[CLASS BUILD] The Witch Doctor (mid-ranged dps monk disabler)

[Boeroer]

Good question. I didn't test, but it should.

[dgray62]

Are the glittering gauntlets still bugged?

[Boeroer]

I successfully tested them with carnage, so I assume they work fine now.

[dgray62]

Thanks, Boeroer. I'll try to get them the next time I land a legendary adventure.

[bebeto]

This Witch Doctor build is one of the strongest i play so far.Really recommended by me.Its best to play him in 1st frontline,dont worry he can tank alot.Its best to use plate armor, his dps will be still insane and he can still hit fast enough,so sanguine plate is the way to go.With such build u have the liberty to target at will and kill what u consider its most dangerous for u and your party wich is a huge advantage.

To make game even easier all u need is a priest for his imba buffs and a cipher for block pain.He can reach 30+ dr so yeah hes not just an insane damage dealer he can be insanely tanky.U can down his resolve to minimum and put in something else once priest gets to master holy meditation to can use it every battle without need of rest,so no need to worry about concentration.

[Vladislav]

This build available for solo?

[Boeroer]

I would build it less squishy, take Veteran's Recovery and some defensive talents - then yes. What works great with chokepoints is summons and Dichotomous Soul as "tanks" while you fire with fists. Kiting is also easy with this.

[hansvedic]

Boeroer,

First off, thank you so much for this great guide, one among many!

I have a quick question for you: do you think the Witch Doctor could work as a Hearth Orlan? If so, would you change his stats at all to accomodate the loss of accuracy vs. certain enemies?  Or do you think the hit to might (-9%) is too large a tradeoff for the extra crits?

[dgray62]

I wonder if the crit difference would be that big. Yes, the hearth orlan gets a 10% bonus when attacking the same enemy as a companion, but the boreal dwarf gets the big accuracy boost against wilders and primordials, which also yields extra crits. And given the fact that monks' DPS is very dependent on STR, you'd likely miss the 3 points lost. Also, one of the fun things about the Witch Doctor is being able to quickly take out those annoying back row squishies, mages and archers, once you activate the long pain. Usually I have the rest of my party occupied with the front row melee foes while my witch doctor obliterates everyone else. It's loads of fun, but may not be a role that a hearth orlan is best suited for, at least in a min-max sense. But it would surely be fun anyway, and is probably worth trying!

[dgray62]

Boeroer, please kindly excuse me answering a question addressed to you. Your Witch Doctor build is my favorite so far, and I couldn't resist contributing an answer based on my experience thus far with the build.

[Boeroer]

@dgray62: No problem at all. Glad that you like the build.

 

@hansvedic: You are welcome.
Surely a hearth orlan would work. I honestly can't say if if it would be better or worse (it really depends on how you play your char and which targets you pick - like dgray62 said), but the difference would be marginal I guess. 

[dgray62]

A hearth orlan witch doctor would look cool if you picked the blue skin color available for orlans!

 

I am sure Boeroer is right that the DPS difference between the boreal dwarves would be marginal. The hearth orlan would likely have a higher crit rate, provided of course that you micromanaged to make sure s/he was hitting the same enemy as other party members. Prior to level 7, this wouldn't make much difference due to how crits are calculated with unarmed attacks, but your DPS would rise once you get the long pain. Whether this would outweigh the loss from -3 STR is an open question. It probably wouldn't be much either way. [Response extended using edit feature]

Edited August 11, 2017 by dgray62

[hansvedic]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

After some thinking and calculations, I decided to go with a Human Witch Doctor for Fighting Spirit (if it has its duration boosted by INT, then that makes it even better). I also dropped constitution down two points and put those into dexterity for a little extra speed. Maybe a mistake to do this, but we'll see.

So far I'm enjoying my playthrough with him, however.

Thanks again!

[hansvedic]

Sorry for the double-post and potential necroing of this thread.

 

I am revisiting this build, and I want to make a version that is a frontline monk, a tank if you will, and I am trying to determine just how much higher to raise resolve and constitution, as well as what to lower, and by how much.

Right now, I have two disparate ideas for this tanky TLP user: a Tank/DPS/CC build as a human and a Tank/DPS/Retaliation version as a Fire Godlike.

