Update #71: The Heavy Hitters: Rogues and Rangers

[Stun]

 

Interesting choice of words! You've moved the goal posts. LOL I see you're no longer arguing that to be an RPG, it need only have Role playing and nothing else. Now you're readily admitting that it also needs to be a game.Well, that's true, isn't. Because if it had role playing, and nothing else, it'd just be a graphic novel... a visual Choose-Your-Own-Adventure. And those aren't games.

I would laugh at this, but I'm starting to think you really are this obtuse.

 

In every instance discussing Role-Playing Games, I used the word "Game". Game is a noun, Stun. Surely I don't have to explain the concept of a noun to you?

 

If I say "the only thing a role-playing game requires to be a role-playing game is role-playing", it is very clear to anyone with a basic understanding of English that I'm talking about a game. Not a graphic novel, television show, software program, chat room, or novel, but a game.

 

If you aren't capable of following that, then I highly suggest taking a beginner's course in English.

 

But it's not even a GAME unless it has other mechanics. It's just an interactive story. like a Choose-your-own-adventure e-book.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

You mean all this time I thought I was making a video game and I was just making a fancy CYOA?

Yes. Your life has been a lie.

 

But it's not even a GAME unless it has other mechanics. It's just an interactive story. like a Choose-your-own-adventure e-book.

I used the word game in every instance, it was clear I was talking about games specifically. If that went over your head, you should become acquainted with the function of nouns.

 

Again, a role-playing game is a game with role-playing. There is no requirement for any specific mechanics. None of my statements contradict that in any whatsoever.

 

Judging by the "likes" my posts received, tajero and aluminumtrioxide both got that.

[Candyshark]

I might be too late for discussion.

 

I'm very tentative to class mechanics especially to ranger and druids. And yet I have to find a game that would satisfy me. Those too classes suffer a lot from game mechanics. Playing ranged character in solo games becomes a constant kiting marathons.  Depenency on character speed and avaliable space can severly impact your performance.

 

Even though my love for dual-wielding rangers comes from NWN I don't mind to try a bit "fresher" Obsidian archer type.

 

Though I still a few concerns. It may be too early but if I take BG as analogy I would like to see few issues addressed:

 

1. Constant shoping for ammo. One of reasons i didnt like to use ranged weapons since +5 ammo costs a fortune.

2. Damage depending both weapon and ammo type. Your rarely do best dmg plus rarety of high quality ammo makes it too precious to use.

3. I hope Josh keeps his promise about usefullness of different damage type. But how would bowmaster cover crushing and slashing damage presuming missles are piercing? Even if pet can cover certain dmg type if it still feels that ranger lacks flexibility.

If a melee class can just switch out weapon ranger is stuck with what he has or has to move out of his comfort zone aka grab axes, clubs and start swinging.

4. I really like that ciphers could adapt their attacks against different protections, hope others classes can do same thing to certain extend. in IWD fortitude was one the hardest to crack.

[Stun]

 

But it's not even a GAME unless it has other mechanics. It's just an interactive story. like a Choose-your-own-adventure e-book.

I used the word game in every instance, it was clear I was talking about games specifically. If that went over your head, you should become acquainted with the function of nouns.

 

I see. So then, you should have no problems whatsoever citing me one Game.... one Role Playing Game in the history of computer gaming, that had Role Playing and NOTHING ELSE.

 

Judging by the "likes" my posts received, tajero and aluminumtrioxide both got that.

Oh Boy! A Likes contest!! What are you, 12? Edited February 9, 2014 by Stun

[Hiro Protagonist II]

mounts could be done well, but I can see why they aren't a priority. Maybe for an expansion.

 

Having a stables in the major cities, and places where you can and cannot go with mounts might make them interesting. They could cut travel time and give some advantages in combat (if they're trained and/or armoured)

 

I imagine especially in survival gameplay. For instance going through a large barren wasteland with depleting rations. You might make it through with a mount when you couldn't without one.

 

If you're going down that road with depleting rations, then your characters and horses have to eat everyday or lose health. Doesn't make sense that one small part of a game would have depleting rations with your horses, when the other 99% doesn't have rations at all.

 

If you want horses, then I'd expect the consequences of having those horses. Everything to cost of keeping them, monthly upkeep in stables, venturing across wilderness and when you get to a dungeon, the consequences of leaving them unattended when you're in the dungeon. Otherwise, it's just a free car ride to transport you from A to B. And in a lot of games, you didn't need them due to fast travel between areas.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

But it's not even a GAME unless it has other mechanics. It's just an interactive story. like a Choose-your-own-adventure e-book.

