It's a Kind of Magic

[SanguineAngel]

Hamstringing your party by leaving a class out is entirely up to quest design.

 

Forcing your way through everything without a Rogue should be an option. But in order to make the Rogue a class that deserves to exist, their skills must have a significant impact on the options available to you.

 

So to me the main thing is that all 3 archetypes have an equal purpose in the game, even if spellcasters are my preferred class. Playing a mage who has a spell for everything is a bit boring.

 

Overcoming obstacles is what games are about and it can't be too simple. Say there's a locked door you have to go through..

 

1) Your mage has an open lock spell, you cast it and go through. Wasn't really an obstacle at all.

2) Your mage has no Rogue friends. But you can smash the door into splinters with telekinetic force. This will alert the guards and might affect your reputation if you are seen or leave survivors.

3) Your mage has a mind control spell and there's a person with a key. You can force him to open the door for you, but he will remember this and you have to deal with a morally complex choice whether to kill him or not.

 

To me, options 2 and 3 are exponentially more interesting than option 1.

 

Okay, yep, I see where you're coming from there. Covering all bases with every class would be boring and tedious. But in order to make each class useful I'd suggest some overlap. A fighter may not be a thief but I am sure (s)he might well be quite athletically capable. Likewise a thief is not a fighter but can no doubt be quite scary and intimidating in his or her own right. Likewise, a mage is not a thief, but access to magic undoubtedly means they can probably get into a place.

 

You are right, it will undoubtedly come down to quest design. It will be on the devs to anticipate the classes that will be tackling the given problems and providing the opportunities to make use of them. Now I know it takes quite a bit of thought to consider all these options, but the devs of a cRPG are part DM and so really, this is part of their job.

 

My original post actually suggested teleporting past a door. Though I guess a sort of immaterial phasing through would work equally as well. Give him something new with its own drawbacks to express his versatility.

 

My point wasn't combat, it's that he doesn't need to take the Thief's schtick. It's okay to overlap with the warrior's approach to doors because that's the warrior's compromise, not one of his defining features.

 

Sorry, yes I realise you weren't actually approaching it from a combat perspective, just attempting explain why it might seem that way.

 

Anyway, as above, I think some overlap would be good - even on some key apsects of another class's role. So that, whatever your party you will always be able to tackle a situation in a variety of ways (even if playing solo). But not so much an overlap that you make a class redundant. I would like to see not really class dependant solutions but skill and attribute based solutions. Certain classes will then have the advantage without eliminating the possibility of others contributing, whilst class specific skills will provide unique class opportunities

[Naril]

I love this. Purely offensive magic is boring. It's the magic 'outside' of combat that truly makes it wonderful.

 

Being able to threaten people with it, put on displays (or not), Use it in unconventional ways. Just being able to interact with the world with it when not in combat, as if it was a significant part of who and what you are....that is what truly makes or breaks a magic system.

[eimatshya]

I'm all for giving mages opportunities to use their spells outside of combat. And many of the things suggested are not unprecedented. In the KotOR games you could use the force to "force persuade" people during dialogues, and in Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines you could use the Dominate discipline, and I think also Dementation, during dialogues. In Arcanum you could use fireballs to blast open doors and windows. And I'm pretty sure there was a Knock spell to open doors in the Baldur's Gate games. Including these options and expanding upon them with some of the other suggestions that have been made would make being a mage much more immersive: you wouldn't be inexplicably unable to use magic outside of combat.

[The Dark One Avoozl]

And really. We don't have to limit these ideas to wizards. Lets say I have chosen a priest. I'm in this village that is threatened by a necromancer. Necromancer is all like:

"Muahahahahahaha! I control this village. What are you going to do against my army of the undead! You and your measly group stand no chance! Muahahahahahahahaha!"

 

Priest steps forward "Yeah well... *cough* Prayer: Turn Undead."

 

*Zombie army walks away. Necromancer is left standing alone*

 

Necromancer: O_o "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF"

 

 

Little stuff like this. Or a village is disease ridden. Don't know the source. And even if it's story wise not even possible to heal it without some special cure (for a quest or something), at least an option to try it with your divine magic would be a nice touch to acknowledge your class. "Your healing spell failed to cure the poor child you will have to look for antidote atop Mount Doom but at least now the kid is sleeping peacefully and has a far less pained expression on his face."

 

Acknowledgement that your class has special powers and not leaving you with the thought you sometimes get "Hey wait a second. I have tons of healing magic why am I not allowed to use it? I could have saved this guy!!"