So Dump Eder eh? Lend me your thoughts....

[Cacophonix]

Greetings. Currently i am playing on Normal. 

 

Pally (me) Zelous Focus, lvl 12, using Sheathed in Autumn n buckler, having FUN! (hold the line)

 

Eder, Shatterstar, buckler, hold the line and then war hammer specilizations.

 

Aloth lvl 12 implements and blast spec but may change.

 

Custom Cypher, using the Soul bound bow again having fun!

 

Durance using soul bound mace, personally I think thiis weapon sucks. 

 

Custom Rogue using full dps spec built around Tall grass. (This has be by FAR the most fun playing this npc. Most Kills, Most Dmg, Most Crits, Most knockdowns, by far I am having a TON of fun with this one character, more than my 'main')

 

I wanted to get the Sword of Endless Paths, add Durgan Steel and give it to Eder but everyone says Eder sucks at dps. 

 

So......Who would be good with the Estoc? I am willing to use one of the Companions or create another toon. We are all 12th lvl btw...

 

 

I was going to put this 'new' addition in full plate btw. I am not too worried about weapon speed. 

 

Also if I create a new toon from scratch  he will be a full level below us...

Edited October 5, 2015 by Cacophonix

[MunoValente]

Eder would be fine with it, just respec him for damage, savage attack, two handed, weapon specialized, confident aim, armored grace.

[Torm51]

Greetings. Currently i am playing on Normal. 

 

Pally (me) Zelous Focus, lvl 12, using Sheathed in Autumn n buckler, having FUN! (hold the line)

 

Eder, Shatterstar, buckler, hold the line and then war hammer specilizations.

 

Aloth lvl 12 implements and blast spec but may change.

 

Custom Cypher, using the Soul bound bow again having fun!

 

Durance using soul bound mace, personally I think thiis weapon sucks. 

 

Custom Rogue using full dps spec built around Tall grass. (This has be by FAR the most fun playing this npc. Most Kills, Most Dmg, Most Crits, Most knockdowns, by far I am having a TON of fun with this one character, more than my 'main')

 

I wanted to get the Sword of Endless Paths, add Durgan Steel and give it to Eder but everyone says Eder sucks at dps. 

 

So......Who would be good with the Estoc? I am willing to use one of the Companions or create another toon. We are all 12th lvl btw...

 

 

I was going to put this 'new' addition in full plate btw. I am not too worried about weapon speed. 

 

Also if I create a new toon from scratch  he will be a full level below us...

 

That's cause you are using a mace with a priest. I gave Night shroud to Caroc...she's not even optimized and I was getting 50+ crit death blows on targets with DR In the high 20s. It's a priest it isn't the best use of a mace.

[Torm51]

And no built properly fighter are consistent damage who don't fold like a stack of cards when enemies attack them. Get Confident aim, two handed style, weapon specialization and mastery and armored grace if he's in heavy armor and it's a durable Frontliner who hits hard.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Torm51

[Cacophonix]

Great thanks!

[Torm51]

Always glad to help,  Sorry if I came off as aggressive lol just read what I wrote about the mace.

[Ymarsakar]

Eder's very easy to learn how to use and it's probably what I would recommend for people without a lot of time to learn PoE mechanics.

 

But I have to drop him from my party list usually now a days, because unless he's using two handed weapons or dual wielding, he doesn't contribute as much as the paladin or monk does to the front line.

[KDubya]

Give the Estoc to Zahua and spec him for heavy armor, two handed weapons, Swift Strikes, Lightning Strikes, Turning Wheel, Force of Anguish (instead of Torment's), Flagellant's Path, and Enervating Blows. He will be a monster, give him the Greenstone Staff for a different damage type.

 

He'll have 10+ second prones, massive damage adds from Turning and Lightning, +25% attack speed from Swift Strikes, and a 15+ second weaken effect on crit that will help set up deathblows for your Rogue.

 

Instead of the heavy armor you might be able to get by with the robes that cast mirror image on crit. Would make him a lot faster.

[Teioh_White]

Yeah, fighter is basically just Bad Monk in this game. The only reason I use Eder is I only use story companions, and I don't go to White March till Act 4.

[Cacophonix]

Wow, such great information. I have Zahua in my companions. I am not sure on how to run a monk but I can learn. I was going to finish 'getting the estoc' with Eder. I am talking about the Sword of the Endless paths. 

 

Now how does IT compare to the other two? 

 

Grey Sleeper

 

Vrs

 

Drakes bane (the one from the bounty, I have it.)

 

vrs 

 

Sword of the Endless Paths

 

I looked carefully at all and the Drakes Bane is very nice because of rending (3+ DR , added to the already +5).

 

SoEP is also very nice as its Superb and has a speed/haste buff on it. 

