Most overpowered builds post patch 2.02

[AndreaColombo]

If there's no bar overhead, there's no recovery. Only a 4-frame delay that can't be eliminated for it is not affected by any mods; I guess it's there to avoid animation glitches or other silly behaviors when you speed up like that.

 

Don't look at me with that, though. My main build is a Fighter and I can get it down to 15-frame recovery with a two-hander and plate armor

Edited October 27, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Boeroer]

Advantage of the barb: normal aoe damage and relatively weak aoe cc plus being more sturdy. A barb gains great benefits from shod-in-faith boots because he seldomly runs out of health - while a rogue will go down all the time because he will run out of health. Witout health all healing is of no use. Shod-in-faith work best with low deflection barbs (and monks).

 

Advantage of the rogue: very high single damage and relatively weak single CC.

 

As I said: 6 rogues are a pain in the ass. They are great damage dealers and finishers when a single enemy is cc'd and that's what they are good at while the barb is for attacking groups of enemies. Both are great but you can't say one is generally better. It depends how you play the game.

 

The above "build" I mentioned works great - better than any rogue or fighter I ever had. And by better I don't mean pure dps but overall game experience. Low micro after weapon switch, very tanky, doing good aoe DPS and CC. I also love rogues and I use thema all the time, but a high DPS rogue needs more care and sometimes has to wait before he can join battle.

Fighters I don't know. I don't like them a lot so I don't have that much experience with them as I have with the others - tje good thing is they are sturdy while they do good damage - but I think the barbs carnage is just a more interesting feature.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Boeroer

[brindle88]

Advantage of the barb: normal aoe damage and relatively weak aoe cc plus being more sturdy. A barb gains great benefits from shod-in-faith boots because he seldomly runs out of health - while a rogue will go down all the time because he will run out of health. Witout health all healing is of no use. Shod-in-faith work best with low deflection barbs (and monks).

Advantage of the rogue: very high single damage and relatively weak single CC.

As I said: 6 rogues are a pain in the ass. They are great damage dealers and finishers when a single enemy is cc'd and that's what they are good at while the barb is for attacking groups of enemies. Both are great but you can't say one is generally Vetter. It depends how you play the game.

Ok let's break it down barb vs rogue, both with shod boots and remember that a rogue can min max more then a barb so con is not a dump stat for my rogue so my rogues are quite sturdy, I leave con at 8.

 

My rogue has pergatory, resolution, dual weild, merciless hand, dungeon delver, and another item that adds another 10% crit. I have maximised perception and I have selected all the talents that involve maximising crits, sneak attacks, DEATHBLOWS,

 

Attack sequence:

 

- blinding strike (your are blind) + % sneak attack damage, high chance of crit possibly up to another 200% damage

- crippling strike, you are now blind, crippled and DEATHBLOWS are activated, AND another high chance of crit with another 200% plus damage.

- if you are not dead by now I will activate invisibility, drink a potion of major endurance and repeat the above process.

 

Keep in mind you will be getting critter about 30-40% of the time. With a barb critting about 10- 15% of the time.

 

There is no comparison here

[brindle88]

 

Advantage of the barb: normal aoe damage and relatively weak aoe cc plus being more sturdy. A barb gains great benefits from shod-in-faith boots because he seldomly runs out of health - while a rogue will go down all the time because he will run out of health. Witout health all healing is of no use. Shod-in-faith work best with low deflection barbs (and monks).

Advantage of the rogue: very high single damage and relatively weak single CC.

As I said: 6 rogues are a pain in the ass. They are great damage dealers and finishers when a single enemy is cc'd and that's what they are good at while the barb is for attacking groups of enemies. Both are great but you can't say one is generally Vetter. It depends how you play the game.

Ok let's break it down barb vs rogue, both with shod boots and remember that a rogue can min max more then a barb so con is not a dump stat for my rogue so my rogues are quite sturdy, I leave con at 8.

My rogue has pergatory, resolution, dual weild, merciless hand, dungeon delver, and another item that adds another 10% crit. I have maximised perception and I have selected all the talents that involve maximising crits, sneak attacks, DEATHBLOWS,

Attack sequence:

- blinding strike (your are blind) + % sneak attack damage, high chance of crit possibly up to another 200% damage

- crippling strike, you are now blind, crippled and DEATHBLOWS are activated, AND another high chance of crit with another 200% plus damage.

