Slicken + Chill Fog are going to be nerfed in 1.03?

[Blackthane]

So what are the new arguments for wizards in PotD after 1.03? 

[RevBlue]

why do we need to convince you to play?

[Blackthane]

I'm  just trying to figure out if I should stick to ciphers and druids, or are there some other better spells later? 

 

I get the rationale behind the change to Chill Fog (wizards have FF on for all their spells, odd that a level 1 missed the memo), but I'm not so sure the logic behind a pool of oil being single target has roleplaying as its primary focus. 

[Ichthyic]

 

why do we need to convince you to play?

^^what an inane response.

 

here's a better one:

 

to me, this makes wizards even WEAKER than they already were at lower levels.  they basically had 3 spells at level one that made them viable to include in your party.  now two of them are nerfed beyond usefulness.

 

grease has ALWAYS been a save-every-turn kind of spell, in every game it has ever been used in.  this will be the first game, EVER, to make grease a one-time knockdown effect.

 

it was already short duration, already checked against a defense score,  there was no need to nerf it. 

 

nerfing chill fog to last half its current duration would be good, but it too didn't really need a nerf.

 

basically, I say you can now just leave the wizard in your stronghold until you hit level 8, then create a custom one if you want to use one.

 

otherwise, there is little to recommend in playing a wizard now.  i've not at all been impressed with either their control abilities, or their damage output.

 

fireball does pathetic damage.  lightning is near uncontrollable indoors, and also does low damage.  you still have paralyze at least, but that makes you a one trick pony.  all of the other offensive spells level 3 or below have ranges so short, your mage inevitably runs into the middle of a melee to cast them.

 

meh.

 

this is the first old-school rpg I have ever played where I felt like wizards were simply outclassed by pretty much every other class, except paladin maybe.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2015 by Ichthyic

[Odd Hermit]

It needed to happen.

 

Early game Wizard may end up needing a buff though. They still have some strong mid-late game spells(which will probably stay strong). And they're buffing spell ranges on many Wizard spells which should help a ton, since having your Wizard run in short range of a dragon or w/e and getting breath attack one-shot kinda kills a lot of short-range spell tactics.

 

Eldritch Aim is also still strong for getting more reliable hits for full CCs.

 

They haven't fixed/nerfed confusion yet though which needs to happen as well, for Cipher and Wizard.

 

I assume some encounters that are particularly difficult to keep wizards alive through will see some adjustments as well.

[RevBlue]

I'm  just trying to figure out if I should stick to ciphers and druids, or are there some other better spells later? 

 

I get the rationale behind the change to Chill Fog (wizards have FF on for all their spells, odd that a level 1 missed the memo), but I'm not so sure the logic behind a pool of oil being single target has roleplaying as its primary focus. 

 

 

Its not single target, its still AoE but will just make it affect the enemies once and not multiple times. A decent balance since slicken was just a way to disable all the enemies in every fight.

 

 

Also Itchthyic, Im playing a wizard and I find good uses for every spell, just because you don't know how to use it doesn't mean it doesn't work.

[Odd Hermit]

^^what an inane response.

 

here's a better one:

 

to me, this makes wizards even WEAKER than they already were at lower levels.  they basically had 3 spells at level one that made them viable to include in your party.  now two of them are nerfed beyond usefulness.

 

grease has ALWAYS been a save-every-turn kind of spell, in every game it has ever been used in.  this will be the first game, EVER, to make grease a one-time knockdown effect.

 

 

 

Well, Slicken is not grease.

 

Grease in some games just slowed things down. Slicken knocks them on their arse into a full CC that gives them penalties to defenses.

 

I do think it could've been tweaked in a different way to keep its AoE field deal, but not without getting rid of that full CC. It was insanely valuable for a level 1 spell.

[tamurm]

Yeah, they pretty much destroyed the wizard class with those changes. Unless Slicken's 'one time' check keeps the target prone for a LONG time. Instead of 2 seconds. - A spell is not worth 2 seconds. They need to buff the prone duration to 8 seconds.

 

Chill Fog was great, but making it Friend or Foe isn't the way to tone it down, it's a way to utterly break it. Shorten it's duration.

 

So now the wizard has only a couple good spells level 1 spells. Fan of Flames, Eldritch Aim - but that can be scrolled or potioned by anyone. Sure it costs money, but if you actually need the spell, It's a better investment than bringing a wizard.

 

Increasing the RANGE of spells is a nice change. However just because you can throw a turd further, a turd is still a turd.

 

Curse of Blackened Sight becoming FOE only is nice, but doesn't make up for the other nerfs.

 

Hitting level 9 no longer will make a wizard feel powerful. We even suggested time and time again to lower when level 1 spells becoming encounter to 7. It just makes us cast Fan of Flames more, admittedly, a high damaging spell, but other classes offer better utility and FoE only AoE.

 

Hitting level 11 even before was utterly meaningless, because level 2 spells are still giant stinkers, and rarely even worth casting in 'Filler' encounters. It has it's 'fun' spells, like rolling flames. Just seeing it roll around is amusing, but, it's never used in any serious encounter.

Edited April 3, 2015 by tamurm

[Odd Hermit]

I was using Chill Fog without cheesing its lack of friendly fire. It'll be fine. It's still strong, and Wizards should have high int giving it a decent size no-friendly fire edge.

[Badesumofu]

Slicken is currently crazy-OP. Chill Fog will still be very useful, just need to take a bit more care with it. 21 Int and a Ring of Overseeing makes it pretty easy to target those AoEs in the right place.

[Blackthane]

So if I'm interpreting the responses right so far, basically from being a AoE freeze/knockdown/blind wizard, 1.03 changes it such that we're supposed to be blinding enemies from far? While the druid and cipher still outdamages wizard at higher levels? And the cipher doesn't need to rest for spells? 

 

edit: Int 21 and Ring of Overseeing for Chill Fog control. Got it. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by Blackthane

[Parsong]

Slicken is currently crazy-OP. Chill Fog will still be very useful, just need to take a bit more care with it. 21 Int and a Ring of Overseeing makes it pretty easy to target those AoEs in the right place.

 

Where do i get that ring?

[tamurm]

Slicken is currently crazy-OP. Chill Fog will still be very useful, just need to take a bit more care with it. 21 Int and a Ring of Overseeing makes it pretty easy to target those AoEs in the right place.

 

I agree Chill Fog will still be useful. However, I do not agree with making Slicken worthless. Just because it's currently overpowered , just means it should be toned down. Not made utterly useless. If anything, this is what the new Slicken should do.

 

Reflex or Knocked Prone, 3 seconds, and reflex or be hobbled for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds. 

 

It still likely leaves a patch of 'Slick' material on the ground, I imagine. People walking into it after the fact would only be 'hobbled.'

 

If we're competing with overpowered spells, Cipher is leagues ahead.

Compare Mental Binding to Fetid Caress. - One is FoE only, extremely fast to cast, Paralyzes for only a slightly shorter time, and has a much better 'side-effect' AoE. - and that side effect is FOE only.

[Daemonjax]

They should of just made spells moddable, so we could balance it ourselves.

 

Have the game read all item/ability/talent/spells/class features from an xml when the game launches and let us decide how balance it.

[Schyzm]

wizards are still possibly better than ciphers, just because the per rest resource mechanic is superior for beating hard fights, and those are the relevant ones. but I imagine cipher is going to feel a lot better designed and more fun and consistent.

[Heijoushin]

Those were two of my favorite spells, but as others had said, it needed to happen. Silly to have ridiculously powerful lvl 1 spells (even Fan of Flames is a little OP)

 

I'm still going to play a wizard though.