 

The human version would be very similar to the original witch doctor, except I might switch out the Girdle of the Driving Wave for the Belt of Chimes (concentration boost) or another defensive belt such as the Looped Rope or the Girdle of Mortal Protection. I am also considering the Company Captain's Cap for this build, but it likely wouldn't reach its full potential until a priest gets Crowns for the Faithful.

The Fire Godlike version is one that I have wanted to make for awhile, except that the challenge with this idea is that wounds cannot be used as freely due to wanting to stack wounds for Fire Wheel's bonus to retaliation and Blood Testament. I would still pick up the non-wound using CC abilities, but the ability to spam Torment's Reach and Force of Anguish would likely be greatly diminished excepting those situations where damage intake is constant and fairly large. This version would also have more constitution than the human version, as well as less dexterity, in all likelihood.

 

The basic idea behind why I am trying to develop a tank who uses TLP is that I want to be able to hold up (weaker) melee units while taking out priority targets with TLP, especially in areas with chokepoints. In other words, I don't want to run and gun; I want to tank and spank.

Any thoughts or insights would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Boeroer]

Two things to consider:

 

1. Since The Long Pain is a ranged weapon you won't have engagement slots. That means that enemies can just run past you while you want to stop and tank them - no stopping of movement and disengagement attacks from your side.

 

2. Turning Wheel doesn't work with the Long Pain - so I don't know if Fire Godlike + Long Pain is such a good combination.

[dreamrider]

Boeroer,

 

I keep writing a nice note, with my background story, asking for your critique of my (semi-) solo adaptation, then blowing it all away when I accidentally change page or something.

So now, bare bones.

 

Loved your build!  (All your builds, actually, but I have a special place for Ranged Monk, due to story from early Pillars days that I ain't gonna write out again.)

 

I've been away from Pillars a long time, since well before WM I & II.  But eager to come back now.

 

Please critique my proposed (semi-) solo Ranged Monk build.

It may not look much like it, but it is based off your Witch Doctor.  Modified per all the comments in the thread (mostly yours) for converting for solo.

 

SEX:  Whatever.  Probably female.

 

RACE:  Elf.  (+1 Dex, +1 Per)  

SUBRACE:  Wood Elf.  (+5 Acc, +5 Dfl, +5 Rfl @ 4m+)

[1st Alternate was Human.  2nd Alternate was Moon.]

 

CLASS:  Monk.  (+1 stealth, +1 athletics, +1 survival)

 

ATTRIBUTES:  MIG          16   +1  b/g Living Lands   17

                         CON         11                                       11

                         DEX          13   +1  race Elf                 14                    

                         PER          12   +1  race Elf                 13

                         INT            15                                      15

                         RES            8                                        8

[it is hard to squeeze those 5 extra points for Resolve out of your original build!]

 

CULTURE:  The Living Lands.  (+1 MIG)

 

BACKGROUND:  Scientist.  (+1 Lore, +1 Mechanics)

[Could just as well be Merchant, but Living lands is the only place you can be Scientist, so what the hell.]

[speaking of "What the hell", Scientist? The Living Lands?  Seems real odd.  Naturalist, sorta, maybe?]

 

Initial Skills become:  +1 each Skill.

 

Will take Focus: Peasant Weapons as an early Talent, of course.

 

Do you recommend Swift Strikes, or Torments Reach as the first Ability? 

[Gotta live to get to Lvl 7, after all.]

Edited July 3, 2018 by dreamrider

[Boeroer]

Hi!

 

I would use Swift Strikes first because in the early game the foes are not that numerous but hard and you will have to split and pull some enemies (if you don't want to skip fights) - and more attack speed for a certain time seems to be more useful than the Torment's Reach cone. Especially because you can't line up multiple enemies for the cone like in a party without high move speed. For a solo Long Pain build that uses Torment's Reach you need high move speed (Long Stride and/or /Boots of Speed and/or /Fast Runner) - then you can run away, the enemy will follow in a line/cone and you can turn around and nuke them with Torment's Reach like crazy. THat is very powerful. But without the move speed and also Long Pain it's not as effective as it can be. But even on a single target its 50% lash and the Full Attack are great... so... hard choice, but I'd still stick to Swift Strikes as first pick I guess.

