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[Suggestion] - Planning Combat Tactics

Suggestion Idea Combat Tactics

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6 replies to this topic

#1
FabMan_UK

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In PoE, unless you've read a Walkthrough or you have already played the game, you don't know what kind of enemies you will encounter in the next area you explore. So your characters carry around a chest filled with 107 weapons, 23 suits of armor, 2310 potions/scrolls/traps that you could use at any time. Which I feel misses an opportunity.

 

As such, I'd like PoE 2 to offer the ability to ask locals, read notices or hire a scout that can give you information on an area well before you visit so you can pick the appropriate weapons, carry the necessary potions and load in the optimal spells. I'd love for equipment to allow for the bonuses to be changed at certain locations, that way you could choose to Enchant the equipment to allow you to cut through the mass enemies at that site, or be more effective against the few powerful leaders there.

 

I've read the goal by the developers is to make the combat less of a filler and more interesting and I think arriving at a town, talking with the locals find out the area you are going to explore is filled with strong but dim witted Ogres, but lead by a clever Spirit. At the moment, I think most people use the same equipment most of the time. I like in the Witcher you could chat to people to get information about a Contract, Use a Bestiary to gain information on those creatures and then apply an oil to give an advantage before entering an area, same weapon, but correct oils give significant benefits. Instead of ripping off The Witcher, why not allow for replaceable Enchantments?


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#2
Wormerine

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And did you ever use whatever you learned in Witcher3?

I do agree that PoE is focused on reloading, but it didn't bother me much. I find the weapon load out system enough flexible, to have various weapons prepared for different situations. You cast buffs in combat anyway, so you make the desition on what to cast during the combat anyway. The first time you encounter new enemy, and therefore don't know his weaknesses and strengths are generally forgiving enough you can just push through them.

#3
CornyCarrot

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I don't know, the need to be ready for anything is part of the charm in this type of a game. That's the reason you have 6 (5 in Deadfire) characters forming an adventuring party - to cover every possibility. On top of that there are classes like Wizards who can completely adjust to the enemies on the fly (i.e. different grimoires).  

 

Because of that, the comparison with the Witcher is rather weak both thematically and mechanically. Geralt is just one guy and monster killing is a job for him. Huge part of that setting is poking fun at high fantasy tropes - instead of a knight in shinning armour on a noble quest to slay monsters and save virgins, you get a fantasy version of pest control with wicked haggling skills. The whole "ask around town, prepare right oil and elixir, try to squeeze out a down payment, hit on the local girl" is meant to show that there is a certain professional routine - not every contract is some epic struggle (most aren't in fact). Now this would just feel wrong in Pillars due the completely different vibe, i.e. "the grand adventure."

 

I agree with map scouting though. Thing is, I'd much rather do it myself to be honest, and luckily the new stealth system is being developed with that in mind (among other things). That being said, I see no reason not to have "area scouting" as a service from a local hunter, for players who don't want to be bothered with stealth. 

 

Interestingly enough, most of the things you ask for are already in the game. There is a Bestiary, which I found to be no less handy that the one in the Witcher, if not more so due to different flavours for same type of monster. Talking to the locals will give you some hints, sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle, about monsters you will be facing ("I need this thing that's from a drake's lair, yo", "Damn ogre, killing my pigs!", "Dunno, that girl got kidnapped by this ogre, bro"). Take Durgan's Battery for instance - how many times is the player told that the place has been sealed for centuries and is haunted. Don't know about you but for me it screams vessel and spirit, and sure enough, the Battery is chock-full of them. Pillars already has that preparation element to it, it's just handled differently.


Edited by CornyCarrot, 01 May 2017 - 09:04 AM.

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#4
smjjames

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There's going to be customizable combat AI, so there's that. Don't know how that is going to be handled though.



#5
Wormerine

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I don't know, the need to be ready for anything is part of the charm in this type of a game. That's the reason you have 6 (5 in Deadfire) characters forming an adventuring party - to cover every possibility. On top of that there are classes like Wizards who can completely adjust to the enemies on the fly (i.e. different grimoires).  

