Corruption and Redemption

[anubite]

(dark side path for Brianna mod)

 

Viconia, Bastila, and a few others, are notable for their alignment shifts. I think we had a topic on this before, but I felt like making another just in-case a certain Obsidian employee missed it.

 

In a game where souls will be a large mechanic, I'd like to see corruption/redemption play a role? Certainly, party alignment is a tricky mechanic. On one hand, in BG2, nearly everybody kept their reputation at 18 so they could conduct trade at the highest rate while pleasing all of their evil/neutral characters (going 19+ would make them leave).

 

I'd like to see this mechanic expanded upon and made deeper, where you can corrupt/redeem some companions so that they tolerate higher levels of "goodliness" or "badliness" and are less prone to leaving when you maintain a high or low reputation. I'd also like to see a stronger purpose for reputation overall - there isn't really any point in having a low reputation in BG2, everybody refuses to do business with you.

 

I think corruption/redemption worked really well in KOTOR2 because everyone sort of became you "student" which was a nice twist. I'd like to see a large student/master relationship of some kind between a companion character and your PC.

 

A character like Nalia in BG2 had a lot of potential for such a role, with her being extremely optimistic and naive. She grew a little in BG2, but didn't have the kind of arc you might wish for - where her optimism grows into something more mature, or whether it gets twisted and makes Nalia into some kind of jaded tyrant or noblewoman.

 

Of course, having some 'immutable' characters is also fine, but having alignment shifts for many party members does invite some interesting roleplay aspect.

 

Or even, well, it would be rather cool if one of your party members presented a chance for redemption or corruption. I liked Neeshka as she sort of presented this mischevious character who might tempt you a good natured character to get carried away with themselves. It might also be interesting to have a pious companion trying to convert the PC to their religion, trying to become their guardian if they are more devilish in nature, or somesuch. Anyway, I think the dynamic is simple and effect, would like to see it in the game if possible.

[DreamDancer]

Yes, that's indeed what I'd love to see in the game. Judging from their past games where companions even went for each others throat it is probably safe to assume that they will have a rather sophisticated companion mechanic that allows for shifts in personality and also gives them room to grow as a person.

 

While I hope there won't be any of that simplistic nonsense in place that is the Alignment system of DnD, I do hope we will get companions with believable backgrounds and agendas, that try to tempt, persuade and manipulate other members of the party, the PC included of course.

 

Also, the themes of corruption and especially redemption, are among the strongest from a storytelling point of view, so it would be great if they were featured in the game in some way or form.

[Frisk]

As I mentioned in a similar thread on changing companion alignment, I would love to see the companions have a different degree of...let's call it "moral flexibility".

 

Some of them might be flexible and come over to your world view - adopt your ethics - perhaps reluctantly, but they would develop to accept and support your typical actions.

 

However, others might be more stubborn, and unwilling to budge - if you continue to behave in a way that is unacceptable to them, they might get angry and leave, attack or betray you. Alternatively they might argue with you - try to get you to adopt their view of life.

 

More importantly, there should not be a single "reputation" scale (like in BG), only reputations for the various "factions" - some companions should not care one but how good/bad your reputation is with some factions, but be VERY sensitive towards your reputation with others.

[JFSOCC]

I think Visas is probably my favourite NPC companion character of any game so far. Although Mira was pretty interesting too. I think that Morrigan in Dragon Age was trying to be a combination between Visas and Kreia.

 

I would enjoy it if you get offered the chance of redemption when you may not have realised you did something wrong in the first place. have all your deeds up to that point seen from a different perspective. I dunno.

As for redemption from an obvious evil... pass. cliché doesn't begin to describe it.

[Heresiarch]

I pray that for once we have an RPG that does not follow good vs. bad dichotomy. Since "bad" is not only subjective in many instances (I won't delve on it too much, but if you look at the non-lethal approach in Dishonored, for instance, I would say that it is much, much more evil than murdering those poor bastards), but also boils down to kicking the dog most of the time. So you end up with a normal "good-guy" approach and a stupid-evil one.

 

There is a crapload of normative ethical theories out there, so you can easily envision an approach to morality different from the one we have in contemporary society. How about using a utilitarian approach? Some kind of strict deontology? Virtue ethics, which quite popular in middle ages, by the way? Ethical egoism?

 

Speaking of the latter, I would love to see something similar to the way Kreia teaches dark side in KOTOR 2. If you go out of your way to help everyone you see, people will rely too much on help of others and won't be able to take care of themselves in a selfish society. Her theory made a great deal of sense and actually drove my character to the dark side. And I would really love to see more stuff like this.

[anubite]

Good/evil might be "relative" but faction relationship isn't. Reputation isn't. And many people have narrow modes of thought. Expanding or changing those views can be construed as corruption or redemption. I'm not trying to imply a biblical system of morality or some kind of karmic force system. You don't need such mechanical things to basically "invert" a person - to spin them on their head, which is what I'm implying with redemption/corruption - it's fun to interact with a character one way, then for them to change so drastically in relation to what they were - and for that relationship to persist, and not be broken off because you suddenly need to kill them or something.

[forgottenlor]

Say what else you want about Dragon Age: Origins, but your companions were less good/evil than in a lot of other games. I did like the moral ambiguity of those characters. Everyone has their good sides and their demons, and situations can bring out one or the other. So it would be nice to see complex characters who can be influenced (redeemed maybe to strong of a word) by the main character's decisions.

I have to admit though, that I did not like Mask of the Betrayer, where after every dialogue you were allowed to see your influence total, and that you got some sort of mechanical benefit for racking up points this way. I much preferred the system in Balder's gate 2, where you were led through a number of conversations which would end some way or the other. It made characters like Jaheira much more interesing and your relationship with her much more complicated.