Tentacles WM2 Upscaled - Highest Endurance in the Game?

[darkly180]

Was strolling along Caryon's Scar for a walk when I came across the Eyeless. With Abydon's Hammer and a couple of paralysis scrolls, they were quite manageable. But the Tentacles were something else... adding up all the damage from the Maelstrom scrolls (please see the attached combat logs), each tentacle had close to 1000 endurance, which would make them more durable than all of the upscaled mobs in WM2 and the entire game!

 

Is this intentional or did I come across some bug?

[Jojobobo]

I'd say it's likely intentional, I'm also playing solo on PotD with upscaling and there's plenty of stuff that's quite frankly ridiculous (e.g. Rogues with 140+ deflection in Brynlod's bounty, and with Deep Wounds. I appreciate that some of the enemies are supposed to be greater than level 16, but to give a Rogue that kind of deflection is insane and it's a little beyond me how it's even possible to out-tank them - fortunately for me I'm playing a Chanter so I could just send animated weapons at them to absorb the continual health grind of Deep Wounds and use Dragon Thrashed, though even that doesn't hit them too frequently).

 

I'm beginning to think that soloing upscaled WM part II on PotD it's almost impossible to play anything but a full tank or kiter, which is weird as Act III and WM part I are perfectly fine upscaled. I'm playing something that's a bit middle of the road (I'm going to do a class build for when I kill something like the Alpine Dragon, which hopefully shouldn't be much longer) and would work as a tank on the lower difficulties, but when you're facing defences well above 100 there's very little you can do other than sit there, buff and throw scrolls at them - so while I'm managing to get through the game I'm not doing much that I was hoping to do with the build.

 

I guess I was expecting the difficulty to present a more interesting challenge, rather than a bit of a dull grinding numbers game. On the flip side, I'm think I'd find hard upscaled solo way too easy - maybe even PotD non-upscaled WM part II, so there's really not a decent option for me personally.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

Would be nice if they tweaked difficulty not by raising stats like crazy, but by adapting AI behaviour. At the moment - no matter the difficulty setting - enemies are dumb like pebbles. Like casting Tanglefoot and Calling the World's Maw on themselves all the time, running in circles around my party to reach someone who's standing in the middle, that sort of stuff. It would raise the difficulty a lot if foes with brains (like kith an so on) would have better tactics. Like not breaking up their formation when they see there's no spellcaster, spread if there is, better tactical movement and so on. That would mean a lot of work though. More than just tweaking stats.

[FluxWing]

Considering how quickly the tentacles at the boss inside goes down, it looks like a bug. Or maybe the boss' HP is too low. Even the monks outside are more difficult than that boss for some odd reason...

When I first played through that area I thought they were supposed to be invulnerable and expected they would simply withdraw once the Eyeless were defeated nearby.

 

@Jojobobo: You say WM 1 up-scaled is a piece of cake on solo PotD. I am curious on how you deal with the two Spirit-ambushes in the Battery(at mine & at bathtub), those always tend to rip me apart even with a group. Sometimes getting off the first ability/potion is a gamble or risk being chain-stunned for the next 10 minutes. Perhaps I am just going there too early, I tend to play more reckless every replay for some reason.

 

I find the AI to be doing better when they have ranged units or teleporters(ex. monks and spirits). Then they can really focus fire somebody they manage to CC.

The AI might do better if it had access to more rogue enemies that tried to use Coordinated Positioning or the mage's spell variant, to be able to grab your squishy ranger deep into their ranks, and to prevent bottle-necking, cornering and split-pulling. That would also serve the purpose of increasing the value of having such spells/abilities yourself, to counter such tactics.

[Jojobobo]

@Jojobobo: You say WM 1 up-scaled is a piece of cake on solo PotD. I am curious on how you deal with the two Spirit-ambushes in the Battery(at mine & at bathtub), those always tend to rip me apart even with a group. Sometimes getting off the first ability/potion is a gamble or risk being chain-stunned for the next 10 minutes. Perhaps I am just going there too early, I tend to play more reckless every replay for some reason.

The one in the mine is entirely avoidable and is based on picking up the key, so I didn't bother. I do try to clear every map (and have done apart from Stalwart at the start of WM part I and the Luminescent Caves) but when it's such a massive pain in the arse and you've maxed out your journal entries for that enemy type then I don't really see the point. Besides, my character is a little lacking in fortitude so the Phantom stuns tend to kill me pretty fast - the game as far as I'm aware offers very little to protect against stun (I don't think there's any Prayer Against scrolls for it, but I may be wrong).

