[...] 

 

So, call it what you want, justify it however you like... You are taking something that took real work to produce and not offering something in return, that IS the bottom line, no matter what nonsense justification you concoct.

Now you're just being straight-up belligerent. I realize that you somehow see it as you being entitled to completely disregard what others are saying and attack strawmen that you build up all around them, but you can't expect people to take you seriously when you do. You may ignore earlier posts, but to do so and then claim malice on part of another is completely ridiculous.

 

You're flat-out accusing someone else of a crime, attacking their character and insulting them, despite said someone (me) making their stance clear on the matter. I'm not taking anything from anyone, no matter what kind of nonsense windmill you concoct.

 

 

"You're" in the third-person, as if speaking to anyone who would do it. I was not accusing you, my apologies if you thought that was directed solely at you.

 

I'm not attacking your character or insulting you, or anyone else for that matter. You really need to work on the color of the glass you receive other people's words through. "You're a xxxx xxxx" is a personal attack, "I strongly disagree with your position and the entire premise of what you're saying." is not.

 

I don't agree with the general arguments made about piracy isn't "bad", by you, or anyone else. I explained that before. That's not a result of me talking to you just now, it's what I've thought for a long time. I've heard the arguments done a thousand times over and I've never considered them to be sound... period.

Let me try to give you just a little bit of insight. I've sat and talked with these guys/gals, well not Obsidian, but Gearbox here in Dallas, or at least they were around 9 years ago. At the time I was a Sr. Admin for an internet marketing company in the same building and I smoked. So, I ran into these people regularly in the garage area. The stuff they told me, or I simply overheard because they were venting loudly, about the game industry was mind blowing, I had no idea at all.

 

They are constantly under the gun from so many different things, but the biggest problem is publishers ripping off the studio, or their own fans by not paying for the games. Not only is it ridiculously competitive from a job market standpoint, the rewards of being a "game developer" come at huge personal sacrifice of free time and personal sanity. So, I'm going to sum this up in one sentence:

 

Game developers, artists, etc., be they man or woman, have balls of diamond coated steel to stay in the industry they've chosen.

 

I'm not kidding. I'm an admin, toolmaker, installer developer, cross platform architect and I can work for just about any company that has servers and computers. I don't put in a lot of overtime and I work from home 90% of the time. People who can do what these folks do would, I think, make more money and live a generally more peaceful life if they moved into graphic arts, systems or web programming and also see a lot less competition.

 

They stay in it to make games, and I'm grateful, and the least I can do is drop the cash they're asking for the result of their toils.

To Obsidian I say this.  

If giving me, a backer, a couple of little insignificant thank you gifts is going to upset peop, cause them to pirate the game because they can't get a "full"game then I ask you, OE, please do not give me a backer those gifts.

 

You are already giving me what I wanted and what I pledge for, a game I really want.

 

Thank you, Obsidian

I'm invested in Obsidian's success. I'm a backer because I want them to make amazing games and I had some extra money that month; I recognize that selling many games, and thus making much money, is how they continue the cycle of game production and publication as a self-funding publisher. I want that for them; I want Obsidian to be wildly successful and make huge amounts of money. Therefore, I would vastly prefer people purchase the game; Obsidian needs their dedication.

That being said, I have regurgitated within this thread many of the arguments that I have been told for why people pirate, and I have provided examples of people I know who pirated for you to draw your own moral and ethical conclusions from. The unclear legality of some forms of piracy (re: personal use with no distribution or profit), and the difference between piracy and theft, is a matter of law and neither an opinion of mine nor a justification of any sort. Eventually, as cases are tried and precedent is set, these legal grey areas will one day be made clear, one way or another. That hasn't happened yet.

That is all I have to say on this entire matter.

I like that idea about the possible deity Gaun representing the backers and pre-orders. Since the pre-orders are to some extent financing the finishing of the game, I think it's entirely appropriate and awesome. I like your idea.

Ugh.

 

@Any Mod:

Can this thread please be locked? It's become so bad and makes me so angry I can't stop reading it. Besides, it is way too off topic and is trying to justify piracy which has to be against some sort of rule (maybe just decency?).

I'll never understand why people make threads on company forums about "my friend who pirates" or even flat our piracy in general.

 

At a con a few years ago, some kid went up my friends booth and started talking about how he hated DRM and would pirate whenever he could. He got so upset when my friend started yelling at him, as if it was my friends fault for giving a **** that they cared about him taking this guys $60 game for free.