 

Not so sure about Grey Sleeper. 

 

I could not find any threads on gamer comparisons. 

 

What are your thoughts?

[LaSpeakeasi]

I find Pallegina to be a more competent tank than Eder. Because of her high perception, I gave her Rose of Salthollow and Interrupting Blow and just watch her stopping mobs dead in their tracks like nobody's business.

 

Of course, you need a lot of bottlenecking because she isn't as sturdy as Eder and can't handle being ganged upon nearly as good; but my playstyle is all smoke em and bag em so it works for me.

 

Zahua, and monks in general, don't require as much micro as people say. Some builds focus on Wound abilities and they do require micro. But you can choose only talents that passively give bonus proportionate to wound gain. Then monks become pretty much slightly squishier fighters with a few more tricks up their sleeves.

 

I also have Zahua and my PC is a Berath Priest designed for tanking (just spam consecrated ground and watch him stand in a door way blocking every hit thrown at him and generate right back). So I'm pretty much always running a human wall. Eder just seemed overkill, even though he's technically the best tank.

[Torm51]

I find Pallegina to be a more competent tank than Eder. Because of her high perception, I gave her Rose of Salthollow and Interrupting Blow and just watch her stopping mobs dead in their tracks like nobody's business.

 

Of course, you need a lot of bottlenecking because she isn't as sturdy as Eder and can't handle being ganged upon nearly as good; but my playstyle is all smoke em and bag em so it works for me.

 

Zahua, and monks in general, don't require as much micro as people say. Some builds focus on Wound abilities and they do require micro. But you can choose only talents that passively give bonus proportionate to wound gain. Then monks become pretty much slightly squishier fighters with a few more tricks up their sleeves.

 

I also have Zahua and my PC is a Berath Priest designed for tanking (just spam consecrated ground and watch him stand in a door way blocking every hit thrown at him and generate right back). So I'm pretty much always running a human wall. Eder just seemed overkill, even though he's technically the best tank.

Dude how are you speccing your Paladins.  Especially after the Defender nerf they are much more sturdy then any fighter who specced to tank as well.  I had her solo tanking The master below AND CONCELHAUT on PoTD while still being offensively viable and they could not touch her.  She is also a companion Paladin who only gets +5 deflection and + 10 to the rest of her saves and who has non optimized attributes.  Faith and Conviction makes Paladins EXTREMELY durable on a PC Paladin the gap between Fighter and Paladin defensively gets even larger as full Faith and Conviction with Deep faith gives you a +13 Deflection and + 27 yes + TWENTY SEVEN to Fort, Reflex and Will that is like wearing  THREE Extra +9 to saves rings.  Its nuts and not even close right now.

 

I am not saying a fighter is a bad tank.  They are not and still do well in the roll.  I am saying at the moment because of the Defender nerf Paladins are better at it and definitely NOT less sturdy. If they are both specced to tank.  Its just bad information that is not correct. 

 

On the other hand Fighters always have been MUCH better Offensive frontliners as they can raise their minimum damage, (huge ability) and maximum damage on weapons thanks to their weapon masteries and Confident Aim.  They also have better natural accuracy (the stat that matters the most in PoTD).  All a Paladin can do offensively better then them is 2 times per fight they have a large burst of damage with Flames of Devotion.  Fighters are just better offensively in long fights like bosses plain and simple.  I love the Fighter but lets not call it what is not.  And it is not currently a better tank then the Paladin.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Torm51

[Cacophonix]

So, which of the 3 Estocs would you work for Torm?

[Ymarsakar]

The white spire estoc is pretty good. Blade of the Endless I heard was also an estoc.

[Teioh_White]

Either the White Spire bought from the Crucible Knights or the Drake's Bell gotten from the first Bounty quest make good mid game Estocs. An issue with both is that neither can made into Superb and still have a Lash on it. Of course, only one character can have their weapon upgraded to Superb, so if someone else was going to use that in a party, it wouldn't be a big deal.

 

Blade of the Endless Paths is the Superb Estoc in the game, but it's has a similar issue in that it can't be given a Lash. The fact it has speed on it, a great enchant, and naturally comes superb, means it'll be better than using either of the other 2 as Exceptional+Lash.

 

The Grey Sleeper I'm not real sure how to weigh. It comes Superb, but has no Lash nor Speed enchant, putting it's base damage a good bit lower. However, it'll do something cool on hit 20% of the time. That could very well be better than the higher average damage of the others. It can't, however, be enchanted with Durgen Steel, so if you were planning on spending some of your very limited Ingots on this weapon, it'll come out worse in that case.

