[3.03] Issue with Knock Down (and Necrotic Lance?)

[PangaeaACDC]

I started this game on the 3.03 patch, after playing through for the first time on 3.02. Several times I've noticed that Eder's Knock Down ability is causing a great deal more havoc than intended, including knocking out (proning) our own team members. I'm getting a expandable list of his Knock Down, meaning he hits several guys at once. Not always, but sometimes. Don't know what triggers it, but I've noticed that in several occasions Consegrated Ground has triggered too. That may just be a coincidence, though, as he has an item that triggers that on crits (some boots I think).

 

Can't imagine savegames would help here, as it happens randomly during combat.

 

Particularly in these really tough encounters, like the Dweller (who hosed us), it doesn't exactly help to get half the team knocked out

 

Yesterday I also noticed that enemy wizards' Necrotic Lance did something similar, or at least tried to. This spell is supposed to be targeted at one enemy, just like Knock Down. So why are many characters hit? :confused:

 

In one of the screenshots Eder fires off two Knock Downs in quick succession, and I've highlighted that he only has 2 per encounter uses, and 1 is spent.

 

http://imgur.com/oh4fE5k

http://imgur.com/88qIpVm

http://imgur.com/dQ8VhyZ

http://imgur.com/xmFXxjA

http://imgur.com/DQfO6fa

http://imgur.com/6LBlExN

 

I am on Linux. The instruction in the sticky for system specs doesn't really do much on my end, but this might help:

inxi -Fxz

System:    Host: thunderstruck Kernel: 3.13.0-37-generic x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.8.2) 
           Desktop: Gnome Distro: Linux Mint 17.1 Rebecca
Machine:   Mobo: MSI model: Z87-G43 (MS-7816) version: 1.0 Bios: American Megatrends version: V1.6 date: 11/27/2013
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i5-4670K CPU (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 27201.2 
           Clock Speeds: 1: 800.00 MHz 2: 800.00 MHz 3: 800.00 MHz 4: 800.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA GK104 [GeForce GTX 770] bus-ID: 01:00.0 
           X.Org: 1.15.1 drivers: nvidia (unloaded: fbdev,vesa,nouveau) Resolution: 1920x1080@60.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: GeForce GTX 770/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 367.35 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset High Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
           Card-2: NVIDIA GK104 HDMI Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.13.0-37-generic
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller 
           driver: r8169 ver: 2.3LK-NAPI port: d000 bus-ID: 03:00.0
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 2560.5GB (61.0% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: ST2000VX000 size: 2000.4GB 
           2: id: /dev/sdb model: KINGSTON_SH103S3 size: 240.1GB 3: id: /dev/sdc model: ST3320620AS size: 320.1GB 
Partition: ID: / size: 30G used: 6.8G (25%) fs: ext4 ID: /home size: 141G used: 124G (93%) fs: ext4 
           ID: swap-1 size: 1.08GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap 
RAID:      No RAID devices detected - /proc/mdstat and md_mod kernel raid module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8C mobo: 27.8C 
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A 
Info:      Processes: 170 Uptime: 3:59 Memory: 2132.7/7929.6MB Runlevel: 2 Gcc sys: 4.8.4 Client: Shell inxi: 1.8.4 

[Loren Tyr]

Hmm, that is rather puzzling, though I recall having seen some mention of similar issues before. It is quite possible (also given how effects are implemented) that when the Knock Down activation coincides with the Consecrated Ground pulse the Knock Down effect gets applied to that pulse as well; it is a bit odd in that case that it would then affect additional enemies as well, though presumably that is explained by each effect individually checking whether it applies to a given target in the pulse AOE. I'll see if I can replicate this tonight (might be tricky to get the timing right though).

 

In the meantime I would also suggest that you run the game file validation thing in Steam (provided you are using Steam, obviously), it might also be that there's just a dodgy game file in your installation somehow. For some reason the Necrotic Lance seems to be behaving like a beam, hitting everything in the path from caster to target (that's what I gather from the screenshots at least; Edér's the one wearing the Stag helmet, right?). Only plausible reason I can think of why it would do that is game file corruption of some kind.

 

By the way, the two Knock Downs in succession is normal if you're dual wielding, since Knock Down (and many other such abilities) apply to a full attack. You can see in the combat log that the damage type is also different: one Knock Down was with your main weapon, the other with the Larder Door.

