.9 secs, that isn't going to help if you asked me. Curse of Blackened Sight will Blilnk for 26secs which will be much better?

Edited July 2, 2017 by Archaven

[Boeroer]

ACC bonuses will usually apply to ALL your dice rolls against defenses (melee attacks, shots, spells and so on).

 

There are spells/abilities that only raise melee or ranged ACC (Reckless Assault and whatnot), but Eldritch Aim is universal.

 

It will boost your spells' ACC as well. It's short, but if you can hit your first crowd control spell with its help, you basically won the fight most of the time.

 

Chillfog is a pulsig spell. It will last a long time and will do a pulse every 3 seconds which blinds for more 3+ seconds and also does freeze damage every 3 seconds. So basically most foes will be blinded all the time and get freeze damage every 3 seconds. That's the reason why it works great with Combusting Wounds: every pulse the enemies will also get new Combusting Wounds which will all stack. It's a very powerful combo at such an early stage.

 

Curse of the Blackened Sight targets the will defense of enemies. Chillfog targets the fortitude defense. Shades and Phantoms have lower fortitude than will, so Chillfog is the better pick. If you meet enemies with high fortitude (trolls for example), then use Curse of the Blackened Sight.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Boeroer

[Archaven]

@Boroer

 

Thanks for the very valuable insights!. I went with Concelhaut Corrosive Siphon and crafted myself a scroll Burn of Summer Flame. Got lucky with the rolls it did quite some damage to those phantoms. I'm not sure where to get Combusting wounds perhaps i have to retrain my character to get it i guess. Manage to stomp in the to hall where the Steward is. Most of the fights end up many unconscious.

 

Some questions regarding Armor. For Chanters, i read just put it on heavy armor with 1H+Shield. How about other casters? Should they wear light armor? I just found out Aloth Concelhaut Parasitic Staff is so... powerful!. Right now he deals quite alot of damage on those Raedric Guards and Spellsword! I'm loving him already. Seems like now the game has changed that most must go melee now?

 

Also i read that, building Eder as a tank is no longer viable strategy as he needs to deal damage now. I also found that some spells are kinda useless? Mirror image +25 deflection for 78s but last only for 1 hit. With so many mobs i'm not sure what's the point for withstanding 1 hit though.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Archaven

[Boeroer]

Chanters can be build with heavy armor and weapon and shield, yes. You can also build them differently, but the tanky approach will definetely work.

 

Other caster: it depends what their role is. A melee caster needs more armor than a caster who sits in the back row. More armor means longer recovery time (=less action speed).

 

Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff is so powerful because it has higher base damage than a normal quarterstaff and it comes exceptional. It's a good spell because you can deal a lot of damage with it and only use one spell. And since it's a reach weapon you can even attack from the second row - so you don't need to put on plate armor but can hide behind your front liners if you wish.

 

Later (spell lvl 5) on you can also summon Citzal's Spirit Lance, a pike - that weapon is even better.

 

A melee wizard is absolutely viable and fun.

 

Mirrored Image doesn't go away completely if you get hit. Its bonus gets reduced after each hit (not graze - if you get grazed nothing happens) - until it's gone. The description is bad.

 

Wizard's Double will give you even more deflection (+40), but will go away completely once you got hit. It's the same as with Mirrored Image: if you get grazed nothing will happen. Only a hit (or crit) can remove it. This can be exploited with Arcane Veil (+50 deflection) + Hardened Veil (+25): Those all stack and will give you +115 deflection. It's very difficult for enemies to hit you then - so it will stay for a long time. 

 

In my opinion Edér is a lot better if you put him in thick armor and give him two weapons like sabres or war hammers and skill him for offense. His Constant Recovery + Rapid Recovery + the chanter's Ancient Memory + Beloved Spirits will make sure he doesn't go down easily. And Knockdown is much better with two weapons than with weapon & shield: you will get two Knockdown strikes instead of one - so if one misses you will have a second chance. I don't like fighters as tanks because they can do nothing else than standing around - no support, nothing. If build offensively they are still very sturdy but can deal good single target damage with high accuracy. 

[JerekKruger]

Also i read that, building Eder as a tank is no longer viable strategy as he needs to deal damage now.

 

I usually build Edér as an off-tank/single target damage dealer using Andrea Colombo's Lady of Pain build (or one of the variants thereof). He'll still be tough enough to tank most enemies without any real difficulty, but also does pretty good single target damage as well. He won't compete with a Rogue for single target damage, but he also won't die as often, and he will struggle to tank the really big enemies like dragons, but he's still a very useful party member in this role.

 

I usually use a Chanter or a Paladin as my main tank. If I'm not playing one of those two classes, I'll usually use Pallegina in this role.

