[solo PotD] Retalitation Rouge vs Retalitation Cipher question

[Voltron]

Simple: which is better.

 

I like Rogue for free invisibility if things go bad. However his biggest damage bonuses are from sneak attack and backstab which really do not matter on retalitation build since enemies do not hit you. They have riposte, which is basicly 3rd retalition on you, however imo they lack enough bonuses to damage when solo to bumb retalition damage enough.

 

Of course those are mine concers since I didn't solo PotD with Rogue yet.

 

Cipher on the other hand have perma 40% damage bonus for retalitation, very good CC and retalition generate his focus so fast (when you use 2 retalitation items) that you can spam you damage/CC spells as long as you are getting hit. Which is on one hand good, but on the other hand requires taking hits and Cipher is not most tanky class, not it has ability to break free from fight as rouge.

 

Good think about Rogue is that you can dump two stats: DEX and INT, giving your self more Resolve. Cipher on the other hand has only DEX as dump stat.

 

So my questions is: which one wroks better in solo with retalitation gear and if you have experience with them, please share damage numbers, damage bonuses and you min/max ideas.

 

Thanks

Edited April 19, 2015 by Voltron

[Raven Darkholme]

Since I am nearly level 11 in solo Potd with my cipher I willshare info, but haven't the time right now.

I used Perception as second dump stat it works quite well.

[MadDemiurg]

Retaliation rogue doesn't strike me as a great build. Riposte is a pretty weak talent if you look at it closely. It gives you 20% chance to counterattack if the enemy MISSES. Rogue doesn't start with a great deflection, so miss chance would be very far form 100% tbh. Realistically it's 10% at best. Retaliation damage itself is not that great. Adept evasion and higher base endurance would make rogue a bit more durable, at least until cipher gets to his protective spells. Main selling point is shadowing beyond which allows to reposition and escape fights, but all rogues have it.

 

In terms of offense if's not even comparable though, esp high levels. If you want the numbers: 1 amplified wave = 50 dmg to everything on screen + prone. You can open up with 2 and then cast a 3rd one after a single blunderbus shot. Bit broken I think. So if you want to actually kill stuff go cipher.

Edited April 19, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Voltron]

Retaliation rogue doesn't strike me as a great build. Riposte is a pretty weak talent if you look at it closely. It gives you 20% chance to counterattack if the enemy MISSES. Rogue doesn't start with a great deflection, so miss chance would be very far form 100% tbh. Realistically it's 10% at best. Adept evasion and higher base endurance would make rogue a bit more durable, at least until cipher gets to his protective spells. Main selling point is shadowing beyond which allows to reposition and escape fights, but all rogues have it.

 

In terms of offence if's not even comparable though, esp high levels. If you want the numbers: 1 amplified wave = 50 dmg to everything on screen + prone. You can open up with 2 and then cast a 3rd one after a single blunderbus shot. Bit broken I think. So if you want to actually kill stuff go cipher.

 

But wasn't Amplified Wave spell that require you to target ally? I want solo build as I mentioned in thread. Or can you use AW on enemy also or yourself?

I also do not think Rouge is that good. But Cipher sounds good really.

[MadDemiurg]

You can use AW on figurine summons. They are per rest, but you'll have them out for harder fights.

[Voltron]

You can use AW on figurine summons. They are per rest, but you'll have them out for harder fights.

 

True. Did you try this build with retalition tank Cipher? Any stats/tactics you would like to share?

 

What race? I think Moon Like and Aumanin (or something like that, I never remember this race stupid name...) would be best. First for free healing, since Cipher lacks healing and second for +2 Might and extra +20 defense to Prone and Stun.

[MadDemiurg]

I've actually finished the game solo with moonlike cipher that used retaliation in melee (not necessarily a tank). One of the key tactics is using confusion from range (tenuous grasp and mind plague later on) and let enemies kill each other. You'll want fast runner to disengage if things go wrong. I only tanked when I have no other choice, otherwise it's possible to defeat a lot of encounters without actually dealing any significant damage yourself. I won't suggest an optimal stat spread, since a lot of them can work depending on your preferences, but you definitely want decent INT.

 

When you go "tank mode" you find a bottleneck, switch to W+S and spam mind lance mainly, although dominating half the enemies with ring leader and letting them do the dirty work is an option too.

[Raven Darkholme]

Moonlike is an awesome race for cipher.(and every other class/build)

Riposte as stated before is quite bad. Just fight the doemenel assassin group in Olan's Gift if you have bad rep with them and in the whole fight you will get hit by riposte maybe three or four times.

Cipher is awesome with retaliate because it synergizes perfectly with focus builsing, you will never worry about having to little focus again, you don't even need draining whip.

You need good nerves for the fights since you get hit a lot, but you also kill extremely fast. I rarely use endurance potions or any consumables for that matter.

[drumther]

If I were to play Rogue solo in PotD, I would totally ignore Riposte. To be honest, felt like a waste of a talent for me.

 

Chances to Riposte are really low in my experience (ignoring the fact it is actually 20% of missed hits). You'll only get a few riposte once you outlevel the monster you're trying to kill, but even then, your riposte damage relies on accuracy vs deflection/reflex/whatever too. So, if you really really make an effort to boost your deflection high enough in orther to boost your riposte chances, you'll end up with low accuracy and probably missing most of them.

 

For instance, shadows have something around 80~90 deflection (I think it was 85). By the time you fight'em, your accuracy will probably never be high enough to be sure that every riposte will hit them. In the end, 20% of missed hits will riposte and 20% of the ripostes will end up in hit on a non-trash monster. That's 0.04% chance of a missed hit to turn into a successful riposte hit and sounds like a waste of a talent to me.