1.04[bug] Player's moving units AUTO-ENGAGE whatever hostile unit they stumble upon while moving

[peddroelm]

Problem becomes quickly obvious with full melee party .  Your units ordered to move behind enemy targets (for flanking)- MOVE STRAIGHT AT THEM and then promptly get stuck into a most often non-flanking position and engage the target (FAIL !).. 
 

 

Is there something FORCING your moving units to auto-engage whatever stumbles into their path while on the move? HOW DO WE DISABLE IT ? DON'T stop and engage random crap along the way unless engaged first or specifically ordered to do so !! Otherwise ignore distractions (try to go around or signal no path found) and move into the flanking position I've ordered you to move to ... THIS IS PROBABLY THE SETTING THAT MAKES THE BRAIN DEAD AI UNITS GLUE TO FIRST UNIT IN MELEE RANGE, but for God-sake don't apply it to my units also ...

 

You can micro around it by always moving your characters in straight lines making sure no hostile enemy unit crosses the planned  movement path (because otherwise get stuck in melee in wrong position) .. And only order to attack when "behind target" ..

 

But with 7 melee units doing this every combat gets incredibly frustrating and needlessly time consuming  ..

Edited April 24, 2015 by peddroelm

[Zwiebelchen]

This is basicly a protection against disengagement attacks: the enemy turns towards your moving unit, engaging it, which would immediately trigger a disengagement attack, potentially killing your melee. The way it works now, your NPCs will immediately engage and enemy that engages them to prevent the disengagement attack.

 

Unfortunately, this behaviour is extremely one-sided in favour of the AI. Enemies will frequently run by your party members, not eating the disengagement attack even if you ordered them to attack the runner.

[peddroelm]

 

The way it works now, your NPCs will immediately engage and enemy that engages them to prevent the disengagement attack.

 

Engaging after being engaged by AI is OK (healthy move.. ) . Problem is when AI is ALREADY engaged to capacity by other units.. Your dude will still stick like a fly to **** instead of moving to flank as ordered WITH ZERO risk of dis-engagement attack . .why !!?!? ?

 

He did not engage me yet (how could he - he's already engaging 1/2/../5/.. however many his engagement limit is ) - MY UNIT DOES NOT NEED TO STOP.. And still it stops and engages AGAINST orders.. Takes a second order to cause him to move into position (and he will move without dis-engagement attack since the target was already engaged) ..

 

 

/s Question - if I shoot/hang 2 of my units for insubordination - will the remaining units obey my orders then ?? Why isn't this listed under game mechanics in the manual ? s/

What does one have to do to make his units obey simple move commands ?!? .

 

(I thought gaming industry had that already figured in 1992 when they made Dune II . Would viewing some short videos of ordering a few units to move in Dune 2 might help devs familiarize themselves with the basing gaming concept of "moving units" ) ..

Edited April 24, 2015 by peddroelm

[Raz415]

Are you fighting the Adra Dragon? That is the only area where I have experienced this. Everywhere else, they behave normally. If there are only melee enemies, I usually put my people in formation and wait for them to come to me and it works without a problem. But in the Adra Dragon room, they all just start running to attack something unless they have a queue full of orders.

[peddroelm]

Are you fighting the Adra Dragon? ..

I'm whining about behavior that happens on all maps .. (not map specific)

[Zwiebelchen]

I also have to say that I never had this problem, really, except if the enemy actually did engage me, in which not moving further is actually a good idea...

 

I've been using grieving mother as a dual-wield backstabber in my games and she never stopped until reaching the ordered position unless when engaged.

 

What were the enemies you've had this problem with? Maybe those were enemies with a higher engagement limit (like Ogres).

[peddroelm]

What were the enemies you've had this problem with? Maybe those were enemies with a higher engagement limit (like Ogres).

Not enemy time related - have you ever played with 6 + 1 AC melee units ? Moving them all into proper position is currently a huge chore ..Perhaps a video is required to showcase grievance..

Edited April 24, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

And matters gets more complicated when you get to consider +extra engagement limit bonuses.. How do you make use of the extra engagement "threat" without auto-engagement ? Do we need an extra button / Action in interface to make use of such items ?

 

Say a particular char's engagement limit is raised to 3 .

Separate button for attack (implicit engage) order/action and one to "engage/threaten" 2 other specific other targets of the 5 surrounding him/her ..  

 

How are those two targets selected with auto engagement on? Can I switch (engagement) targets  without switching attack target ?

