How is backstab damage calculated with DW?

[NeoSoul]

So I ended up deciding to stick to the rogue for my first playthrough in hard difficulty and grab the companions that are already in the game (I had started a game with a rogue and one with a wizard where I hired some and they weren't very effective at lvl 2 and I possibly messed up the stats).  I might go with Wizard on my 2nd playthrough as I'll have a better idea of which spells I like the most (although it depends on party composition, right now my Wizard is mostly doing CCs to let my rogue hit harder).

 

I bought the magic stiletto from Gilded Vale and have upgraded it to ''Fine'' so far.  I'm using a scimetar in my main hand that I upgraded dmg+1 (+15% dmg).  I don't like switching weapons too much.  I'm going with some sort of assassin build and I often open with a backstab (stay stealth, pull with the tank and land a backstab opener as the mobs start engaging).  I just killed some fire mobs that gave me the last component I needed to make a +25% fire enchant on a weapon.  I read that all weapons are basically the same at first and just some come with some enchants on them already.  I'm wondering if I should put that burning enchant on my Offhand Stiletto or on my Sabre or just save it for an other weapon later on.

 

How does the backstab work with Dual Wield?  Is it only main hand damage (if so, then the main hand would benifit more from having a slower harder hitting sword)?  Does it merge both weapons' damage and do an average with them?  Does it alternate with MH/OH from one backstab to an other?  I was unable to find the answer anywhere so far.

 

I read that many people like to open with some ranged weapon for a bigger burst but I'm not too crazy about that for the moment (plus wasting time switching weapons, I don't feel like taking the talent to reduce the switching time).  Is sabre a good MH weapon or are there some that are better for it?  Some build went double Stilettos but I'm afraid my backstab damage and crits would be awful with two of those (the DR penetration seems nice though).  I just don't want to use that fire enchant on the Sabre only to realize that it was a bad idea and wasted OR use it on my Stiletto and it not affect backstabs in any way making it so it would have been better on a MH weapon.

[Loren Tyr]

In principle you get a Backstab on the first two attack, so with Dual-Wielding it would be with one with each weapon. Note that you also still get one if you became unstealthed before the actual attack started, IF you clicked to attack that enemy while under stealth. See my post here for more details and some caveats regarding Backstab with Strike abilities: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/87866-backstab-rogue/?p=1823318

 

If you're going for backstab ranged isn't ideal; it does work with ranged weapons but you still need to be within 2 meters, and with ranged weapons it is more of a hassle to ensure that you're close enough. Though the high base damage of pistol or arquebus does make for a lot of backstab damage. Sabre is good as well (though heavy-armoured kith do tend to have quite high slashing DR, so keep an eye on that). One alternative you could consider is using a reach weapon (quarterstaff or pike). As a two-handed weapon it has high base damage for your backstab to multiply, and what you could then do as well is to come up to the enemy from behind your tank, keeping that tank between you and the enemy and your rogue relatively safe during combat. You still get two backstabs this way (unless the enemy dies before the second one occurs, obviously). Since you're not flanking the enemy though (not with your rogue at least), it would be advisable to get some status effect on enemies to enable sneak attack (Painful Interdiction is nice for this, and gives a good range of debuffs to your enemies as well).

 

On the other hand, stilettos would indeed not be advisable. The DR penetration is certainly useful, but fast weapons like stilettos get their damage from doing a lot of weaker attacks in a short time. Backstab is still going to only boost the first two, so it won't do nearly as much extra damage as it would with weapons with more base damage. Whatever you choose though, do get a Lash enchantment (fire or otherwise) on the weapons you're using for it. Damage for those is calculated after damage bonuses from backstab, sneak attack, etc. are applied, so they get a nice boost from the backstab in particular as well. 

[Boeroer]

Try out Firebrand (summoned weapon from Forgemaster Gloves, you can buy them in Definace Bay at the smith of the Crucible Knights after solving their first quest). It's great for backstabs. It has a huge base damage, which is good for backstabbing, anbd you can get two backstab swings instead of one gunshot. It also works with Scion of Flame (boosting damage further) and does burn damage - most enemies' burn DR won't be higher than their slash/pierce/crush DR. In fact there are a lot of enemies whose burn DR is lower.

 

It also has Annihilation, meaning it add +0.5 to your crit damage multiplier. Since rogues crit more often than any other class, this is also nice.

 

And it works with every Weapon Focus - so you can easily choose any Weapon Focus you like - Firebrand will work with it. There's no need to build your rogue around it. You can keep it's uses for backstabbing or for enemie weak to burn damage and fight with any other weapon of your choice in other fights. One example is using Tall Grass for normaly fights and having Firebrand for pierce immune/resistant foes. But watch out: this combo doesn't work against Flame Blights.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Boeroer

[Loren Tyr]

Doesn't activating Firebrand break stealth though (I don't recall exactly, but most abilities like that do)? That would only make it an option for backstab through invisibility effects like Shadowing Beyond. Though it'd still be a nice option for a Pike-wielding rogue regardless, to break out the Firebrand as needed after the initial backstabbing is done. 

[Boeroer]

Yes, that's right. Sadly only invisibility works with Firebrand, not stealth. I used it with the Cloak of the Master Mystic: used stealth to do a Backstab with my normal weapon (Hours of St. Rumbalt, also annihilating and prone on crit), then every now and then summoned Firebrand. When I received a crit I countered it with a mighty burning backstab from invisibility. That was when the cloak still had this endless invisibility bug. But I think it would still work. Hours of St. Rumbalt with a Doemenel rogue is a lot of fun by the way. You quickly set up deathblows just by using one Blinding or Crippling Strike and then disable with prone. I used him for taking out single priority targets such as casters and so on.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Boeroer