Solo as a cipher on Hard - possible at all in 1.06?

[Perturabo]

Just what it says on the tin. I find the 1.06 ciphers most solo-unfriendly due to long spell casts and lack of reliable defense (similar to arcane veil for example). There are stories abound of people soloing the game on PoTD; as a cipher, is this even within the realm of possibility? And would it be based on exploiting and cheesing (i.e. running away so the mob leashes, exploiting bad pathfinding, etc.)?

[Raven Darkholme]

I soloed on Potd, before 1.06.

Back then it was slightly easier, mostly because of stronger retaliation.

But I knew way less about the game, these days a solo would go even more smoothly in spite of 1.06.

Early on you exploit here and there, mostly wirh chokepoints, later on when you have 2 retaliation items it's not needed anymore.

[Nobear]

Just what it says on the tin. I find the 1.06 ciphers most solo-unfriendly due to long spell casts and lack of reliable defense (similar to arcane veil for example). There are stories abound of people soloing the game on PoTD; as a cipher, is this even within the realm of possibility? And would it be based on exploiting and cheesing (i.e. running away so the mob leashes, exploiting bad pathfinding, etc.)?

 

After beating the game on PoTD with a full party of companions, my first two PoTD solo characters (which I'm playing in two concurrent saves, with Expert mode but not Trial of Iron yet) are a melee wizard and a melee cipher. At first I found the wizard to be a lot more tanky (despite less tanky stats) and more powerful overall, but I'm learning and making my cipher more viable. So far I am only level 4 and have just cleared enough of Raedric's Hold to get the money for Blunting Belt and the Bronze Horn Figurine after completing the blacksmith's quest, which will hopefully allow me to take Caed Nua (though that remains to be seen). I'm not going to lie, I've died many times, and I think I'm only able to appreciate the challenge because I've already beat the game and am ready for something more punishing.

 

One thing I discovered that helped a lot is that, if you take Quick Switch as your first talent, this will negate the auto attack recovery time (even if you have dumped Dex) from wearing plate armor. So I've been wielding two two-handed weapons and quick-switching back and forth as soon as my character swings, hit or miss. Dex and other speed mods still affect the swing speed, but it's still pretty high DPS (and Focus gain) with dumped Dex, which allows you to max Per, Res, and Might. I'm an Aedyrian Moon Godlike and my stats are

 

18/9/4/18/10/19

 

I am focusing on Fast-casting powers, although I do have some Average speed ones, mostly debuff powers for opening a fight from stealth. The other benefit of Quick Switch is that, since it negates recovery after a weapon swing, your next action will start right away, whether that's a swing from your new weapon, a quick slot item, or a power. And when you start not having to recover, Fast-casting powers are almost instant even with dumped Dex.

 

So far my level 1 and 2 powers are Eyestrike, Antipathetic Field, Whisper of Treason, Mental Binding, Psychovampiric Shield, and Mind Blades. For soloing, I'd consider Recall Agony over Mind Blades, but it doesn't currently work, and Phantom Foes is bugged. I've submitted or updated bug reports for both of these abilities.

 

The only time I've used Whisper of Treason so far is for small groups of forest trolls or similar slow-moving enemies, because of its Slow cast time, but it's great for that. Antipathetic Field is awesome, but you have to get used to when and how to use it. Sometimes you'll be swarmed by so many enemies that one will be literally running circles around the rest trying to get in, which is when you use his own stupidity to melt all his allies LOL! Unless you're playing to exploit cheese positioning, you may be disappointed that you can't make good use of Antipathetic Field in most fights, but when you can make good use of it you will thank yourself. I tend to open against a single enemy with Psychovampiric Shield, against most fairly strong packs with Eyestrike, and against weak packs with Mind Blades.

 

Time will tell how viable this play style is in the long run, but when I get retaliation items I will probably switch to being a more typical solo melee cipher with a small shield and using retaliation + Carow Golan for focus generation. In this case, Quick Switch may become a "wasted" talent mid-endgame, even though I'd say it helps early on. It does require a lot of micro, though, so I'd only bother with it for solo play.

 

So, since I have what I'd consider educated hope that I could beat the game with a melee cipher on PoTD, it will still be a challenge on Hard depending on your level of experience with the game, but I'm confident that it'd be doable. Probably not nearly as easy as making your first solo run a tank who mostly (ab)uses scrolls, but more fun IMHO.

[Perturabo]

Very interesting. Why so much Resolve?