I used the word game in every instance, it was clear I was talking about games specifically. If that went over your head, you should become acquainted with the function of nouns.

I see. So then, you should have no problems whatsoever citing me one Game.... one Role Playing Game in the history of computer gaming, that had Role Playing and NOTHING ELSE. 

Judging by the "likes" my posts received, tajero and aluminumtrioxide both got that.

Oh Boy! A Likes contest!! What are you, 12?

Stun, are you mentally ill? No sane person is this pedantic.

[Stun]

You can't give me an example because you know I'm right. An RPG requires Roleplaying and other gaming mechanics, otherwise, it won't be a game.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Judging by the "likes" my posts received, tajero and aluminumtrioxide both got that.

 

 

I wouldn't be using the 'I got x amount of likes for my post' argument. There was a thread in the other forum where a couple of people were liking each other's posts just to counter someone they were arguing with. And eventually one of those people admitted they were trolling, despite the other liking their posts.

[Stun]

Besides, 2 people "agreeing" with you does not suddenly mean your illogical tripe isn't.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Stun

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

You can't give me an example because you know I'm right. An RPG requires Roleplaying and other gaming mechanics, otherwise, it won't be a game.

I can't give you an example because you're asking me to provide an example of something that I've never argued should exist. If use of the word "game" is that over your head, I highly suggest educating yourself on the function of nouns.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Besides, 2 people "agreeing" with you does not suddenly mean your illogical drivel isn't.

One of us is using actual definitions and proper use of English. The only is throwing a butthurt tantrum.

 

You are the latter princess.

[Stun]

 

You can't give me an example because you know I'm right. An RPG requires Roleplaying and other gaming mechanics, otherwise, it won't be a game.

I can't give you an example because you're asking me to provide an example of something that I've never argued should exist.

 

Really? You haven't argued that Roleplaying is the ONLY thing required for something to be called an RPG?

 

Was it a different KaineParker, then, who said this?

 

 

The only thing a Role-Playing Game must have is Role-Playing.

A ROLE-PLAYING GAME is only required to have ROLE-PLAYING

No. The only thing a Role-Playing Game must have is Role-Playing.

The only requisite feature a Role-Playing game must contain is Role-Playing.

^Emphasis yours.

 

And I'll repeat myself. Show me one RPG in the history of computer gaming that had Roleplaying and nothing else. You can't. Because there are none. Because what you're saying is false. An RPG requires Roleplaying and other mechanics, otherwise it won't be a game.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Stun

[tajerio]

The argument KaineParker has been making the whole time has been about roleplaying games as distinct from other types of games. Not everything else in the world. Games.

 

This level of dedication to trolling on your part, Stun, is really remarkable. At least I hope it's trolling.

[Stun]

The argument KaineParker has been making the whole time has been about roleplaying games as distinct from other types of games.

No, he hasn't. And if he had, he'd still be wrong. Role-playing is simply one gaming mechanic. A mechanic that can (and does) exist in games that Aren't RPGs. Kaine even gave an example of a Sports game that has RP elements. Edited February 9, 2014 by Stun

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

You can't give me an example because you know I'm right. An RPG requires Roleplaying and other gaming mechanics, otherwise, it won't be a game.

I can't give you an example because you're asking me to provide an example of something that I've never argued should exist.

 

Really? You haven't argued that Roleplaying is the ONLY thing required for something to be called an RPG?

 

Was it a different KaineParker, then, who said this?

 

 

The only thing a Role-Playing Game must have is Role-Playing.

A ROLE-PLAYING GAME is only required to have ROLE-PLAYING

No. The only thing a Role-Playing Game must have is Role-Playing.

The only requisite feature a Role-Playing game must contain is Role-Playing.

^Emphasis yours.

 

You know what Stun, you're right. I assumed that you were capable of understanding "game" as "a group of rules or challenges". My fault for assuming that you have an elementary level of reading ability, I apologize for assuming competence on your part.

 

In language hopefully even Stun is capable of comprehending, a Role-Playing Game must have 1) Role-Playing and 2) a group of rules or challenges.

 

And I'll repeat myself. Show me one RPG in the history of computer gaming that had Roleplaying and nothing else.

I've never claimed such a thing existed, so no.

 

Now, please prove your claim that a Role-Playing Game must 1) contain an advancement mechanic and 2) must meet "the laws of capitalism".

 

I've already given a refutation of both with 1) nothing in the name Role-Playing Game presents a requirement for advancement mechanics and 2) Not only are those laws non-existent, but by that logic John Carpenter is not a Sci-Fi movie because it flopped.

 

1. The argument KaineParker has been making the whole time has been about roleplaying games as distinct from other types of games. Not everything else in the world. Games.