 

The one in the baths I think I got lucky and got an invisibility proc on Cape of the Master Mystic, so I ran back into the bath room, blocked the door with summons, charmed the Phantoms/Sirens with Munacra Arret and when I could summoned the animated weapons to pick off the rest. If you can avoid being stun locked then Dragon Thrashed makes short work of them anyway. Once the group nearest the baths are killed, you can then focus on the group in the corridor.

 

If I were to do it again, I think just dropping a confuse scroll is easiest way to manage the group, and should grant you similar positioning to what I mentioned.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

There's only the priest's litany against stun. But there are a lot of items with either high defense bonuses against prone/stun (like boots of stability) or preservation items (including two shields that lets you stack preservation) or even Breakout items (-50% or -33% duration) so that prone and stun shouldn't be a such a big issue as paralyze or petrify can be. And the sanguine plate can also be good in such encounters: Frenzy raises your fortitude defense quite a bit via +8 to the related stats.

[Jojobobo]

Boots of Stability only protect against prone and push (or at least that's what it says in their description), and I do use Blaidh Golan in such encounters but I still found not being able to do anything pretty brutal even at +50/100 to my defences while stunned on solo - particularly when there's multiple Phantoms in some mobs. At least with petrification and paralysis there's Prayer Against Imprisonment, which with decent Int lasts a good while and most of the enemies who do paralyse are pretty fragile (or some don't really require it anyway - like the Skuldraks whose effect doesn't last long in the first case). The only thing I know of that actually wards against stun is the Looped Rope - but by the time you get that you're past most of the stunning enemies in the game.

 

It's reasons like this that it's beyond me people actually manage to do solo ToI (and I certainly would never play it), as anyone of these encounters can extremely easily kill you. My only guess is some enemy types are avoided in such playthroughs to a large extent. I think paralyse/stun/petrification is my main problem with Pillars, as the effects often last incredibly long and it just feels like a cheap and easy win for the enemy (or for the player, if they use them consistently). Overall these effects greatly diminish my enjoyment of the game as they don't represent any kind of fair or interesting challenge, and not everyone wants to be using a Priest in every playthrough.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Jojobobo

[darkly180]

@FluxWing

I gotta thank Boeroer's posts for showing me how to use items with the Preservation property to achieve functional immunity to stun. For the benefit of those who didn't see the posts, you need a shield with the Preservation property (Level 5 Od Nua and last level of Od Nua each have one) and one other item with the property: helm, ring, boots or armor. This is because properties on items normally don't stack, but properties on weapons or shields always stack. So if you minus the penalty from prone or stun (-30) and add the bonus from two items with Preservation (+50 x 2), then you get a +70 bonus to defense when prone or stunned. In my experience, the bonus doesn't reliably proc all of the time, but when it does, there's little that can touch you.

 

@Jojobobo

Totally agree that upscaled WM1 was fine and even comfortable for high level soloers, but parts of upscaled WM2 really took it up a notch. Annoying to see even Kith in bounties fights with Dragon defenses. I also used Confuse to open up the fight (soloing Wizard) and used scrolls to keep the mobs engaged with each other while I buffed before nuking. For my Kraken fight, comfortable in normal POTD, I got a shock dealing with upscaled tentacles, upscaled Eyeless and an upscaled Kraken that had close to 1000 endurance points. I don't think upscaled Eyeless in that group can be dealt with solo without paralyse scrolls plus accuracy buff AND Abydon's Hammer, with the unique "Kill Eyeless on Crit" property. They have too much durability and each of their Days of Future Past Sentinel Death Ray (a super buffed-up Ray of Fire) can one-shot any soloer (through repeated tics).

 

Just finished that Kraken fight and it was harrowing.

[Jojobobo]

I just did the Eyeless at Iron Flail Fort and I didn't find them too bad, at least with a Chanter. I guess I'll see how I fare with the later groups in WM part II, but with a Chanter at least you can keep one or two of them occupied with the animated weapons (leaving one weapon off to the side of the group for when they ground pound in case the others die, and if they do bringing it in) and let Dragon Thrashed do the work. You should be able to more or less continually keep the weapons up and avoid their damage, from there it's only a matter of time until they fall. I won't be using Abydon's Hammer (I'm focusing on a specific class of weapons which I'll set out when I do a class build) so I guess I'll be getting a double challenge more or less.