- if you are not dead by now I will activate invisibility, drink a potion of major endurance and repeat the above process.

Keep in mind you will be getting critter about 30-40% of the time. With a barb critting about 10- 15% of the time.

There is no comparison here

I would actually be far more concerned about my above mentioned rogue vs a fighter with a two handed weapon, high deflection, blunting belt, all the two handed weapon specialisations that increase damage and accuracy that only the fighters have access to, armoured grace and a highly enchanted plate armour.

 

I think in this situation, it would come down to luck who would win, in this scenario I would probably start off with the two spell striking stilettos, jolting touch and the plague one then once they have activated I would switch to sabres. Doing this I think the rogue would win.

[Zenbane]

Sanguine Plate is a better armor for your Fighter than the White Crest (which looks amazing but really isn't special from a mechanical perspective); especially so when paired with the Shod-in-Faith boots. That's the bread and butter of my build, in fact.

 

KDubya's Juggernaut Monk is up there too.

 

But are you sure Wizard only comes second? Aloth has the highest number of crits and highest total damage done statistics in my party (though the Lady of Pain has the highest single-target damage and the most hits.)

Thanks for posting this Juggernaut Monk build. Last night I replaced the Fighter in my group with this build, and wow, was I really missing out! This Monk build is quite fantastic. Personally, I have greatly disliked the Monk class in "any" game thanks to the Hellfire expansion to the original Diablo. That was many moons ago... and all these years later I can finally say that this class is at the top of my favorite list. I'm running with a Palladin, Chanter, Priest, and "Fireball" Barbarian. All great classes, but nothing has been more fun than watching this fully armored Monk drop a round house and explode a body.

[AndreaColombo]

^ all credit goes to KDubya for that build

[dudex]

right now monks are better then fighters in almost every way. there is a reason why next patch is buffing fighters..

 

the fighter's hp regen is only really useful in act 1. In act 2 u can rush shod of faith and they will almost never go down after that. monks do amazing amounts of damage and can soak up a lot of damage.

 

problem with rogue is surviving in group battles with a lot of mobile fast melee, ranged and casters. You really have to depend on your other party members on landing their cc. 

 

its not all about single target damage dealing in this game. CCs, aoe,  and staying alive is important as well.

 

also barbs can get away with low con better because of their higher base endurance and savage defiance.

 

im not hating on rogues (if u look at my post history im always saying how strong they are) but saying they are clearly better then barbarians just because they can do damage is kinda silly.

[AndreaColombo]

^ actually, because attributes' effects are percentage based, having higher base health and endurance means you get hit harder from dumping CON.

 

Barbarians do get away more easily with lighter armor because of that, though. I still like Fighters better because reasons, but I'm also the kind of person who would sacrifice mechanical efficiency for aesthetics, so...

[Boeroer]

But wouldn't your Lady of Pain be even more powerful if it were a monk? Your (aoe) DPS with Turning Wheel, Torment's Reach and Lightning Strikes would be awesome together with that stellar might of yours... wouldn't it? Of course you would be a little slower because of not having Armored Grace.

[brindle88]

Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.

 

1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk

 

2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.  

 

So lets answer this in these terms

 

The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.

 

In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.

[Boeroer]

Okay - invisibilty together with some stunning or overbearing effect on your weapon is really dangerous. But keep in mind that this is restricted by uses per rest. If you just look at one encounter after you've rested than you're probably right. Would be fun to have some sort of PvP arena to try this out. It's a pity that pausing will not work in this case.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Boeroer

[brindle88]

Okay - invisibilty together with some stunning or overbearing effect on your weapon is really dangerous. But keep in mind that this is restricted by uses per rest. If you just look at one encounter after you've rested than you're probably right. Would be tun to habe some sort of PvP arena to try this out. It's a pity that pausing will not work in this case.

Invisibility for the rogue is a bizarre ability. It can be used to unbelievable effectiveness in this 1 vs 1 situation, the name of it should be changed from invisibility to immunity. I personally wouldn't go with stunning or overbearing weapons I would go with a annihilation. I don't think any other build could survive successive rogue afflictions like blinding strike, crippling strike (that all stack concurrent damage bonuses eg 25% for the affliction, 50% for sneak attack, 100% for deathblows, 30% merciless hand, 10% dungeon delver, 50% annihilation.