 

Because of that, the comparison with the Witcher is rather weak both thematically and mechanically. Geralt is just one guy and monster killing is a job for him. Huge part of that setting is poking fun at high fantasy tropes - instead of a knight in shinning armour on a noble quest to slay monsters and save virgins, you get a fantasy version of pest control with wicked haggling skills. The whole "ask around town, prepare right oil and elixir, try to squeeze out a down payment, hit on the local girl" is meant to show that there is a certain professional routine - not every contract is some epic struggle (most aren't in fact). Now this would just feel wrong in Pillars due the completely different vibe, i.e. "the grand adventure."

 

I agree with map scouting though. Thing is, I'd much rather do it myself to be honest, and luckily the new stealth system is being developed with that in mind (among other things). That being said, I see no reason to have "area scouting" as a service from a local hunter, for players who don't want to be bothered with stealth. 

 

Interestingly enough, most of the things you ask for are already in the game. There is a Bestiary, which I found to be no less handy that the one in the Witcher, if not more so due to different flavours for same type of monster. Talking to the locals will give you some hints, sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle, about monsters you will be facing ("I need this thing that's from a drake's lair, yo", "Damn ogre, killing my pigs!", "Dunno, that girl got kidnapped by this ogre, bro"). Take Durgan's Battery for instance - how many times is the player told that the place has been sealed for centuries and is haunted. Don't know about you but for me it screams vessel and spirit, and sure enough, the Battery is chock-full of them. Pillars already has that preparation element to it, it's just handled differently.

To add to that they already fixed the EI game problems of starting fight you are not prepared for. You always notice enemies before they notice you, so as long as you have the autopause set up to pause game as soon as you encounter an enemy (which you absolutely should have), you can easly spot what is coming.



#6
FabMan_UK

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And did you ever use whatever you learned in Witcher3?

I do agree that PoE is focused on reloading, but it didn't bother me much. I find the weapon load out system enough flexible, to have various weapons prepared for different situations. You cast buffs in combat anyway, so you make the desition on what to cast during the combat anyway. The first time you encounter new enemy, and therefore don't know his weaknesses and strengths are generally forgiving enough you can just push through them.

 

Of course, it was necessary on the Hardest difficulty and advisable on Hard. Before a battle looking at what Oils, bombs, Signs and type of attacks to use made a huge difference and gave Tactics to what is effectively a Hack and slash otherwise.

 

Do you think many people playing PoE would have multiple sets of armour they'd switch between for each character, or weapons or equipment? I can't imagine so. So you'd use the same equipment, but upgrade to Fine or Exceptional along the way, and try to use the Abilities and spells at the time but not change anything much before a battle. You might change something before Dragon battles though.

 

 

I don't know, the need to be ready for anything is part of the charm in this type of a game. That's the reason you have 6 (5 in Deadfire) characters forming an adventuring party - to cover every possibility. On top of that there are classes like Wizards who can completely adjust to the enemies on the fly (i.e. different grimoires).  

 

Because of that, the comparison with the Witcher is rather weak both thematically and mechanically. Geralt is just one guy and monster killing is a job for him. Huge part of that setting is poking fun at high fantasy tropes - instead of a knight in shinning armour on a noble quest to slay monsters and save virgins, you get a fantasy version of pest control with wicked haggling skills. The whole "ask around town, prepare right oil and elixir, try to squeeze out a down payment, hit on the local girl" is meant to show that there is a certain professional routine - not every contract is some epic struggle (most aren't in fact). Now this would just feel wrong in Pillars due the completely different vibe, i.e. "the grand adventure."

 

I agree with map scouting though. Thing is, I'd much rather do it myself to be honest, and luckily the new stealth system is being developed with that in mind (among other things). That being said, I see no reason not to have "area scouting" as a service from a local hunter, for players who don't want to be bothered with stealth. 