[Boeroer]

The Blade of the Endless Paths is the best of them. It's superb, has the speed enchantment and is giving +10 to an ally attacking the same target - that's very good when you use Eder to attack an enemy and then use your rogue with Tall Grass to flank. He will get a +10 ACC bonus which will trigger even more crits and prones. Very good when you meet high deflection enemies. The speed enchantment is nice for a heavy armored fighter. Together with Armored Grace and that one item from White March that gives another 10% recovery bonus plus durgan refined armor you will be a heavy armored guy who is very tough AND is hitting fast. You can even afford to take Vulnerable Attack - that would give you a crazy 10 DR bypass and that would just negate your speed bonus from the Blade.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Boeroer

[Torm51]

They Grey Sleeper also has a 10% chance to Paralyze on hit.  Also it has a certain % to raise undead to fight for you and it is Superb. But like it was said there is no Lash on it.  Btw The Adra dragon dropped two scales for me the last time I beat her.  I think that's an update and you can make two superb weapons now.  I do like the massive DR reduction of Drakes Bell as with vulnerable attack you have a grand total of -13 DR which is sick.  It is really good against heavily armored targets like Dragons.  I am not sure on the Math and would have to test out what is better against high armored targets.  3 more DR Penetration or 15% and +4 Accuracy.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Torm51

[Torm51]

For the reasons stated above me though I would take Blade of the Endless Paths.  The other enchants along with fighter abilities like Armored Grace is just too good.

[Boeroer]

You can only make superb weapons from sky dragon eyes. You geht 3 of them: two from the sky dragon and one form Concelhaut's desk. Adra Dragon scales are only good for armor.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Boeroer

[Torm51]

You can only make superb weapons from sky dragon eyes. You geht 3 of them: two from the sky dragon and one form Concelhaut's desk. Adra Dragon scales are only food for armor.

Yep my bad.  I meant Concelhaut has one.

[Teioh_White]

Marking isn't as useful as it seems; it'll only effect a single hit on the mob, not a free +10 acc to the entire group on each target. It may also have some quirks related to distance like the Paladin passive, i've not tested that myself. Either way, it's one of the least sought after enchants.

 

That said, Endless Paths is still still the best, due to the inability to get an Estoc with Superb+Lash+useful enchant. Speed is one of (if not the) best enchants for a weapon, so it help mitigates the loss of Lash (which is normally better than Speed, actually). And it won't cost any precious Dragon Eyes.

[sapientNode]

I wish they would remove the classes from the Soulbound weapons.

 

I myself run 2 Paladins.  My main is a Paladin with Zealous Endurance and Pallegina has Zealous Focus.

They are amazing as a tank team front line.

 

Anyone know if we can switch off the labels for soulbound weapons?

[Cacophonix]

Great thank you!

[Teioh_White]

Fairly certain nothing in the base console does that, but it seems like something that would be right up IE Mods alley.

 

That said, most of the Soulbound weapons are pretty forgettable. They all share the same issue of no Lash and no Durgen Steel, which'll make them underwhelming unless being put on a character that wasn't going to get any of the scarce resources anyways. Stormcaller, of course, is amazing, but most of the classes that would want to use it can use it right now. I guess Rogue might want in on that? Nightshroud doesn't do anything special. The Redeemer rocks against Vessels, but is mundane like Nightshroud beyond that. I guess Greenstone's free Nature's Mark per battle is kinda spiffy, but not that great.

 

A big issue is a lot of these have a % of doing something on a hit/crit, and even if we assume they're hit/crit 100% of the time, it still adds up to less effect than just a straight 25% damage boost from a Lash. Or for the non-damage effects, with buffs+debuffs, it's much better to go with a weapon that does stuff on Crit, as those will fire off much more reliably.

[Torm51]

Fairly certain nothing in the base console does that, but it seems like something that would be right up IE Mods alley.

 

That said, most of the Soulbound weapons are pretty forgettable. They all share the same issue of no Lash and no Durgen Steel, which'll make them underwhelming unless being put on a character that wasn't going to get any of the scarce resources anyways. Stormcaller, of course, is amazing, but most of the classes that would want to use it can use it right now. I guess Rogue might want in on that? Nightshroud doesn't do anything special. The Redeemer rocks against Vessels, but is mundane like Nightshroud beyond that. I guess Greenstone's free Nature's Mark per battle is kinda spiffy, but not that great.

 

A big issue is a lot of these have a % of doing something on a hit/crit, and even if we assume they're hit/crit 100% of the time, it still adds up to less effect than just a straight 25% damage boost from a Lash. Or for the non-damage effects, with buffs+debuffs, it's much better to go with a weapon that does stuff on Crit, as those will fire off much more reliably.

Don't forget that at the moment all the soulbound 2 handed weapons on a Paladin are a DPS loss as at times when destroy vessel goes off on a non vessel it does nothing to that bad guy and does not add FoD fire last.  Same when the Sleeper paralyzes.  I agree they are forgettable at the moment.