[Nobear]

Very interesting. Why so much Resolve?

 

Resolve and Per in 1.0.6 to maximize Deflection. You need all the Deflection you can get if you're soloing PoTD, especially for a class that, as you say, is kind of lacking in reliable defense. Opening a fight from stealth with Psychovampiric Shield does help there, although it's not perfectly reliable because it can graze or even miss. I'm looking forward to Body Attunement and Borrowed Instincts for further survivability (not to mention damage and accuracy).

 

Even at level 4, I think certain fights are better done with a hatchet and small shield than with two-hander quick-switching. Namely, fights like the ones in Raedric's Hold Dungeons where you are swarmed with guls. I've just started there, but I'm thinking for those fights I'll want to start with a Tanglefoot scroll for debuffing their Reflex defense, then use Antipathetic Field on an enemy that's left running around the outside once the enemies have swarmed around me. It's an ongoing experiment, but I'm optimistic.

 

Edit: My stats will probably remain good in 2.0, but my survivability may drop enough that the gain in accuracy can't make up for it. This remains to be seen.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Nobear

[Raven Darkholme]

I've got to add, that you don't need to max deflection on a cipher.

Mine had one of both stats at 10 or even less and still soloed PotD successfully.

Whether you have 100 def on level 12 or 110, doesn't matter that much.

In 2.0. END will be the ciphers best defensive stat for solo.

[Nobear]

I've got to add, that you don't need to max deflection on a cipher.

Mine had one of both stats at 10 or even less and still soloed PotD successfully.

Whether you have 100 def on level 12 or 110, doesn't matter that much.

In 2.0. END will be the ciphers best defensive stat for solo.

 

So what build would you recommend for melee cipher soloing in 1.0.6? As I say, my current build is 18/9/4/18/10/19. I'd like to have more Dex or Int, but I didn't think I could justify not maxing deflection. So what would your stat spread be?

 

Edit: I do appreciate the concentration resistance from maxed Resolve more than the interrupt of Perception, especially since I have other stronger methods for CC. If I went from maxing Per to dumping it, I'd lose 15 deflection, which seems pretty significant, but do you think my build would still be improved overall by doing this and putting more in Dex and/or Int?

Edited August 18, 2015 by Nobear

[Raven Darkholme]

If I rolled a cipher in 1.06. I'd probably not max any skill.

You can get Might from starting 16 up to 20 just by generally being a ****. Same goes for Res.

So definitely don't go beyond 16 in those skills, you probably can get away with 14 because of resting bonuses and cheap food.

[Nobear]

If I rolled a cipher in 1.06. I'd probably not max any skill.

You can get Might from starting 16 up to 20 just by generally being a ****. Same goes for Res.

So definitely don't go beyond 16 in those skills, you probably can get away with 14 because of resting bonuses and cheap food.

 

I'm much more concerned with maximizing my combat performance, than with passing the highest number of dialogue and scripted event checks possible. So do you think it would be an improvement in combat to go from 18/9/4/18/10/19 to 18/9/10/3/19/19? How about 18/3/16/3/19/19, or do you think that'd be too squishy?

 

One consequence of the last build would be terrible Fortitude, but how important is Fort for soloing as a melee character? So far, the only Fort-targetting abilities I've encountered have been CC effects that would probably still perma-stun me with a decent Fort score, and I'm thinking figurines might be the best thing I can do to avoid them. The middle build would have terrible Reflex. Would taking Weapon and Shield Style be enough to make up for this?

 

Decisions decisions... my toughest enemy keeping me from beating PoTD solo may prove to be indecision!

[Raven Darkholme]

You're not gonna tank adra as cipher, so Fort pretty much doesn't matter.

18/9/10/3/19/19

Seems safe to me.

[Nobear]

You're not gonna tank adra as cipher, so Fort pretty much doesn't matter.

18/9/10/3/19/19

Seems safe to me.

 

Ok thank you, I'll see how that compares for me.

 

Edit: Hmm, so there's no way to avoid getting one-shot by the Adra Dragon as a cipher if you let her get to you, no matter your build? I guess you'd pretty much have to use a bow and somehow keep her permanently at max range then, huh? Like the guy with the solo ranger kill video, except you don't have any CC that lasts nearly as long as a ranger's Binding Roots. Maybe with a lot of Paralyze scrolls? lol sheesh that'd be one heck of a challenge however you played it.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Nobear