Backstab and Shadowing beyond.

[Torm51]

Do you get a backstab when you are within 2m of the target and are currently shadowing?  I killed Helig last night with my party rogue and the MATH added up but the combat log did not say it was a backstab.  I think it had to of been as the rogue is level 6 so his pistol is just a fine pistol.  Max damage is 33 and hit Blindstrike crit from shadowing beyond for 69....That's a bit more then 100% weapon damage.  In other instances where I am just sneaking with my party and backstab it is included in the combat log.  Anyone know for sure?

[Heijoushin]

If it didn't say backstab, then it wasn't a backstab... can you even get a backstab with a pistol? 

I'm not really wild about the ability because it's so hard to activate compared to sneak attack. You really have to walk up to the enemy and plunge the weapon directly into his flesh I think.

[Torm51]

Nope the ability specifically says as long as you are within 2m it can be any weapon. Also I backstab with firearms all the time with that guy. Agreed it is hard to set up but with individual stealth now it works.

[abaris]

If it didn't say backstab, then it wasn't a backstab... can you even get a backstab with a pistol? 

I'm not really wild about the ability because it's so hard to activate compared to sneak attack. You really have to walk up to the enemy and plunge the weapon directly into his flesh I think.

 

In the ability description it says, ranged weapons, as long as you're within 2 meters.

[Nobear]

People used to really rag on Backstab, and some still do. I made a thread about a week ago about using Backstab for a stealth assassin solo run, and some people added some ideas, but I also like the idea of using it in a party with individual stealth.

 

There's a thrill of assassinating someone from the shadows that is, in part, amplified by any difficulty involved in setting it up. I get bored in games like Skyrim where it becomes too easy to pull it off as you level and your stealth skill maxes. It's more satisfying if there is at least some tradeoff with maybe not being able to pull it off successfully 100% of the time.

[Torm51]

Whenever I backstab with shadowing beyond it seems like it works as the math is correct.  the damage I am doing from a max damage fine pistol 33 damage pistol is at 69.  That is definitely 100%.  I just think the log doesn't say it when you use it with Shadowing Beyond.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Torm51

[Boeroer]

But shouldn't you do +150% of base damage? Because of sneak attack + backstab? Or is an attack while using Shadowing Beyond not considered a sneak attack like when you hit out of stealth?

[Torm51]

On the combat log its actually only giving me a sneak attack.  So maybe an attack under shadowing is not considered a backstab.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Torm51

[Nobear]

If you add 50% (Sneak Attack) + 25% (Blinding Strike) + anything from Str that's over 25%, that equals over 100%.

 

Edit: Wait, did you say you crit? That's another 50%. Even after DR, in certain cases that could more than double the max hit value. Is the 33 you quoted the max damage listed as base, or after Str? To keep the calculation simple, start with the base value and add all damage bonus sources together for your final % increased damage.

 

Update: I also forgot about weapon quality (another 15% to 45%), but I forget if that's factored into base damage or not.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Nobear

[Nague]

i think abilities cant backstab, i only ever backstabbed in 2.0 with my normal attacks.

 

But its better to not use it anyways and better get consistently useful talents.

[Boeroer]

I think that's not right. I recall that I used point blank ranged arquebus shots with blindind strike out of stealth to open fights - and backstab worked.

[Torm51]

Correct I have to.  Out of stealth.  I will do it tonight and post a picture.  Seems like I should report it in the bugs forum.

[peddroelm]

Backstab modifer WILL NOT APPLY when breaking stealth with special attacks ( ex blinding strike // crippling strike // etc). It only works for auto-attacks. Bug report filed and acknowledged several months ago .. 

[Torm51]

Backstab modifer WILL NOT APPLY when breaking stealth with special attacks ( ex blinding strike // crippling strike // etc). It only works for auto-attacks. Bug report filed and acknowledged several months ago ..

 

Ok cool so if i shadow and auto attack backstab should work. I will try it tonight.

[Boeroer]

How stupid. Could it be that it worked some time ago? Because I really really think it worked when I tried it. But that was close after release.

[Torm51]

How stupid. Could it be that it worked some time ago? Because I really really think it worked when I tried it. But that was close after release.

Its still 100% weapon damage which is a lot.  Maybe they think that 150% in one hit is too much?

[Boeroer]

It is 150% because of sneak attack plus backstab (or used to be - who knows now). Just the +25% from the special attack are missing.

[Boeroer]

I think it's lame. If you compare it to deathblows that stacks with sneak and special attack it stinks. Especially since you can only use it once and under very special conditions.

[Torm51]

Ya maybe ill spec out of it.  I mean that's still TWO possible 150% damage attacks in a boss fight lets say.  Could be better obviously.  Also you can have Deathblow and Backstab right? 

[Boeroer]

That's very unlikely but possible with Shadowing Beyond or indiv. stealth. For solo runs that only works with shadowing.

[Nobear]

That's very unlikely but possible with Shadowing Beyond or indiv. stealth. For solo runs that only works with shadowing.

 

I don't see why solo would be any different from party. Of course you probably can't get the drop on all enemies even with high stealth and move speed, but it ought to work with a high % of them.

 

Edit: I think I misread, and you were referring not to the ability to do two backstabs per fight, but the ability to combine Backstab with Deathblows (and Sneak Attack ofc).

 

I bought the expansion pass last night and started a 2.0 solo rogue and just checked out some of the 2.0 changes, but I'm really digging this school semester and it's kind of funny, but I'm not feeling a huge draw to play the expansion content right away. I'm sure it'll come back. That's the way things tend to be with me and computer games — their big draw comes and goes in waves.

 

Anyway, when I get around to it (before or after I play the expansion content with a party), my thought with a solo rogue is to try opening with a Backstab, then Blinding Strike, and dropping as many foes as I can quickly before using Shadowing Beyond to escape, rinse repeat. I could always respec out of Backstab at higher levels when I get Deathblows, and open fights instead with Rotfinger Gloves. Or I could keep Backstab and follow Blinding Strike with Crippling Strike to trigger Deathblows all the same, although most if not all enemies would probably be dead by this point, meaning Deathblows would see little use. So most likely I'd spec out of Backstab when I got Deathblows and do the Rotfinger Gloves thing.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Nobear