Libyan claims of civilian casuaalties exaggerated?

[Walsingham]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...by-exposed.html

 

Although I'd be astonished if we haven't killed any civilians in the raids, and that's genuinely sad, these show managed affairs are rather fun.

[Humodour]

It's almost sad how few entities, agents, people, states, and bodies in general are willing to support the brutal Libyan dictatorship.

 

What's also interesting is how the Libyan Rebels will view China and Russia once they've gained full control of the country (which will happen, but is a few months away, and the true bloodshed is left to come once Gaddafi releases his cadre of armed young loyalists - read terrorists - on the population of Tripoli as his parting gift).

 

Recall China and Russia spoke out against aiding the rebels and abstained from the fight. Although Russia seems to be rapidily changing its tune.

 

Also interesting is the high rate of senior-level defections in the Gaddafi regime. If this continues (and heck, those NATO air raids aren't going to stop) the regime may crumble a lot sooner than people expect.

[Walsingham]

China might well want to see the situation resolved, as they are heavily dependant on oi limports from the Gulf. Much surplus tanker tanker traffic, and even some chartered traffic has switched between the Far East and Europe thanks to disruption in Libyan exports. But I don't see them wanting to control the country, since transporting from there would be very complex and inefficient. Much better for them to plough into somewhere like Yemen, and establish a dominant interest there. Safeguard their oil transit.

 

Russia doesn't have to do anything in Libya besides let us **** it sideways, and they reap the reward in the form of increased oil and gas prices.

[Malcador]

NATO still conducting this waste of resources ?

[Zoraptor]

They have to, France and Britain have bet the entire organisation's credibility on success. They pretty much have to do anything and everything to win now.

 

Propaganda is as propaganda does. Not like NATO doesn't use it, they just get an acritical reception- how often have they used the "we only killed terrorists today" [..] "can't comment now, we're investigating that incident two days ago" [..] "well, maybe we actually did kill some civilians a few weeks ago, hope Lady Gaga or Pippa's posterior didn't distract you in the meantime"; and it works every time.

[Humodour]

Perhaps, Zoraptor, but NATO is just a wee bit different to the Gaddafi dictatorship (and the propaganda released by NATO is on a whole different, less retarded and certainly far less evil level to that of the Gaddafi regime). Let me enumerate some of the differences between NATO and the Gaddafi regime:

 

1) NATO seeks to avoid and certainly minimise civillian casualties - Gaddafi doesn't give a damn, and in fact is currently trying to starve multiple towns to death (not all of them rebel-held, but I guess he sees them as potential threats down the line) by cutting off supplies like water lines,

2) NATO is trying to free the Libyan people (with the support of the Libyan people) - the Gaddafi regime has a long and current history of brutality, state-sanctioned domestic and international terrorism, human rights breaches and now war crimes against its populace

3) People accept that there are innocent casualties in war. It's horrible, but if you're going to sit there telling me the alternative - sitting back and watching this bastard **** Gaddafi continue his reign of terror and state sanctioned murders, rapes and tortures - is superior, then that worries me somewhat. Not that you have done that.

 

Libyans may live on the other side of the globe, but that doesn't make them any less real people than you or I here in Oceania - they have hopes, children, careers, and feel pain like you or I. And they deserve and want to be treated with basic human decency like you or I.

 

Perhaps a bit of a condescending rant given your post was limited to cynicism about NATO propaganda, but I did not at all like the intimation that NATO is as bad as the Gaddafi regime.