 

You can 2 shot most high powered bosses with this build with the annihilating sabres

[brindle88]

Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.

 

1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk

 

2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.  

 

So lets answer this in these terms

 

The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.

 

In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.

BTW i only found these 3 spells the cipher has to be the ones of any real use, so basically if you compare a cipher to a wizard the wizard is more versatile but I think these three spells amplified wave, time parasite and mind plague are more powerful then anything the wizard has, perhaps apart from that cauncahaults hammer the wizard gets a craighold bluff but this only targets one person. Come to think of it if the wizard could fire this spell of at the rogue that could make the wizard the most powerful build in one on one also. It would be hard for the wizard to do it though because the rogue would activate invisibility as soon as engaged started and then I think the wizard would be dead as soon as it was engaged in melee. This is where wizards need contingencies and spell triggers

[KDubya]

Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.

 

1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk

 

2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.  

 

So lets answer this in these terms

 

The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.

 

In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.

 

 

I'd say the Wizard is way ahead of the Cipher. Amplified wave is great BUT you only get to cast one of them and then you need to make a few normal attacks to regenerate focus. Time Parasite is great in that it speeds up your attacks but after using it you are out of focus and need to attack a few times to regenerate focus. A Wizard can bang out an Alacrity, get a 50% speed increase and then bang out four level seven spells and the follow up with four level six, five, four and so on. Nothing will survive being on the receiving end of a Wizard's full unloading of its Grimoire. The only defense is to kill the Wizard. Plus the Wizard can do this in every single battle if they are willing to back track or expend camping supplies.

 

With the Rogue vs Monk deathmatch I'd be betting on the Monk

 

Using my Juggernaut (with equipment but no paladin auras, buffs,  food or rest bonuses) I have  322 Endurance, 27 slash DR, 25 pierce DR and 18 crush DR (Armor is merely exceptional, have not upgraded to Superb), Fortitude is 122, Reflex is 94, Will is 76, all of which get increased by 10 from Crucible of Suffering which kicks in after the first status attack. A 64 deflection and an 89 accuracy. Fists are fast speed, 3 DR bypass and are listed as 26 -33 damage.

 

You get first hit with +50% sneak attack, and a blind strike vs Will. Reflex.  Even if you get past the defense it is only a -20 -25 debuff to accuracy and deflection. Its not as if your deflection is high enough to cause misses against an 89 accuracy even if I'm blind.

 

Even with a crit how hard is the hit? 100, 150 max? Factor in DR and it is probably less than 100. The point being that I am still alive and now have 10 wounds to spend. I use eight to summon the Twins who have like 280 endurance and the same DR as I do. Now it is three on one and the twins are not blinded and you're out of blinding strikes. Even without the Twins Torment's Reach spam is a full attack at +50% crush, how many of those can your Rogue take?

 

If I took Force of Anguish, for two wounds I'd get a ten+ second prone.

 

The fight would be like the early days of MMA where wrestlers and ground and pound were the kings. The Monk is the wrestler and the Rogue would be the Tae Kwan Do master.

Edited October 30, 2015 by KDubya

[Boeroer]

When I did some 1:1 fights where I send one of my party members against a single powerful foe my monk was always best. But I have to say that my rougue didn't have invisibility or an overbearing/stunning weapon. I had the classic dual wielding sabre setup which was very powerful regarding dps. If the invisible rogue would cause a crit with prone or stun then the monk would be in trouble. But a crit is not ensured and neither is the disabling effect that also has to overcome defenses. Just dual wielding with annihilating sabres would not be enough in most cases I think. Disabling is the key because if you don't do it, the monk will prone you for a long time. I also think that a monk with durgan refined speed weapons would be more powerful than with fists - although I love fighting with fists. For most of the game they are great. But after you get Durgan Steel I think you should switch to weapons.

[brindle88]

 

Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.

 

1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk

 

2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.  

 

So lets answer this in these terms

 

The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.

 

In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.

 

 

I'd say the Wizard is way ahead of the Cipher. Amplified wave is great BUT you only get to cast one of them and then you need to make a few normal attacks to regenerate focus. Time Parasite is great in that it speeds up your attacks but after using it you are out of focus and need to attack a few times to regenerate focus. A Wizard can bang out an Alacrity, get a 50% speed increase and then bang out four level seven spells and the follow up with four level six, five, four and so on. Nothing will survive being on the receiving end of a Wizard's full unloading of its Grimoire. The only defense is to kill the Wizard. Plus the Wizard can do this in every single battle if they are willing to back track or expend camping supplies.

