A few questions about PoE

[Vaalac]

Hello !

 

I finally decided to go further in the backer beta, that I really love. The environments, the writting, and the combats (sorry Sensuki I like engagement ) are really great in my opinion.

 

But after playing a few hours I got a few questions :

- I played as a Cypher, and saw a special dialog option because of my class. And it made me wonder, will some companion unlock you specials dialogs ?

Let's say I'm playing a Paladin, if I got a Cypher companion with me when I encounter a NPC with special dialog with cypher, will I be able to use this companion to unlock this dialog option ?

 

- Are skills like "lore" really useful on companions ? I can't help but seing "Lore" as a dialog skill since I already saw a few time a "Lore" dialog option (I'm not really sure about what it does outside of a dialog). But It seems that the "Lore" skill of my companions doesn't matter in that case. If one of them have 8 and I have 4, I will not be able to unlock a "6" Lore dialog option.

 

- I created a "Chanter" companion, I really like the class and was wondering if they were any plan to add some kind of "music/singing" when you activate their song ? I don't mean that you should voice every line they can sing, but a little something would really add to immersion and the charm of the class I think .

[Sensuki]

In that specific instance, you will be able to use the Cipher companion for that dialogue option. I've read it in the dialogue files.

 

Lore allows you to use scrolls (like Wizard scrolls and stuff). In dialogue it doesn't have anything to do with companions.

 

The third one is best responded to by a dev, I would actually recommend asking that question here http://jesawyer.tumblr.com

 

Last I checked they were planning to have VO for chants.

 

There will be people that like Engagement because it (especially on easy and normal) allows you to control the battlefield and easily override AI targeting. on Harder difficulties with more enemies it really restricts how much you can move in encounters without being heavily penalized and just in general prevents us "IE-grogs" from playing the game anything like we played Infinity Engine games - which really sucks.

[Vaalac]

Thanks for your answer, I'll ask on the tumblr for the chants .

 

Without relaunching the debate, I understood why you don't like it. That's true that the "battlefield" is a lot more static that in an IE game and turn a lot more around positioning instead of kitting/movement.

 

I think that's just a question of preference. I played BG for the first time with the Extended Edition, and if it quickly became my favorite RPG with fallout 2, its combat never were its strong point for me. I always felt like I had to exploit the game to win (note that I may be bad at it ). Having to attract Saverock and its lieutenant one by one. Abusing invocation to pass vampires (Level draining, Duh) and illithids (int draining :'(). Having to prebuff myself so much my character probably looked like Schwartznegger after that to vanquish difficult opponents (Dragons, boss...).

 

That's why I like PoE combat right now, I don't feel like I have to "cheat" to win (even if it might come later in the game or in harder difficulties). I have more control on the battlefield, and that's really something I enjoy.

But then again, I respect that, really loving IE games combat, you'd prefer something closer with it and don't enjoy this mechanic.

[Sensuki]

You actually don't have to cheat to win in any of the Infinity Engine encounters really.

Recently a forum member who had played the IE games but not for a long time went back and played them, ran into some problems and was able to overcome them with solutions and lessons from forum members here. If you're interested - here are the relevant threads.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69898-iwd-vs-pe-combat-likes-and-dislikes/

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69947-pe-mechanics-how-is-it-doing-compared-to-ie/

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69987-lets-play-baldurs-gate-2-and-reflect-on-pillars-of-eternity/

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70008-lets-play-baldurs-gate-2-and-reflect-on-pillars-of-eternity-2/

There is no encounter in the IE games that requires kiting, single pulling or cheesing combos. There are more fun ways to play. It's painful that they are not more obvious to most people than they were to me, because it means we get watered down gameplay in this game because of it.

Here's my recent Icewind Dale Let's Play, you might find some tactics there that you might not have been originally aware of

Edited January 14, 2015 by Sensuki

[Vaalac]

I'll take a look at it and maybe try to play better when I'll finally try Icewind dale

[Luckmann]

Both you and Sensuki mention "control the battlefield;
 

[...]

