Feedback: Multiple Card Recharge Timing

[Deekow]

There are a few areas of the game where you play multiple cards in the same step and the timing that you move them to their destination would matter. Specifically, there are two times I've already encountered when being able to choose the order that cards are recharged are crucial (since most other situations would be randomized after, the draw deck is the most crucial of these as with recharging).

 

Valeros: whenever he plays a weapon, he recharges it (to summarize). My favorite tactic with him is to load him up with single hand weapons and daggers. Using a longsword and dagger in the same attack is pretty nice early on. The problem here though is that the game automatically chooses the dagger to recharge first, then the longsword; where, in every case, I'd rather the longsword recharged first so it comes up again sooner. Ultimately this would be a choice between the cards as "better" becomes rather ambiguous later on.

 

Clock Tower: At the start of your turn, you recharge your hand, and draw a new hand. This is an even greater tactical decision than with the Valeros scenario. It's pretty important that you be able to decide the order the cards are recharged in, as a full hand of 6 cards has a very significant impact in which cards would be redrawn before others. This one has a workaround as the game seems to automatically recharge cards from the right to the left; while you're in the waiting state to click the blue arrow to acknowledge the being turn phase, you can move the cards in your hand around to put the ones you want recharged first on the right of your hand (though, it's darkened out and is suggested by UI behavior that you're not able to interact here).

[PinkRose]

Hadn't even noticed that "Valeros" bug. Great observation.

[Deekow]

I wouldn't call it a bug; it seems an intentional design decision (after a check, the digital game seems to work backwards through recharging/decisions, which normally is entirely justified). It just unfortunately limits player choice and strategy. From a design perspective, I completely understand why it was built the way it is; hopefully they have a desire and ability to work around it.

[StormbringerGT]

 

Valeros: whenever he plays a weapon, he recharges it (to summarize). My favorite tactic with him is to load him up with single hand weapons and daggers. Using a longsword and dagger in the same attack is pretty nice early on. The problem here though is that the game automatically chooses the dagger to recharge first, then the longsword; where, in every case, I'd rather the longsword recharged first so it comes up again sooner. Ultimately this would be a choice between the cards as "better" becomes rather ambiguous later on.

 

Giving players a choice on how to resolve cards effects is not something I think we can do. For a number of reasons, but the pacing of the game will probably suffer for it if we did.

 

I also have to check with Paizo and see what I can find but I am pretty sure they actually have a ruling on the order of recharges.

 

Essentially though there are two ways this can go; In order of cards played, since you played the Longsword first you recharge it first, or latest card gets resolved first. Which is a  stack as CCG players know it as, where the latest card played or the card on top of the stack gets resolved first. Our game follows the stack method currently. It's worth us looking into this further and making sure this is the correct method for Pathfinder Adventures.

[Deekow]

The only rule that's ever decided this from the FAQ:

 

Specifically: "Finish One Thing Before You Start Something Else. You do many things in a specific order, and you need to finish doing each thing before you do the next thing. You move before you explore, not after. If a spell used in a check can be recharged, finish the first check before you begin your check to recharge it. If a villain requires two sequential combat checks, finish the first before starting the second. Don’t start a new process until you’ve finished the last one. (That said, if the game doesn’t specify an order for things, you decide the order.)"

 

The Valeros bit is not in separate stages and both cards are part of the same check.

 

That's not to say that changes don't have to be made to support the digital rules platform, and I could certainly see this being that actual case. But as for rules intention, Paizo and Mike Selinker have indicated there's not a "stack" as much as there's a phase order several times. But... I'm also not Paizo, so I can only reference (though, I'm way too intimate with PACG rules and FAQs for my own good).

 

Either way, I've pointed it out, you'll do as you need to.

[Deekow]

Also, some further insight here on point #6 on this thread: "If two checks can happen at the same time, the player whose turn it is determines the order of the checks."

 

My wife would never let me get two references in a single argument in, so I'm taking advantage of this format.