 

Interestingly enough, most of the things you ask for are already in the game. There is a Bestiary, which I found to be no less handy that the one in the Witcher, if not more so due to different flavours for same type of monster. Talking to the locals will give you some hints, sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle, about monsters you will be facing ("I need this thing that's from a drake's lair, yo", "Damn ogre, killing my pigs!", "Dunno, that girl got kidnapped by this ogre, bro"). Take Durgan's Battery for instance - how many times is the player told that the place has been sealed for centuries and is haunted. Don't know about you but for me it screams vessel and spirit, and sure enough, the Battery is chock-full of them. Pillars already has that preparation element to it, it's just handled differently.

 

If before entering area you knew the type of combat you would be facing you could rest picking the correct rest bonuses {Perception for crits over Might raw damage), eating food (that last longer), replacing enchantments (if made easier as I want). Another problem is very limited resources to enchant, only a few decent items of each type, so once you've used up the rare resource to enchant on the rare decent items, you are stuck with it.

 

You are right about Durgan's Battery, or the entirety of White March 1. I've just finished White March 1 and that is what brought it to my attention, that I hadn't noticed it before and that I couldn't do much about it. Most of my weapons were already enchanted with bonuses to Beasts or Kith.

 

Map scouting would be helpful if you could see further in Scout mode, then back up to equip appropriately, if you could change items easily.

 

There's going to be customizable combat AI, so there's that. Don't know how that is going to be handled though.

 

Are you happy with how PoE did it? I didn't think it was too bad, just needs refinement.

 

To add to that they already fixed the EI game problems of starting fight you are not prepared for. You always notice enemies before they notice you, so as long as you have the autopause set up to pause game as soon as you encounter an enemy (which you absolutely should have), you can easly spot what is coming.

 

Which is great, but what can you do about it? Rest with different bonus, pick different Grimoires for Wizards, perhaps consume some food or potions, which is definitely good. I think my main desire reading your post is being able to re-enhance items differently or at least have better resources to build your own weapons without being stuck to 3 1 to 3 enchantments (2 to 4 with Durgan Steel).


Edited by FabMan_UK, 02 May 2017 - 11:09 PM.


#7
CornyCarrot

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If before entering area you knew the type of combat you would be facing you could rest picking the correct rest bonuses {Perception for crits over Might raw damage), eating food (that last longer), replacing enchantments (if made easier as I want). Another problem is very limited resources to enchant, only a few decent items of each type, so once you've used up the rare resource to enchant on the rare decent items, you are stuck with it.

 

You are right about Durgan's Battery, or the entirety of White March 1. I've just finished White March 1 and that is what brought it to my attention, that I hadn't noticed it before and that I couldn't do much about it. Most of my weapons were already enchanted with bonuses to Beasts or Kith.

 

Map scouting would be helpful if you could see further in Scout mode, then back up to equip appropriately, if you could change items easily.

 

Are there "correct" rest bonuses though? Take Perception for instance, the highest resting bonus is +4 from Caed Nua which amounts to +4 Accuracy. Now, Blessing, the 1st level Priest spell gives you +5 on top of 10% damage bonus. And then there is stuff like Devotion of the Faithful (+20 Acc, +4 Might, while also debuffing enemies in the area). My point here being that from minmaxing perspective a buffing Priest is your first, second, third and fourth concern. Resting bonuses are somewhere near the bottom of the list in my personal experience. I play PotD, no custom mercs, lowest stat is 9 on my Watcher, so no ultra minmax builds, and the only reason I use resting bonus is for scripted interaction and dialogue checks, pretty much.

 

I think that scare enchanting resources and focus on uniques is a design choice. Then again, I don't enchant that much anyway so I have never run out of them. One thing I can agree with is that I'm not a fan of lashes - I'd much prefer if the was a consumable alternative like resins from Dark Souls games.

 

From what I gather, Stealth is getting a complete overhaul - there are gonna be view-cones and noise-levels, actually allowing you to get close and remain undetected. So while the view distance might not change, you will still be able to scout just fine.

 

 







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