... allows you to control the battlefield and easily override AI targeting. [...]

[...]

... the "battlefield" is a lot more static that in an IE game and turn a lot more around positioning ...
 
[...]
 
I have more control on the battlefield, and that's really something I enjoy.

[...]

And I'm just not seeing it.

Playing exclusively on Hard, the current Engagement system "as-is", I feel that I in fact have incredibly limited battlefield control, simply because once the setpieces are are on the table, they're effectively locked down by engagement and cannot move at all, incapable of repositioning themselves, but more importantly, reposition the opposition.

So there's no actual positioning, except pre-combat (which is funny, because pre-buffing is badwrongfun, but hinging encounters on the immediate initiation is.. fun?) and practically zero battlefield control. That's actually my main problem with engagement right now, not that it allows me to control the battlefield, but that it doesn't. It just locks things down in an amorphous blob that I can exert no control over bar very specific, very limited mechanical abilities that lasts for seconds (when they work, don't get me started on when the rogue decides to path around the blob to use his escape mechanic, disengaging in the process).

Edited January 14, 2015 by Luckmann

[Sensuki]

Yeah as I mentioned, Hard has more enemies so it restricts movement even further - and that's exactly right, it just turns into a pre-position and stand still and make actions. It's rote, banal and boring. Nothing like playing the Infinity Engine games.

[Sensuki]

Apparently some people played the Infinity Engine games like that too ... and to that I say - no wonder you didn't enjoy the combat.

[Luckmann]

I guess the system works as long as you outnumber your opponents, but if you outnumber your opponents, you really have to ask yourself if you need the engagement system to begin with. And it's a poor system if it's going to break down as soon as there's more than 6 opponents on the screen.

 

Imagine the Engagement system and the Tethyrian army in Throne of Bhaal. Or really any encounter with an above-average number of opponents. It's a good thing (or a bad thing, I guess) that there's no gibberlings in this game, because then the people playing Easy and Normal would see the Engagement system as it works now break down, I guess.

[Lord Wafflebum]

If you play on Easy or Normal, engagement is very useful for controlling battles. Normal it's a bit tougher because getting swarmed by enemies happens occasionally and your squishees pay for it.

 

I can totally see how engagement would be a nightmare on Hard+ tho. Didn't really appreciate the difference until I played on Normal.

 

It really all depends on the difficulty you play on. Engagement is swell for folks like me that play on Easy. For Sensuki, well, I expect he'll have to do quite a bit of strategy/tactics adjustment to enjoy the combat- until he mods engagement out anyway.

[Luckmann]

If you play on Easy or Normal, engagement is very useful for controlling battles. Normal it's a bit tougher because getting swarmed by enemies happens occasionally and your squishees pay for it.

 

I can totally see how engagement would be a nightmare on Hard+ tho. Didn't really appreciate the difference until I played on Normal.

 

It really all depends on the difficulty you play on. Engagement is swell for folks like me that play on Easy. For Sensuki, well, I expect he'll have to do quite a bit of strategy/tactics adjustment to enjoy the combat- until he mods engagement out anyway.

 

I guess the system works as long as you outnumber your opponents, but if you outnumber your opponents, you really have to ask yourself if you need the engagement system to begin with. And it's a poor system if it's going to break down as soon as there's more than 6 opponents on the screen.

[PrimeJunta]

You don't need to outnumber your opponents. You just need to hold a line. The spiderfights for example become quite controllable that way. I would not enjoy them with the IE movement rules.

 

Engagement is no fun on Hard with the beetles though, because Adra Beetles (and to a lesser but still significant extent, Stone Beetles) bite so hard you just can't hold a line against them. They just chew their way through. Instead of a way of controlling the field, it becomes an impediment.

[Sensuki]

Actually the spider encounters wouldn't be that much different with IE movement because there's too many of them to fit in the pathing space.