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Luckmann

[3.0] This is how bad pathing is currently.

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I've been having the most hilariously bad pathing issues lately. Mind you, I haven't been playing since before the last expansion, and I remember pathing being bad at times, but it didn't use to be quite this bad, did it? I've had issues that were with the apparent world geometry; places you could clearly stand, but couldn't, and pathing around certain objects clockwise but not counter-clockwise for absolutely no reason.

But this is different, I think.  I've had repeat issues with party members simply standing there, dumbfounded, or trying to dance left and right trying to get somewhere, instead of taking the clearly available route.

 

And then this happened.

 

BiRBN4Z.jpg

Everyone in this picture is currently targeting the leftmost enemy. Only the party member at the bottom has a ranged weapon - all others are equipped with melee weapons.

 

Everyone is selected, and told to collectively attack the leftmost enemy. Nobody moves. Nobody. They do a little stutter in place, and proceed to move nowhere. The entire left flank of the enemy is open, and there's plenty of room to move around, and nobody except the one party member that is actually attacking in melee is in Engagement.

Nothing happens. Zilch. They're just standing there, and can't find a route to the opponent.

 

People throw the word "broken" around a lot, but I think this in particular illustrates that pathing isn't just bad at the moment, it's just broken.


t50aJUd.jpg

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Another example, just as the fight ends:

L9Iu9Qs.jpg

 

The Devil of Caroc and Hiravias, in the "second line", lefthand side, refused to path around the others to attack the 'shroom.


t50aJUd.jpg

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Luckmann: Yes. This is very common now. Open areas don't help at all. My companions refuse to filter forward, along each other's backs, despite wide spaces to use.

 

What I have to do - it takes a lot of microing - is to take each companion and click it out to a point, then sorta triangulating back to the desired point, losing precious time in the process. 

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Again:

qxS83oJ.jpg

 

The bottom 2 party members refuse to move, despite there being plenty of room.

 

After manually repositioning:

 

kfFueJd.jpg

 

Luckmann: Yes. This is very common now. Open areas don't help at all. My companions refuse to filter forward, along each other's backs, despite wide spaces to use.

 

What I have to do - it takes a lot of microing - is to take each companion and click it out to a point, then sorta triangulating back to the desired point, losing precious time in the process. 

 

Yeah, it's very noticeable in PoE, too, because combat often plays out over less than a minute in realtime. Losing several seconds when there's buffs that lasts for less than 10 seconds is pretty frustrating. And the examples given here are just the ones were my party members gets literally stuck - it doesn't show the ones were they run in circles or start running left and right like headless chickens, or start pathing around entire groups of mobs - sometimes getting stuck on Engagement, and sometimes mysteriously being completely ignored.

Sometimes Engagement seem to be instant the second you even come close to an opponent, and other times it seems (emphasis on seems; I'm not sure) I can literally smack an opponent around for several seconds without getting into engagement.


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Attention^^ Sometime, the character CAN'T access to the zone.

 

But i join you, sometimes, i give an order AND the character zigzag in back of the group , and there is absolytly no way to I.A. to realize the action.

 

Generally, this happen when the number of metter possible of the power is not respected.

 

The developper could be indicate if the character can access to the area.

 

There is a strapping but its not sufficient for the power we want to send further.

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Attention^^ Sometime, the character CAN'T access to the zone.

 

But i join you, sometimes, i give an order AND the character zigzag in back of the group , and there is absolytly no way to I.A. to realize the action.

 

Generally, this happen when the number of metter possible of the power is not respected.

 

The developper could be indicate if the character can access to the area.

 

There is a strapping but its not sufficient for the power we want to send further.

 

Did.. did Google Translate write that for you? Because I have absolutely no clue what you're saying, apart from, like, the first row.


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There are options for automatic behavior. (passive / Agressive etc.) for your party. Active them.

 

If not, reinstall the game or Verify the game cache on Steam.

 

And... for my post, its an another problem of the I.A., maybe that has nothing to do with yours.

 

Give an order > the character can zigzag during an eternity behind the group. Visibly, here your character don't move. Its not the same problem. I have not this problem of inactivity on 3.0. so its strange.

 

Verify the behavior of each character AND the general option when you select them all.

 

If this doesn't work, I can't do anything for you. And yes, I'm not a boss in english but I try to help you ; )

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I have the same problems as Luckman and its really aggravating lately since it often ends in my party being killed one after another while they could easily overpower the enemy if they all attacked at once.

 

I do have the feeling though that this has to do with the toogle 'don't move while engaged' (or however it is called in one of the options menus). I'm afraid to turn it off since at this point, I expect my characters to run around being hit by engagement attacks till dead, but I should probably try it.

 

My rogue is set to cautious behaviour (so flanking) and she often attacks one enemy, darts off to the other side of the fight, attacks an enemy there and runs back, which is also a serious unnecessary drop in DPS (even if I tell her to stay).