 

Stats look good. Weapon Focus as first is not bad. But since this is a solo build I would maybe choose Veteran's Recovery as first choice.

 

You have to avoid hard CC at all costs. Since you can run around and avoid too many hits while attacking from range with the Long Pain, hard CC will totally screw you up. So I recommend stuff like Fenwalkers, Blaidh Golan etc. which work really well with Clarity of Agony to make sure afflcitions only last for a very short time. If you combine it with Crucible of Suffering you can combine very short afflcitions with an additional defense boost. This would also stack with Duality of Mortal Presence. High fortitude is your best friend. Getting paralyzed/petrified/stunned/prone can mean knockout - and all of those target fortitude in most cases. 

 

For a solo build one can also consider to use Weapon & Shield Style and switch on Duality(Deflection) insteat of (other defenses) at the start of battles. COmbine this with Aila Braccia. All voley from ranged enemies (this includes all single target spells that target deflection) will get turned into miusses and reflected back to the attacker. THis can make encounters such as Lagufaeth and Thaos a LOT easier. After the initial shots at you you could summon Long Pain and start punching. Just an idea though.

 

Hope you have fun!

[dreamrider]

Thanks.  Maybe I will keep you appraised from time to time.

Although, since I have been away from the system for nearly 3 years, I'll start on Normal, so I won't have lots to brag on for awhile.

 

Actually, I HAVE started.  Did the campfire / biawac a couple of nights ago. Managed to save Heodan and get him into the ruins.  I don't think I EVER did that back when I was fooling with v.1.0x !  Also remembered to return to camp and trade EVERYTHING disposable to Heodan for ready coin BEFORE we picked up the waterskin.  I know I always used to forget to do things in that order.

 

What armor do you like on a ranged (Long Pain oriented) Monk, in general and across the early play?  

I mulled on it a bit.  I decided the beginning padded armor of the homeland (Living Lands) was a good early monk level of DR / Dex penalty.  Without planning to go either lower OR higher until some enchanted clothing or padded is available.

(Would really like to see an expansion or DLC that took us exploring The Living Lands.  Very intrigued.  I didn't miss the fact that monks from most lands start with just clothing; from The Living Lands they start with padded armor.  Must be a nice neighborhood.)

 

Hmm.  Excellent guidance about hard CC, and the opposing necessity of fortitude defense for solo monks.  How convenient that the Might and Constitution attributes favored by all monks for damage and Wounds reasons are also the prime stats for fortitude.  I may have to look at maybe shuffling another point back to Might.  Also, it will certainly color my choices of ready-to-eat snacks.

 

Say, given that Intellect affects durations of effects in ways positive to the PC, do you know if higher Intellect shortens the duration of adverse CC effects?  My guess is "No, that's just weird !", but thought I'd ask.

 

Re Weapon & Shield suggestion:  I don't think the early version of Pillars I played several years back had the retrain option implemented. 

Can I switch between Two Weapon Style (which I know I like for a monk) and Weapon & Shield with the retrain option, to try it out?

Obviously you think there are some particular portions of the story / sequence where it may be the superior technique. 

Are there stretches of the story, other than the very late battles you mentioned, where you think it might be particularly appropriate to switch /switch back?

I must admit, from an RP perspective, I rather like the idea of a monk, 'studious fighter', who can meditate/train to change his/her fighting style at need.

Actually, a new monk feature … um, talent, I think … that allowed you to learn an alternate fighting style, and change either on-the-fly, or at the start of any encounter, would be a cool addition !

 

For some reason, in this game, I've always absolutely loved the idea of Ranged Monk.  (I tend to play Rangers/Archers in other games; my Torchlight gal is almost famous.) 

Back in the 1.0x days, I did it with hunting bows and careful stalking, ambushing, and kiting.  But vanilla Torment's Reach was the only 'sorta-ranged' special monk thing.  REALLY looking forward to mastering The Long Pain !

Edited June 26, 2018 by dreamrider

[dreamrider]

Boeroer,

Unrelated to my own tangential mod build we've been discussing, I have a suggestion for your build presentation format.

 

I think it would really help folks who are thinking of trying the build (or any of your builds, for that matter) if you listed (or numbered) the abilities / talents in the order you recommend taking them.  (If it is somewhat optional, you could add an asterisk or something.)