[Dr <3]

With Chanter is better go full def mode and let chant and evocation take care of monsters. Abbydon hammer is not so useful vs eyless imho, since you have to CRIT them, in upscaled potd is not so easy to land paralyze AND the crit hit. At least this is my solo experience

[darkly180]

I ran a solo chanter previously and it was an easier experience. First got rid of all the tentacles in a corner with Dragon Thrashed. Apparently the Eyeless don't appear until you inflict some damage on the Kraken. After the tentacles were down, started damaging the Kraken a little and as soon as the Eyeless appeared, tanked them with the Level 4 summons Animated Weapons, while burning them down with Dragon Thrashed. I totally forgot to use the Matron's Horn which would summon 3 Crag Ogres. Paralyze scrolls do help as they reduce Reflex, making it easier to have Dragon Thrashed crit on the Eyeless. Usually had to throw a Moonwell scroll on the summons to help them survive. I guess the chanter could crit the Eyeless using Abydon's Hammer with Scrolls of Valor or Potions of Eldritch Aim, but it was quite satisfying to burn them down. For non-chanters, there is always the risk of running out of DPS spells for the tentacles, the Eyeless and the Kraken. My wizard was almost empty when I killed the Kraken. Multi-phase fights like these are when chanters really shine.

[Jojobobo]

Doesn't sound like the fights too bad then for a solo Chanter, luckily for me. The Abbey of the Fallen Moon solo is such a damn grind with all the monks, every single mob is a pain.

 

For the Matron's Horn, where exactly do you get it? Or do you have to be chums with the WM part I Ogres and then it's available on their merchant? I've googled this and searched the forums, but I can't seem to find any mention of where it actually is (though if it is sold by the Ogres that may be a problem as I killed them all a little). It would certainly be handy, as all the other summons from the main game are nothing but distractions at best to upscaled WM part II mobs.

[Dr <3]

To obtain the Ogre horn,:

-resolve peacefully the Ogre cave ( don't slay the matron and other ogres)

- after forging abby hammer mathron will come at forge with other 2 ogres offering you the horn for help

 

( Note that you can solve the whole Ogre cave without killing a single Ogre ((just some languefath and Ice elemetals)) , in that case you will be "rewarded" with the presente of an Ogre merchant)

 

More or less you can do the same with redceres troops, the chief will give you a "trabuquet shot" or something if you solve things peacefully

 

Note2: did you know that if you are a human berath Priest you can actually talk to the vampire gang outside the Ogre cave and persuade them to help you? They will slain all the ogres at the entrance for you and offerta to sell some goods...

[Boeroer]

Wait - the vampires in the south of the cave with all the darguls? With the female leader? Sweet - didn't know thay.

[Jojobobo]

To obtain the Ogre horn,:

-resolve peacefully the Ogre cave ( don't slay the matron and other ogres)

- after forging abby hammer mathron will come at forge with other 2 ogres offering you the horn for help

I thought it'd be something along those lines, a pity I'm playing an aggressive shoot people on sight character for this run (I wanted to go more or less completionist in a combat sense). I also killed everyone at the Iron Flail Fort too for the same reasons. Good find on the human Berath Priest bit too.

 

What exactly does the Trebuchet Shot do? Again, there's zero information on it anywhere as far as I can see.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Dr <3]

Let's say that you can unlock up to 3 "special ability" that works ONLY IN THE EYLESS CANYON ( so the utility is more for fun that actually needed)

- Ogre matron horn : solve Ogre cave " peacefully",( don't kill Ogre matron) accept Ogre help after forging hammer; you can summon 2 or 3 Ogre that fights for you

- trabuquet shot : solve iron flail fort " peacefully " ( don't kill other wacher); you get another ability that do aoe dmg + burn dot

- cannon shot: if you repair the cannone of the tower; you get an ability that do good aoe dmg

[Dr <3]

On a side note: i readed somewhere that if you repair the cannons before approch the iron flail fort, you could actually demolish the front Door with a cannon shot!

 

@boeroer: yes yes, the band of paladins fampyrs that usually wipe your all party

[KDubya]

I've had the cannons blow open the gate into the Iron Flail. It goes well with a "kill them all" approach as you literally blast in the front door and take on everyone at the same time.

[Jojobobo]

Yeah I blew the front gates open before killing everyone too, it was good fun. I don't think it's actually explained how you signal to the cannons to make the shot, which is a little weird (or maybe it is and my memory is failing me).

Edited September 29, 2016 by Jojobobo