[PangaeaACDC]

I don't use Steam and never will, but I don't see why the game files should be corrupted. The game runs very well apart from these small issues, and I downloaded and installed 3.02 from GOG, and then patched it with 3.03 when that came out. Don't use GOG Galaxy either, so if there is a verification process then that is out of bonds too.

 

Some of those double Knock-downs could be due to Larder door then, because I used that in the beginning, then changed to a shield we found later that was better. I'll keep an eye out for more of these mass knock downs, as it's obviously not great to have several team members get proned in the middle of tough combat.

 

Eder has the Stag Helmet, that is correct. Don't know if it was a lucky random drop or not, but I killed off a backer NPC in Defiance Bay and the guy had that helmet. I had half a mind to hack all these buggars down, but soon realised there would be serious reputation consequences when another guy saw it. But that one was alone... Muahahahhaha

[Loren Tyr]

There are also less murderous (well, less unprovoked anyway) ways of getting the Stag helmet, there's one in Dyrford Crossing for example. 

 

You can sometimes get weird glitches if game files are off actually, though usually they aren't really corrupted as such but just the wrong version or something (ie. it didn't update properly when it should have). I agree it's not a likely scenario in any case, though. And for the Consecrated Ground + Knock Down I'm reasonably certain that's just those two interacting strangely, it's been reported before. It was supposed to be fixed now though: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/87360-shod-in-faith/?hl=%2Bconsecrated+%2Bground. It's mostly the Necrotic Lance acting like a beam that I can't place. Anyway, like I said I'll see if I can reproduce either one, try to find out why it's happening. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Loren Tyr

[Loren Tyr]

I did a quick check of the source files for Necrotic Lance, which gives a partial answer: the Skeletal Wizard Necrotic Lance (which has a separate implementation) actually is implemented with an AttackBeam, whereas the normal Necrotic Lance uses AttackRanged (the WM1 Substantial Phantom and Lagufaeth versions also use AttackRanged, though the minor spellbinding of Necrotic Lance is again an AttackBeam; not sure which item actually uses that though, if any). So that answers why it's happening, although it leaves me a bit puzzled as to why it's different.

 

If any passing dev reads this: any confirmation on whether this is actually intentional?

[Sking]

I haven't been able to reproduce the 'Knockdown' issue. I could reproduce the 'Necrotic Lance' and no the skeleton wizards shouldn't be casting it as a beam. Must just be an old version of the spell that we missed when we updated it. If anyone can get better steps for the 'Knockdown' issue it'd help me out a lot. I'll keep at it though and keep you guys/gals updated.

 

- Sking

[Loren Tyr]

I've reproduced the Knock Down + Consecrated Ground issue, a savegame with setup is here: https://www.sendspace.com/file/z9g62j and see attached image. The timing is a bit finnicky but it's quite doable. It does seem to confirm that when the Consecrated Ground pulse coincides with the Knock Down attack, the Knock Down StatusEffect is active on the character and gets applied (as a general "on hit, perform prone attack") to any other 'attack' as well, including Consecrated Ground. This suggests that it also applies to other special attacks (which I confirmed with Crippling Strike, see attached), and probably also other pulse attacks though I didn't try that (pulse attacks that affect enemies rather than allies presumably would apply the Knock Down or whatever to enemies instead, logically).

 

To reproduce from the attached save, I did the following. First, set Edér's Resolve to -2 to make him easier to crit and set his Constitution to 200 and do HealParty to give him plenty of health and ensure that he doesn't get Knocked Down by the Justiciar. Now attack the Justiciar in front of him and then stop attacking (AI is off as well), so he is ready to attack when I need him to. Wait until the Justiciar lands a crit to trigger Consecrated Ground, this will take a couple of hits since the ACC-DEF differential isn't enormous but he'll get there eventually. Once he does, we get to the finnicky bit. If the count is (0s / pulse) . . (1s) . . (2s) . . (3s / pulse), then you need to click to attack with Knock Down on about the first . after (2s). The attack animation needs to land the hit just about when the pulse flashes. I actually got the hang of it fairly quickly and could get the effect reliably from first or second Knock Down on most attempts.