 

2. This level of dedication to trolling on your part, Stun, is really remarkable. At least I hope it's trolling.

1. You hit the nail on the head.

2. I hope so as well. The alternative is honestly frightening.

Edited February 9, 2014 by KaineParker

[Stun]

a Role-Playing Game must have 1) Role-Playing and 2) a group of rules or challenges.

Exactly.

 

And in a cRPG, #2 IS an advancement/leveling mechanic, otherwise it's just an adventure game (Like Tomb Raider). If you disagree, then show me an RPG that doesn't have one.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Stun

[Bryy]

You can't give me an example because you know I'm right. An RPG requires Roleplaying and other gaming mechanics, otherwise, it won't be a game.

Stun.

 

If it's a game and it's through the medium of video, it's a video game.

 

Saying visual novels are not video games is not only a gigantic blanket statement, it is fundamentally wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

But it's not even a GAME unless it has other mechanics. It's just an interactive story. like a Choose-your-own-adventure e-book.

I used the word game in every instance, it was clear I was talking about games specifically. If that went over your head, you should become acquainted with the function of nouns.

I see. So then, you should have no problems whatsoever citing me one Game.... one Role Playing Game in the history of computer gaming, that had Role Playing and NOTHING ELSE. 

Judging by the "likes" my posts received, tajero and aluminumtrioxide both got that.

Oh Boy! A Likes contest!! What are you, 12?

Stun, are you mentally ill? No sane person is this pedantic.

 

Hey.

 

Kaine, as someone with autism, I'm asking you to keep it down, okay?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

The argument KaineParker has been making the whole time has been about roleplaying games as distinct from other types of games. Not everything else in the world. Games.

 

This level of dedication to trolling on your part, Stun, is really remarkable. At least I hope it's trolling.

 

Calling someone a troll from the sidelines. tsk tsk. Or is your post a troll as well? I can see and understand both sides of the argument. There are some points I would agree on and some I wouldn't on both sides.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Exactly.

 

And in a cRPG, #2 is an advancement/leveling mechanic. If you disagree, then show me an RPG that doesn't have one.

I don't have to.

 

The definition does not require it, therefore it is not a requirement. If you disagree, show me exactly which part of "Role-Playing Game" the requirement for an advancement leveling mechanic is.

Edited February 9, 2014 by KaineParker

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Hey.

 

Kaine, as someone with autism, I'm asking you to keep it down, okay?

**** I'm sorry dude. Didn't mean to dig at anyone with autism.

[Stun]

 

Exactly.

 

And in a cRPG, #2 is an advancement/leveling mechanic. If you disagree, then show me an RPG that doesn't have one.

I don't have to.

 

The definition does not require it

 

Yeah it does. Especially since you're here claiming that friggin NBA 2k13 is an RPG. Edited February 9, 2014 by Stun

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Yeah it does.

Then prove it.

 

Especially since you're here claiming that friggin NBA 2k13 is an RPG.

Yes, the MyCareer mode in that game is a Role-Playing Game. Far more of one than BioWare's recent relases.

[Ywerion]

  Such a delightful update !

 

  And I totally praise Edér's new look, it was like the only thing slightly bothering me, his original image  made him look like typical battle weary warrior, tired of life and constant fighting (well something among the lines anyway). Now he dowsnt look all "down" and "been there seen it all " and probably will be more fun too.

  What to add? Just keep feeding us these lovely chunks from time to time and keep up the outstanding job.

[Bryy]

 

Hey.

 

Kaine, as someone with autism, I'm asking you to keep it down, okay?

**** I'm sorry dude. Didn't mean to dig at anyone with autism.

 

It's fine, but a few things here:

 

1) You never know who is reading.

2) What if Stun is actually disabled in some form?

 

You're using language in a very hostile manner, and what's more, you're increasing in it.

[Stun]

Then prove it.

Alright. You, yourself, acknowledged that in addition to Role playing, an RPG requires rules/challenges. Now, what separates an RPG's Rules/challenges from a Sports game's rules/challenges (like Madden, or NBA2k13), or an Adventure game's (like Tomb Raider, or Longest Journey) is that in an RPG, the rewards for overcoming the Challenges IS manifested in the advancement/leveling of the protagonist, instead of just an advancement of the story/game itself.

 

 

 

Yes, the MyCareer mode in that game is a Role-Playing Game. Far more of one than BioWare's recent relases.

LOL Bioware's recent releases aside, what Role are you playing in NBA2K13's Career Mode? What exactly are you doing besides controlling a team or a player? Edited February 9, 2014 by Stun