[Archaven]

Hey guys thanks for all those valuable insights! You guys are still sticking around and still playing? I'm really amazed how both of you here are so passionate about the game. Regarding heavy armor for DW or 2H Eder. Wouldn't be the recovery super slow? Currently using 1H+Shield he's barely surviving. Also not sure if i've made a grave mistake. I killed Maerwald in Caed Nua before clearing all the areas. Am i going to miss out a tonnes of XP?

[Boeroer]

Edér can pick Armored Grace which reduces recovery penalty. Also, when dual wielding you will be 50% faster. Take Two Handed Style as well and you will be hitting pretty fast in plate armor.

 

Killing Maerwald before clearing the whole level is totally OK. You will not miss anything.

[JerekKruger]

You guys are still sticking around and still playing? I'm really amazed how both of you here are so passionate about the game.

 

I'm not playing at the moment, but I am mulling ideas for another play through in my head and when one catches my imagination I'll start a new game. I'd say I tend to start a new play through every two or three months, though not all of them go the full distance.

 

Regarding Edér's recovery, if you follow the build I linked then at higher levels you can reach very low recoveries even whilst wearing plate, and with buffs you can reach zero recovery. Of course this relies on items, enchantments and talents so he'll be slower than that early on, but hopefully not painfully so. If you dual wield it's even easy to get low recovery.

 

As Boeroer says, there's no problem with killing Maerwald. He's sort of independent to the rest of the Endless Paths.

[Archaven]

Maybe i'll go with Boeroer's build making Eder as DW later in the stage. Probably have to respec Eder already as i've took the 1H+Shield already. Currently it seems he's much better tank than my Chanter.

 

As for Durance, i understand he's just there for party buffs all the time. Which means why Sword+Shield for him? And heavy armor too? Would that be penalizing his recovery? Would his robes do till the end of the game? I seriously doubt it. I think my first PT was hard and i can't recall if i changed his outfit.

 

My question is.. are having some squishy characters in the party with light armor and no shield viable in POTD? So far, it seems most of the characters will get engaged by enemies now. So going with less armor and protection seems disaster. So for Durance, Sword+Shield with Medium armor? Chanter will be going heavy armor with 1H+Shield. Eder will be going heavy armor with DW. As for Aloth, Arcane Veil is very nice.. but 13secs? Any chance in getting it longer? 2 per rests kinda taxing for the whole party as will need to rest alot.

 

Also, for skill, so everyone need very high survival for the rest bonus? Probably like  12 ranks in Survival for Level 3 of ACC bonus vs Creature Types? Is that the aim for every character? I understand we need 1 character for Mechanics. I'm wondering who will be doing that role though. Since Eder would be going offense, i think wasting skill points on mechanics wouldn't be a wise choice. Also, it seems to disarm trap, it needs 2 skill instead of 1? What is the max stealth required to spot the deadliest trap? And what's the highest mechanics needed to disarm them?

 

For Lore, does everyone with Level 2 scroll enough? As for Athletics, i wonder if just 2-3 ranks sufficient? 

 

Thanks!

Edited July 4, 2017 by Archaven

[Boeroer]

Of course a fighter with weapon & shield is more sturdy than a chanter. He has higher deflection, already starts with Constant Recovery and also higher endurance and health. The problem is that such a fighter will do nothing else while a chanter can give support, do CC, call summons or deal huge damage via chant or invocation. And after some levels the difference in sturdyness becomes less obvious as well.

[Archaven]

heya i'm back with more questions . currently all level 5 in POTD. seems like many of my questions were not answered . hopefully some good folk would want to share some light or perhaps someone should create a thread and pin all the knowledge base about POE .

 

i still don't understand why chanter should go ahead with heavy armor and tank. does the recovery not affect chanting? also it seems armor is not universal? example DR of 12 (Let's say Slash/Pierce 12/12. So it only grants DR of 12 for Slash and Pierce only? And it takes full damage for Blunt? If so this don't make sense at all. If amor provides DR of 12 then it should be a flat DR for all melee/range attacks?

 

Currently i selected Durance to be the one should be having Stealth and Mechanics. What does everyone picks on skill selection? Everyone 2 level or Athletics and all goes to Survival for the resting bonus? Why are people going full levels on survival? Up to 3x the survival bonus? Which one people go for? ACC bonus vs. creature types? I normally go with healing bonus since now most of my characters are dealing melee damage.

 

Also, regarding weapon ineffective. It seems Sagani is really bad and always got this weapon ineffective with her bow. So if said enemy has full immunity to pierce, Sagani basically screwed?

[Boeroer]

Yes - chanting is not affected by low DEX and heavy armor.

 

If you use an invocation however, you will see that the recovery time is much shorter with high DEX and no armor. This recovery will also stop your chanting. 

That's why a chanter tank who uses Dragon Thrashed doesn't use invocations at all.