 

Ugh.

 

@Any Mod:

Can this thread please be locked? It's become so bad and makes me so angry I can't stop reading it. Besides, it is way too off topic and is trying to justify piracy which has to be against some sort of rule (maybe just decency?).

I'll never understand why people make threads on company forums about "my friend who pirates" or even flat our piracy in general.

 

At a con a few years ago, some kid went up my friends booth and started talking about how he hated DRM and would pirate whenever he could. He got so upset when my friend started yelling at him, as if it was my friends fault for giving a **** that they cared about him taking this guys $60 game for free.

 

 

There's people that actually do that?

Edited December 27, 201411 yr by Luckmann

 

I don't agree with the general arguments made about piracy isn't "bad", by you, or anyone else. I explained that before. That's not a result of me talking to you just now, it's what I've thought for a long time. I've heard the arguments done a thousand times over and I've never considered them to be sound... period.

 

 

Has anyone as of yet argued that piracy isn't bad? That piracy isn't the same as thievery has been argued, but that is hardly disputable or a moral statement. I think that people are deliberately staying away from the moral dimension here.

 

(By the way, I am also supporting Obs by pre-ordering, I wish I could display that like you fancy backer guys )

Edited December 27, 201411 yr by ISC

 

 

Ugh.

 

@Any Mod:

Can this thread please be locked? It's become so bad and makes me so angry I can't stop reading it. Besides, it is way too off topic and is trying to justify piracy which has to be against some sort of rule (maybe just decency?).

I'll never understand why people make threads on company forums about "my friend who pirates" or even flat our piracy in general.

 

At a con a few years ago, some kid went up my friends booth and started talking about how he hated DRM and would pirate whenever he could. He got so upset when my friend started yelling at him, as if it was my friends fault for giving a **** that they cared about him taking this guys $60 game for free.

 

 

There's people that actually do that?

 

Yes, there are.  I have an Online friend who hates DRM.  He buys a copy of a game and then pirates the game so he does not have to register it with Steam or whoever. 

 

 

 

Ugh.

 

@Any Mod:

Can this thread please be locked? It's become so bad and makes me so angry I can't stop reading it. Besides, it is way too off topic and is trying to justify piracy which has to be against some sort of rule (maybe just decency?).

I'll never understand why people make threads on company forums about "my friend who pirates" or even flat our piracy in general.

 

At a con a few years ago, some kid went up my friends booth and started talking about how he hated DRM and would pirate whenever he could. He got so upset when my friend started yelling at him, as if it was my friends fault for giving a **** that they cared about him taking this guys $60 game for free.

 

 

There's people that actually do that?

 

Yes, there are.  I have an Online friend who hates DRM.  He buys a copy of a game and then pirates the game so he does not have to register it with Steam or whoever. 

 

 

Oh, I know there's a lot of people that does that. I meant the part where people make threads on company forums about "my friend who pirates" and... oooh, I see what you did there.

 

Seriously though, people that walk up to convention booths and start talking about how they pirated the software? I.. I want to find that hard to believe. I'm split between saying "I'll take 'Things that didn't happen for 500, Alex'" and going "Yup, people are that terrible."

 

Now, if someone buys the product and then pirates it just to avoid the DRM, if someone else gets their panties in a twist over something so inconsequential and cries "Thief!", I don't know what to say.

Edited December 27, 201411 yr by Luckmann

I have an Online friend who hates DRM.  He buys a copy of a game and then pirates the game so he does not have to register it with Steam or whoever.

 

This is what I have difficulties to understand. If I don’t like the way a game is distributed (DRM is such a thing I disagree with) I simply don’t buy it, neither download it from whatever third-party website.

Why would you friend *support* those bad practice by giving them money (buying the game) and recognition (playing the game)?

 

 

I have an Online friend who hates DRM.  He buys a copy of a game and then pirates the game so he does not have to register it with Steam or whoever.

 

This is what I have difficulties to understand. If I don’t like the way a game is distributed (DRM is such a thing I disagree with) I simply don’t buy it, neither download it from whatever third-party website.

Why would you friend *support* those bad practice by giving them money (buying the game) and recognition (playing the game)?

 

 

I have no idea it is one of those things like politics and religion that we agree not to discuss.

Gotten rather off-topic, perhaps. Thread closed per request.

 

Side note: major piracy pro/con debates usually belong in the Computer and Console forum.