 

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And somewhat unrelated - what about the INVISIBLE OBSTACLES scattered on every map (and running numbers on the pathing system ) ? Where's my show combat grid//valid movement "hexes" command ? Could you show in a different color UN-WALKABLE tiles//hexes in combat ? How does one position/plan to maneuver his/her units when there's "invisible forcefields" all over the maps ?

Edited April 24, 2015 by peddroelm

[Khalid the bear]

you can disable stopon engagement in options (game-disable party movement stop on engagement)

[peddroelm]

you can disable stopon engagement in options (game-disable party movement stop on engagement)

That is actually a useless/trap/suicidal option never to be picked (again)..

 

It will make your guys ignore ALL/EVERY dis-engagement threats ..And since you can't really see who's actually engaged to what once combat starts ( they're fighting behind a three//under a rock // building // useless spell effect//in the shade )  there's ALWAYS SOMETHING ON TOP of the VITAL combat indicators (more "basic stuff" such as char positions and engagement indicators ) , each  move order has the potential to get your guys killed ..

 

/s Sure, you can't find your characters on screen, so you will usually have no  idea what each of them is doing during the fight (who cares about this sort of stuff anyway ? ) - but look at that glowing/pulsating/ .. whatever gorgeous spell effect (our art department worked 6 months on the animation for this particular spell effect) . Isn't it a work of art ? /   How does one turn off all/every spell effects ? I might be defective for wanting to be able to see the units I'm supposed to control during combat ? (Not that they obey my commands much when I'm actually able to see them anyway ..)  I can always turn off my monitor if I ever feel like fighting with no visual feedback ..

Edited April 24, 2015 by peddroelm

[Khalid the bear]

or yocan use IE mod and disable engagement mechanics completly

[peddroelm]

or yocan use IE mod and disable engagement mechanics completly

Why would I want to disable such a core mechanic around which the entire combat system is built up // perks balanced // etc etc  ..

 

Why ??  You can't stand combat engagement you go play some other game .. (not my case ..)

 

" ..Doctor, this patient suffers  from a infection, how do we treat it ? 

   .. Amputate its HEAD !! (disable engagement mechanic) "

Edited April 24, 2015 by peddroelm

[Khalid the bear]

so what do you actualy want? engagement, withengagement stops, but?

[peddroelm]

so what do you actualy want? engagement, withengagement stops, but?

with NO engagement stops unless engaged/threatened upon first ..

 

I also would like a way to select which additional enemies my enemies threaten/engage on top of the unit they're currently attacking ..  Hypothetical  example with 3 engagement on tank surrounded by 1 bear, 2 wolves and 3 other animals..  Attack bear , threaten the 2 wolves, the other animals currently attacking my tank  are free to  move away without disengagement attack risk from my tank ..

[Zwiebelchen]

 

so what do you actualy want? engagement, withengagement stops, but?

 

with NO engagement stops unless engaged/threatened upon first ..

 

... which is basicly how it works. At least for me. I don't know what you're doing different.

[Dignity]

I get this problem too and it's incredibly annoying. Pathfinding in general in this game is abysmal and this issue just compounds it further. As bad as it is for the OP's case, with a melee heavy party I find it infinitely more annoying with spell casters, especially priests with their short ranged spells.

 

What typically happens is I have my frontline move in to create an engagement wall and gather enemies in. From there the idea of course is to bombard the melee with buffs/debuffs and other AOE shenanigans. What tends to happen however is Durance runs up in range to cast his spell, somehow decides that he has to take the path that gets him beside an enemy and even if he does on an already engaged enemy's flank (in other words he's not being engaged by the enemy) he then completely forgets everything I've ordered him to do and instead chooses to get stuck in the melee clump autoattacking away at said mob.

 

As much as I don't mind microing battles, its situations like this where I have to immediately go into mass pause fests to peel my casters off their self imposed melee engagement, reposition (sometimes multiple times because they have the habit of repeating said issue) just to get a spell off, that I sometimes sigh and think to myself that they may as well have just gone with turned based combat ala Divinity OS to save us the headaches of dealing with the incompetent party AI and pathfinding.

 

And no I don't want to turn off stop on engament because it is useful where it's intended to be (your warrior types) but seriously the pathfinding and the autonomous control and behavior (such as stopping what they're doing to autoattack a charmed party member, I mean are you even serious right now) of the characters in this game are far worse than the original releases of the IE games from way back when.

 

I really hope they work on improving these deficiencies with the combat engine of this game, because when everything is flowing and your party members are in fact doing what you tell them to do combat in this game is an incredible joy.