 

At this point, I would actually like to stop using the AI, but my whole party consists of melee combatants and when they fight a group of enemies in PotD and spell effects start to accumulate I have no idea about engagement and the general combat state anymore, so I use the auto attack clauses of the AI mostly for setting up and evading disengagement.

Edited by Doppelschwert

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There are options for automatic behavior. (passive / Agressive etc.) for your party. Active them.

 

If not, reinstall the game or Verify the game cache on Steam.

 

And... for my post, its an another problem of the I.A., maybe that has nothing to do with yours.

 

Give an order > the character can zigzag during an eternity behind the group. Visibly, here your character don't move. Its not the same problem. I have not this problem of inactivity on 3.0. so its strange.

 

Verify the behavior of each character AND the general option when you select them all.

 

If this doesn't work, I can't do anything for you. And yes, I'm not a boss in english but I try to help you ; )

 

I'm sorry, but if I'm getting half of what you're trying to say, I don't think you've understood the issue. This has nothing to do with the AI at all, and nothing to do with the selectable scripts of individual party members. This is 100% a pathing issue, readily apparent when giving orders yourself, manually. There may be other issues with the AI scripts, but that has nothing to do with this.

 

 

[...]

 

I do have the feeling though that this has to do with the toogle 'don't move while engaged' (or however it is called in one of the options menus). I'm afraid to turn it off since at this point, I expect my characters to run around being hit by engagement attacks till dead, but I should probably try it.

 

My rogue is set to cautious behaviour (so flanking) and she often attacks one enemy, darts off to the other side of the fight, attacks an enemy there and runs back, which is also a serious unnecessary drop in DPS (even if I tell her to stay).

 

At this point, I would actually like to stop using the AI, but my whole party consists of melee combatants and when they fight a group of enemies in PotD and spell effects start to accumulate I have no idea about engagement and the general combat state anymore, so I use the auto attack clauses of the AI mostly for setting up and evading disengagement.

 

It could possibly have something to do with the don't-move-while-engaged option, but if it does, it's under the hood of the game. The party members acknowledge the commands, but they either run the wrong way, spazz out, or just stand still - they don't "snag on engagement", for lack of a better term. For instance, in my second example, the entire party was fighting a single mushroom, which was engaged with either Edér or Kana (the two guys closest).

 

The mushroom cannot possible engage anyone in Engagement, yet multiple units refused to move. If I want them to move, I have to move them in the opposite direction, and then back again, in a V-shaped pattern, and then tell them to attack again, manually pathing them to where I want them to go.

 

There's no reason to think this has anything to do with the AI/Scripts, either. They might have their own infuriating issues (or not, I've set them to Defensive and that's it; it appears to be the least aggrevating, even though I still lament the absence of a bloody Hold Position order) but it doesn't seem to affect pathing at all.

Edited by Luckmann

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I've had this same issue.  PoE combat is getting to be really tedious since party members tend to just 'stutter' in place and I have to manually move each one a few feet to get them to actually move where they should.  I don't remember it ever being this bad (or really, bad at all).

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[...]

 

It could possibly have something to do with the don't-move-while-engaged option, but if it does, it's under the hood of the game. The party members acknowledge the commands, but they either run the wrong way, spazz out, or just stand still - they don't "snag on engagement", for lack of a better term. For instance, in my second example, the entire party was fighting a single mushroom, which was engaged with either Edér or Kana (the two guys closest).

 

The mushroom cannot possible engage anyone in Engagement, yet multiple units refused to move. If I want them to move, I have to move them in the opposite direction, and then back again, in a V-shaped pattern, and then tell them to attack again, manually pathing them to where I want them to go.

 

There's no reason to think this has anything to do with the AI/Scripts, either. They might have their own infuriating issues (or not, I've set them to Defensive and that's it; it appears to be the least aggrevating, even though I still lament the absence of a bloody Hold Position order) but it doesn't seem to affect pathing at all.

 

 

Sorry, I think my post came across the wrong way. I acknowledge that there is something off with the pathfinding, thats not up to debate, but I think there is some strange behaviour on top as well that your screenshots reminded me of.

 

In your first screenshot, I think there are two things off.

 

First:

The option under the 'Game' tab says

'Continue Movement on Engagement' - 'If enabled, friendly characters will continue moving when engaged by an enemy.'

If this somehow goes both ways, so also when you engage someone, then it would explain why they don't go over by themselves.

 

Second:

Even though the guys on the right side don't attack the left target as you wanted, they should at least somehow attack the right target they are engaged with (at least that is how I understand the defensive AI).

But apparently they don't and somehow they are also not closing in on the enemy. I often have this effect if the enemy has a greater range than my own characters and I suspect that engagement somehow mixes up attack ranges or something.

 

I think the very least the characters should be able to do is to cross the distance to a target they are engaged with in order to retaliate. But in hindsight, thats only a tangent to the pathfinding issues at hand, so sorry for bringing it up.

Edited by Doppelschwert

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