 

With the Rogue vs Monk deathmatch I'd be betting on the Monk

 

Using my Juggernaut (with equipment but no paladin auras, buffs,  food or rest bonuses) I have  322 Endurance, 27 slash DR, 25 pierce DR and 18 crush DR (Armor is merely exceptional, have not upgraded to Superb), Fortitude is 122, Reflex is 94, Will is 76, all of which get increased by 10 from Crucible of Suffering which kicks in after the first status attack. A 64 deflection and an 89 accuracy. Fists are fast speed, 3 DR bypass and are listed as 26 -33 damage.

 

You get first hit with +50% sneak attack, and a blind strike vs Will. Reflex.  Even if you get past the defense it is only a -20 -25 debuff to accuracy and deflection. Its not as if your deflection is high enough to cause misses against an 89 accuracy even if I'm blind.

 

Even with a crit how hard is the hit? 100, 150 max? Factor in DR and it is probably less than 100. The point being that I am still alive and now have 10 wounds to spend. I use eight to summon the Twins who have like 280 endurance and the same DR as I do. Now it is three on one and the twins are not blinded and you're out of blinding strikes. Even without the Twins Torment's Reach spam is a full attack at +50% crush, how many of those can your Rogue take?

 

If I took Force of Anguish, for two wounds I'd get a ten+ second prone.

 

The fight would be like the early days of MMA where wrestlers and ground and pound were the kings. The Monk is the wrestler and the Rogue would be the Tae Kwan Do master.

 

I wouldn't blinding strike first I would fearsome strike, therefore inflicting 2 afflictions instantly, then blinding strike (including deathblows), so you are blind, crippled, weakened and hobbled in 2 shots. I would still have invis up my sleeve aswell remember as a monk is not a caster so I would not activate it at the start of combat to avoid spells. if I critted on any of these 2 strikes you would not probably die, if I critted on both you would definitely die , If you did manage to survive you definatley would not be in a position to win

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Fearsome_Strike

 

 

 

[brindle88]

 

Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.

 

1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk

 

2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.  

 

So lets answer this in these terms

 

The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.

 

In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.

 

 

I'd say the Wizard is way ahead of the Cipher. Amplified wave is great BUT you only get to cast one of them and then you need to make a few normal attacks to regenerate focus. Time Parasite is great in that it speeds up your attacks but after using it you are out of focus and need to attack a few times to regenerate focus. A Wizard can bang out an Alacrity, get a 50% speed increase and then bang out four level seven spells and the follow up with four level six, five, four and so on. Nothing will survive being on the receiving end of a Wizard's full unloading of its Grimoire. The only defense is to kill the Wizard. Plus the Wizard can do this in every single battle if they are willing to back track or expend camping supplies.

 

With the Rogue vs Monk deathmatch I'd be betting on the Monk

 

Using my Juggernaut (with equipment but no paladin auras, buffs,  food or rest bonuses) I have  322 Endurance, 27 slash DR, 25 pierce DR and 18 crush DR (Armor is merely exceptional, have not upgraded to Superb), Fortitude is 122, Reflex is 94, Will is 76, all of which get increased by 10 from Crucible of Suffering which kicks in after the first status attack. A 64 deflection and an 89 accuracy. Fists are fast speed, 3 DR bypass and are listed as 26 -33 damage.

 

You get first hit with +50% sneak attack, and a blind strike vs Will. Reflex.  Even if you get past the defense it is only a -20 -25 debuff to accuracy and deflection. Its not as if your deflection is high enough to cause misses against an 89 accuracy even if I'm blind.

 

Even with a crit how hard is the hit? 100, 150 max? Factor in DR and it is probably less than 100. The point being that I am still alive and now have 10 wounds to spend. I use eight to summon the Twins who have like 280 endurance and the same DR as I do. Now it is three on one and the twins are not blinded and you're out of blinding strikes. Even without the Twins Torment's Reach spam is a full attack at +50% crush, how many of those can your Rogue take?

 

If I took Force of Anguish, for two wounds I'd get a ten+ second prone.

