Civilian weapons vs Weapons of War in towns -- rapiers vs armor?

[Gavinfoxx]

One thing that bugs me is that you see (for example) Rapiers used against armor...

 

Which always bugs the hell out of me! They are not good for that! Estocs are, rapiers aren't.

 

 

What I would like to see is a clarification of what weapons are civilian weapons and what weapons are military... ie, military weapons are useful in battle and when people are wearing some form of armor. Civilian weapons, because they *aren't* useful against (say) the armored Town Guard, can be worn for civilian self defense. And people wearing large amounts of armor would get stopped in town by guards who are like, 'Who are you planning on murdering, bub?'

 

If you want a rapier-looking weapon for use in war, use a cut-and-thrust sword. Rapiers and Smallswords, despite being piercing weapons, are terrible against armor...

 

But I would like to see people having a particular 'walk around town' kit, due to legal restrictions, for at least some towns... only light chain that can be hidden under shirts, non-military swords, whatever clubs you can find, no helms, civilian swords, etc.

[Fearabbit]

Hah, basically I have the same problem but I look at it from a different perspective: Why is everyone wearing plate armor and heavy chainmail all the time?! It doesn't make any sense and my rapier is useless against that (even though it should be even more useless than it is in most RPGs, as you have mentioned).

 

I mean, daggers don't have any special "if you attack from behind I'm super powerful" functionality. They were used because you didn't need more than that (and because you could conceal them easily). People just... they never wore armor.

 

But I know I'm fighting against windmills here. People want their war gear, their clunky plate armor and their morning stars, even when they're not in a war scenario.

[Lephys]

Hah, basically I have the same problem but I look at it from a different perspective: Why is everyone wearing plate armor and heavy chainmail all the time?! It doesn't make any sense and my rapier is useless against that (even though it should be even more useless than it is in most RPGs, as you have mentioned).

 

I mean, daggers don't have any special "if you attack from behind I'm super powerful" functionality. They were used because you didn't need more than that (and because you could conceal them easily). People just... they never wore armor.

 

But I know I'm fighting against windmills here. People want their war gear, their clunky plate armor and their morning stars, even when they're not in a war scenario.

 

You've got a perfectly reasonable point, and I think that maybe some degree of realism in this respect could be a good thing. But, at the same time, 100% realism would just be boring versus the alternative. Maybe in a fantasy world, in which mythical (to us in reality) creatures and such can attack a village at any time (instead of just other invading armies, which always take a human amount of time, and can be more easily scouted and prepared for), traveling adventurers just leave their armor on most of the time. Maybe they take it off at camp when they're not on-watch. And, since we'll have a camping/resting aspect in the game, maybe they really do.

 

The point is, it's good to allow for some exaggerations, or we'd obviously have bathroom breaks, and people would get the cold, and you'd have to keep handkerchiefs in good supply or they'd suffer from sniffles (-1 to hit) for a week, etc. So, I don't think sacrificing realism purely for the coolness of armor and equipment aesthetics, BUT, I think we should consider both, as well as the detriments that come with certain degrees of realism.

 

To clarify, I think some form of "only partial/lesser equipment inside town walls" would be a pretty cool idea and could work just fine. But it would still probably be a little abstracted. You wouldn't want that literally anywhere there were people, purely because that's how it would probably be in real life. But maybe one or more towns/cities in P:E will require peace-tying weapons (which could lead to interesting story occurrences) and removing full-armor inside the walls. *shrug*

Edited January 13, 2013 by Lephys

[Gavinfoxx]

There are daggers that are meant to pierce full plate armor. They are Rondels. They generally work after you get the knight on the ground and you and three buddies have grappled him, to go through the joints...

[TRX850]

There are daggers that are meant to pierce full plate armor. They are Rondels. They generally work after you get the knight on the ground and you and three buddies have grappled him, to go through the joints...

 

Like ants bringing down a rhinoceros beetle. It lacks chivalry, but it's effective.

[Lephys]

There are daggers that are meant to pierce full plate armor. They are Rondels. They generally work after you get the knight on the ground and you and three buddies have grappled him, to go through the joints...

 

Like ants bringing down a rhinoceros beetle. It lacks chivalry, but it's effective.

 

Haha. I think he was just a point about why daggers were commonly carried instead of 2-handed claymores. I doubt he meant that there is no dagger that was ever designed to be more effective at something than any other dagger. That is interesting to know, about rondels, though. I've heard of them, but never knew what exactly made them different.