 

No, armor's DR is not universal. If you open the character sheet and look in the bottom left corner, you will see all the DR values against certain damage types.

 

People going for survival because it's the most useful skill if you're not the mechanics guy and if you're not planning to use scrolls (needs lore). Althletics is quite crappy in my opinion, stealth you only need if you want to use Backstab or want to avoid encounters. Mechanics is pretty important, but one guy specializing in it is enough. Survival on the other hand is very useful for tanks (+DR, +healing bonus) as well as for CC and dps guys (+ACC, flanking bonus) and so on. Especially the ACC bonus is very helpful in the early game. VERY helpful.

 

Give Sagani a backup weapon. For example a wand, rod or scepter. Those have two damage types.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Boeroer

[Chike]

i still don't understand why chanter should go ahead with heavy armor and tank. does the recovery not affect chanting? also it seems armor is not universal? example DR of 12 (Let's say Slash/Pierce 12/12. So it only grants DR of 12 for Slash and Pierce only? And it takes full damage for Blunt? If so this don't make sense at all. If amor provides DR of 12 then it should be a flat DR for all melee/range attacks?

No, armor's DR is not universal. If you open the character sheet and look in the bottom left corner, you will see all the DR values against certain damage types.

Hi, Boeroer.

 

Could you clarify your response a little bit? I was always under the impression that armor had a base DR and any values listed afterwards qualified the amount of protection.

 

For example, mail armor has a base 9 DR but 14 against Slash and 5 against Crush, which makes it better against swords and weaker against maces. To Archaven's question, that base number covers anything not listed -- so Mail has 9 DR against Burn, Freeze, Corrode, etc.

 

Am I getting that right?

 

Thanks in advance! (Long time lurker, first time poster, etc etc :D )

[JerekKruger]

Hi, Boeroer.

Could you clarify your response a little bit? I was always under the impression that armor had a base DR and any values listed afterwards qualified the amount of protection.

 

For example, mail armor has a base 9 DR but 14 against Slash and 5 against Crush, which makes it better against swords and weaker against maces. To Archaven's question, that base number covers anything not listed -- so Mail has 9 DR against Burn, Freeze, Corrode, etc.

 

Am I getting that right?

 

Thanks in advance! (Long time lurker, first time poster, etc etc :D )

 

 

Yep, that's right.

 

Something worth noting that's not at all obvious, mail armour doesn't have +5 DR against Slash and -4 DR against Crush, instead the bonuses and penalties are treated as percentage modifiers. This isn't usually important, however when applying one of the "X-proofed" enchantments to armour it's worth noting that this percentage modifier applies to the enchantment as well. So whilst it might seem natural to apply a "Crush-proofed" enchantment to mail, to make up for its poor defence against Crush damage, you'll only get 3*5/9 = 1.67 extra Crush DR (I think this rounds up to 2) whereas if you apply "Slash-proofed" you'll get 3*5/3 = 5 extra Slash DR, making the enchantment much better. Not a major factor, but worth bearing in mind.

 

This also applies the the bonus from quality enchantments as well I believe.

 

Also worth noting is that, whilst Durance's Robe is largely unexciting, it has a very high DR against burning damage, and with a high quality enchantment it might provide the best Burn DR of any armour in the game (since again, this bonus is a percentage modifier).

 

Just food for thought.

[Boeroer]

Yeah, what Jerek said.

 

For example plate armor:

 

base DR: 12

Vs. slash and pierce damage it has a modifier of 1.25, resulting in 12 * 1.25 = 15.

Vs. shock damage it has a modifier of 0.5, resulting in 12 * 0.5 = 6.

 

Armor enchantments like crush-proof or shock-proof add their bonus to the base! So a plate + shock-proof would only get a +2 bonus in the end, because (12+3) * 0.5 = 7.5 which is rounded to 8.

 

Putting crush-proof on would lead to a value of 15 (12+3, no modifier). Putting pierce-proof on would result in 19: (12+3) * 1.25 = 18.75

 

Any other, "external" source of bonus DR which has nothing to do with the armor itself, for example a ring with +4 DR and +4 burn DR from Scion of Flame and such just get added to the modified armor value. They will not be influenced by the armor's DR modifier. So, Heart of the Storm would add a flat +4 DR bonus on top your plate's 6, resulting in 10. A Blunting Belt will always add 5 to slash and pierce DR, no matter the armor modifiers and so on... 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[Archaven]

base DR: 12

Vs. slash and pierce damage it has a modifier of 1.25, resulting in 12 * 1.25 = 15.

Vs. shock damage it has a modifier of 0.5, resulting in 12 * 0.5 = 6.

 

i'm still confused. does this mean i have base DR of 12 vs. Blunt,Fire,Corrode,etc. except slash and shock which applies the above?

Edited July 8, 2017 by Archaven

[Boeroer]

Ooops I guess?