 

The fight would be like the early days of MMA where wrestlers and ground and pound were the kings. The Monk is the wrestler and the Rogue would be the Tae Kwan Do master.

 

 

I wouldn't blinding strike first I would fearsome strike, therefore inflicting 2 afflictions instantly, then blinding strike (including deathblows), so you are blind, crippled, weakened and hobbled in 2 shots. I would still have invis up my sleeve aswell remember as a monk is not a caster so I would not activate it at the start of combat to avoid spells. if I critted on any of these 2 strikes you would not probably die, if I critted on both you would definitely die , If you did manage to survive you definatley would not be in a position to win

[brindle88]

When I did some 1:1 fights where I send one of my party members against a single powerful foe my monk was always best. But I have to say that my rougue didn't have invisibility or an overbearing/stunning weapon. I had the classic dual wielding sabre setup which was very powerful regarding dps. If the invisible rogue would cause a crit with prone or stun then the monk would be in trouble. But a crit is not ensured and neither is the disabling effect that also has to overcome defenses. Just dual wielding with annihilating sabres would not be enough in most cases I think. Disabling is the key because if you don't do it, the monk will prone you for a long time. I also think that a monk with durgan refined speed weapons would be more powerful than with fists - although I love fighting with fists. For most of the game they are great. But after you get Durgan Steel I think you should switch to weapons.

nightshroud on the rogue may be the best weapon for this

[brindle88]

 

Ok all. We have some good discussion here and It has helped me a lot but we seem to all be interpreting my OP Differently.

 

1. Some people are interpreting what the most overpowered build post patch 2.00 is as an individual, e.g. say for example one class vs. another in a 1 on 1 fight. e.g. Rogue vs. Monk

 

2. Others are interpreting my OP as What is the most overpowered build vs. the Mobs/ Bad Guys/ General monsters etc.  

 

So lets answer this in these terms

 

The Answer to 2. seems to be a wizard? Do we all agree on this? I am tied between a wizard and a cipher simply because Amplified Wave is the only GOD LIKE ability in this game. The Wizard has no spell more powerful then amplified wave but overall the wizards repertoire of spells to choose from may be more powerful. The cipher also has the spells time parasite and mind plague. All three of these spells are capable of wrecking just about anything I encountered in POTD especially the wave. Also keep in mind time parasite and mind plague jump to enemies, they are not restricted to a circle of effect like most of the wizards powerful spells eg petrify. Im going with Cipher, the Wave IMO is just to powerful to ignore.

 

In Regards to 1. Most Powerful build class vs class: I think Rogue, the Rogue can activate Invisibility Instantly and is the only class capable of doing this. Invisibility will allow the Rogue to be IMMUNE to spells and attacks and allow the rogue to position itself to lock down its target with a series of critical hits, sneak attacks and Deathblows. Someone show me how to avoid this???????????? You cant, once a rogue does that your fckd.

 

 

I'd say the Wizard is way ahead of the Cipher. Amplified wave is great BUT you only get to cast one of them and then you need to make a few normal attacks to regenerate focus. Time Parasite is great in that it speeds up your attacks but after using it you are out of focus and need to attack a few times to regenerate focus. A Wizard can bang out an Alacrity, get a 50% speed increase and then bang out four level seven spells and the follow up with four level six, five, four and so on. Nothing will survive being on the receiving end of a Wizard's full unloading of its Grimoire. The only defense is to kill the Wizard. Plus the Wizard can do this in every single battle if they are willing to back track or expend camping supplies.

 

With the Rogue vs Monk deathmatch I'd be betting on the Monk

 

Using my Juggernaut (with equipment but no paladin auras, buffs,  food or rest bonuses) I have  322 Endurance, 27 slash DR, 25 pierce DR and 18 crush DR (Armor is merely exceptional, have not upgraded to Superb), Fortitude is 122, Reflex is 94, Will is 76, all of which get increased by 10 from Crucible of Suffering which kicks in after the first status attack. A 64 deflection and an 89 accuracy. Fists are fast speed, 3 DR bypass and are listed as 26 -33 damage.

 

You get first hit with +50% sneak attack, and a blind strike vs Will. Reflex.  Even if you get past the defense it is only a -20 -25 debuff to accuracy and deflection. Its not as if your deflection is high enough to cause misses against an 89 accuracy even if I'm blind.