 

This may apply to some of the other progressive build decisions, as well, as in "Go here early, so you get this item early", or "build up your lore skill first".

[dreamrider]

My God, I had forgotten from 3 years back JUST how tough that darned Bear is for an early character !

[dreamrider]

My early ability/talents selections were

 1) A - Swift Strikes

 2) T - Lightning Strikes

 3) A - Torment's Reach

 4) T - Fast Runner

 

I've about come to the conclusion that these 4 choices, and the sequence of them, are critical to soloing the early play.  Since this is a ranged build that relies as much as possible on whittling down the opponent's before they can engage you (the ONLY way you are going to survive the Skulder King in the Temple of Eothas), I think I made at least one poor choice.  Given that I started with Swift Strikes as the original ability, I'm thinking I should have deferred Torment's Reach to level 5 and taken The Long Stride at level 3.  I had a hard time with critters I should have been able to avoid / shoot down catching me too soon.  Then I might be able to defer Fast Runner, and take a damaging Talent like Weapon Focus: Peasant, or Two Weapon Style, or even Apprentice's Sneak Attack.

 

Also, after seeing the actual radius of effect of Torment's Reach on this build (Intellect 15), I'm thinking I could easily pull one, or perhaps two points off of Intellect with little effect on the core capabilities of the character.  Probably reassign a point to Perception, and if I carve out a 2nd point, to Resolve.

 

I'm almost feeling like a restart with the aboves.

 

Comments / Suggestions?

 

 

Totally unrelated question:  When you get a dialogue choice (suppressed) that begins "[Eothas] …", what is the requirement?  Having a strong believer along doesn't cut it; I've tried bring Eder with me to the Candle Altar in the Temple, and he doesn't get the option either.  Do you need to have a Priest of Eothas with you?  (Boy, THAT would be an interesting MC playthrough !)  Or do you need an actual avatar of Eothas with you?  Which seems an impossible extreme for the Gilded Vale encounters where I have seen this choice.

Edited July 3, 2018 by dreamrider

[Boeroer]

You need a Priest of Eothas (as MC) for those dialogue choices.

 

Yes, for a solo game The Long Stride is very helpful. The ealry game is the toughest part where you have to kite and pull. Fast Runner + Long Stride is also not bad: you will still be faster than most enemies if you get blinded or hobbled.

[dreamrider]

I'm having a hard time using potions, without getting whacked more than the potion is worth. 

 

(We will leave aside the question of just WHY you cannot buff with a potion until AFTER you have revealed yourself / started combat.  You can have a quick bite, maybe shoot up a little, but you cannot wash it down with anything more potent than a Beer.  However, I will graciously accept that that is Obsidian's illogical dictate.  <whine, whine>)

 

Is there a trick to getting in an essential quick gulp?  Is it because I am solo (so far) and don't have pal(s) to distract while I buff.

Is it purely a finicky timing thing?

 

I think I could / would make great use of that one-time duplication (+40 deflection) juice, if only I could manage to chug one down BEFORE the first swipe interrupts me.

 

Is it possibly because I have not so far been using the action-stacking feature, which I don't really understand?  (Time to dig in the manual and the wiki.)

 

 

Earlier question that got overlooked / didn't pull in a response/suggestion:

- What armor do you like on a ranged (Long Pain oriented) Monk, in general and across the early play?

(I find I rather like the padded armor outfit that comes with a Living Lands monk...but perhaps that is mostly the look of it <grin>.  Don't know if the 4 DR [plus the look] is worth the action speed penalty on a character that relies on hitting faster than the opposition.)

[Boeroer]

Potion drinking is very prone to error. It never got fixed properly. Just pause every fraction of a second while the animation plays and repeat the command (drink potion ). This may help to complete the process.

[dreamrider]

Maybe I missed some discussion in the thread, But...

 

On a build that you say has to do some maneuvering, backing and forthing, to get enough Wounds to activate your MC's best stuff,

why didn't you take Lesser Wounds?

 

(Having read a lot of your stuff, I'm sure there was a chain of logic, and I am curious to hear it, especially since I am interested in [semi-] solo versions of this build.)

Edited July 6, 2018 by dreamrider