 

Even with a crit how hard is the hit? 100, 150 max? Factor in DR and it is probably less than 100. The point being that I am still alive and now have 10 wounds to spend. I use eight to summon the Twins who have like 280 endurance and the same DR as I do. Now it is three on one and the twins are not blinded and you're out of blinding strikes. Even without the Twins Torment's Reach spam is a full attack at +50% crush, how many of those can your Rogue take?

 

If I took Force of Anguish, for two wounds I'd get a ten+ second prone.

 

The fight would be like the early days of MMA where wrestlers and ground and pound were the kings. The Monk is the wrestler and the Rogue would be the Tae Kwan Do master.

 

 

this is the build that would beat the monk

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79744-tcs-rogue-dw-sabre-4-shot-thaos-1-bs-1-cs/

[Boeroer]

Nightshroud is inferior because you can't refine it and it's on-hit effects will not trigger often.

 

I had that exact rogue build. It's very good - I would still guess that in 100 one-on-one fights between a good monk and that rogue the monk would win more often.

[dudex]

if u land a lot of damage on the monk in a 1v1 with the rogue u will be hit by a massive rooting pain and might be forced to back off. All the monk has to do is land one force of anguish and its over with the chain ccs.  Monk also can survive the initial barrage with a lot of defensive skills and splitting into multiple clones which the rogue cant deal with with the lack of ccs if he used them all on the monk already

 

also con being % based doesnt mean u lose more but u also keep a lot more. thats why barbarians can get away with low con easier they dont get one shot / bursted down as fast.

[KDubya]

Also a PvP build would be different. With a superb large shield and W&S talent I'd be up to 59+16+12+6 = 93 deflection w/o modality, 101 with it set to deflection. You would not be critting much. Also the damage from the Sabres is going to have an issue getting past the 27 slash DR and then the 322 endurance.

 

The high defenses of the Monk will cause issues trying to land the afflictions in the first place. The Monks Fortitude and Reflex are both higher than the Rogues accuracy. On the flipside the Monk will have no problem hitting, damaging or applying a status effect on the Rogue whose defenses are lower than the Monk's accuracy.

 

A Paladin with a decent Might score at level 13 would probably give a Rogue all they wanted in a fight due to Sacred Immolation and a few LoH. Throw in a couple FoD crits with a stunning or overbearing weapon and the Rogue is in a lot of trouble.

[brindle88]

Also a PvP build would be different. With a superb large shield and W&S talent I'd be up to 59+16+12+6 = 93 deflection w/o modality, 101 with it set to deflection. You would not be critting much. Also the damage from the Sabres is going to have an issue getting past the 27 slash DR and then the 322 endurance.

 

The high defenses of the Monk will cause issues trying to land the afflictions in the first place. The Monks Fortitude and Reflex are both higher than the Rogues accuracy. On the flipside the Monk will have no problem hitting, damaging or applying a status effect on the Rogue whose defenses are lower than the Monk's accuracy.

 

A Paladin with a decent Might score at level 13 would probably give a Rogue all they wanted in a fight due to Sacred Immolation and a few LoH. Throw in a couple FoD crits with a stunning or overbearing weapon and the Rogue is in a lot of trouble.

I'm all for listening to the monk but dude we have to leave the paladin out of this. It does not belong on this thread.

 

Look at the screen shot on this link when the op 4 shoted thaos.

 

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79744-tcs-rogue-dw-sabre-4-shot-thaos-1-bs-1-cs/

 

He was hitting thaos for around 70 without crits each time and thaos would have had a high damage reduction for slash, at least 20 I'm guessing so your 27 dr will Definately be getting punished. Let's assume I do open with invisibility, this guarantees me the fist 4 shots on the monk so it will be fearsome strike which has enabled 2 afflictions then blinding strike with DEATHBLOWS, THEN you will be able to hit me. I've just dealt you a minimum of 140 damage (assuming I didn't crit you) and remember rogues automatically gain an extra 20% of hits converted to crits no matter what due to talent selections, this combined with high perception and other accuracy buffs I think will crit the monk even with a high deflection about 30% of the time. So it's more then likely before you can even get a chance to hit me you :

 

- are blind

- crippled

- weakened

- hobbled

- taken a minimum of 200 damage (assuming I critted once)

 

Man seriously, that's a frickin huge handicap I just dealt you. You are underestimating invisibility

[brindle88]

 

Also a PvP build would be different. With a superb large shield and W&S talent I'd be up to 59+16+12+6 = 93 deflection w/o modality, 101 with it set to deflection. You would not be critting much. Also the damage from the Sabres is going to have an issue getting past the 27 slash DR and then the 322 endurance.

 

The high defenses of the Monk will cause issues trying to land the afflictions in the first place. The Monks Fortitude and Reflex are both higher than the Rogues accuracy. On the flipside the Monk will have no problem hitting, damaging or applying a status effect on the Rogue whose defenses are lower than the Monk's accuracy.

 

A Paladin with a decent Might score at level 13 would probably give a Rogue all they wanted in a fight due to Sacred Immolation and a few LoH. Throw in a couple FoD crits with a stunning or overbearing weapon and the Rogue is in a lot of trouble.

I'm all for listening to the monk but dude we have to leave the paladin out of this. It does not belong on this thread.

Look at the screen shot on this link when the op 4 shoted thaos.https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79744-tcs-rogue-dw-sabre-4-shot-thaos-1-bs-1-cs/

He was hitting thaos for around 70 without crits each time and thaos would have had a high damage reduction for slash, at least 20 I'm guessing so your 27 dr will Definately be getting punished. Let's assume I do open with invisibility, this guarantees me the fist 4 shots on the monk so it will be fearsome strike which has enabled 2 afflictions then blinding strike with DEATHBLOWS, THEN you will be able to hit me. I've just dealt you a minimum of 140 damage (assuming I didn't crit you) and remember rogues automatically gain an extra 20% of hits converted to crits no matter what due to talent selections, this combined with high perception and other accuracy buffs I think will crit the monk even with a high deflection about 30% of the time. So it's more then likely before you can even get a chance to hit me you :

- are blind

- crippled

- weakened

- hobbled

- taken a minimum of 200 damage (assuming I critted once)

Man seriously, that's a frickin huge handicap I just dealt you. You are underestimating invisibility

And then after you do hit me after I have done all this to you I will still have DEATHBLOWS activated, you will be dead in 1 more hit, 2 max,

 

Seriously have a good think about this and look at that screen shot. The rogue will win guaranteed

[brindle88]

 

Also a PvP build would be different. With a superb large shield and W&S talent I'd be up to 59+16+12+6 = 93 deflection w/o modality, 101 with it set to deflection. You would not be critting much. Also the damage from the Sabres is going to have an issue getting past the 27 slash DR and then the 322 endurance.

 

The high defenses of the Monk will cause issues trying to land the afflictions in the first place. The Monks Fortitude and Reflex are both higher than the Rogues accuracy. On the flipside the Monk will have no problem hitting, damaging or applying a status effect on the Rogue whose defenses are lower than the Monk's accuracy.

 

A Paladin with a decent Might score at level 13 would probably give a Rogue all they wanted in a fight due to Sacred Immolation and a few LoH. Throw in a couple FoD crits with a stunning or overbearing weapon and the Rogue is in a lot of trouble.

I'm all for listening to the monk but dude we have to leave the paladin out of this. It does not belong on this thread.

Look at the screen shot on this link when the op 4 shoted thaos.https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79744-tcs-rogue-dw-sabre-4-shot-thaos-1-bs-1-cs/

He was hitting thaos for around 70 without crits each time and thaos would have had a high damage reduction for slash, at least 20 I'm guessing so your 27 dr will Definately be getting punished. Let's assume I do open with invisibility, this guarantees me the fist 4 shots on the monk so it will be fearsome strike which has enabled 2 afflictions then blinding strike with DEATHBLOWS, THEN you will be able to hit me. I've just dealt you a minimum of 140 damage (assuming I didn't crit you) and remember rogues automatically gain an extra 20% of hits converted to crits no matter what due to talent selections, this combined with high perception and other accuracy buffs I think will crit the monk even with a high deflection about 30% of the time. So it's more then likely before you can even get a chance to hit me you :

- are blind

- crippled

- weakened

- hobbled

- taken a minimum of 200 damage (assuming I critted once)

Man seriously, that's a frickin huge handicap I just dealt you. You are underestimating invisibility

Sorry I ****ed up. The op in that post four shotted thaos for 298 damage and only one landed a crit, have a look.

 

The rogue will flog the monk