Football

[Malcador]

Was impressed by Almunia. Kinda funny, that's two boneheaded actions that have cost Arsenal dearly in two tournaments. Tomorrow watch somebody get confused and shoot at the wrong net to kick them out of the FA, heh.

[213374U]

The issue remains the absence of any political will within Spain to clean up. Just last month we saw Prime Minister Zapatero unequivically claim there was no way disgraced Tour de France champion Alberto Contador would have doped, in spite of any evidence or lack thereof. Spain is in the middle of a sporting golden era and woe betide any politician willing to prick that swelling bubble of national pride.

Yeah, I wouldn't put any stock on what that clown says - the man is pretty much a political corpse even in his own party, thankfully, and watching him would be comical were it not for the fact that he's the president. Political will has very little to do with it, there's a bunch of stuff related to the march 2004 Madrid attacks which for some reason Zapatero's government has no interest in investigating but the judiciary is nonetheless carrying the case forward.

 

From what's been made available, it looks like Fuentes has been talking tough and threatening to disclose big names he could have been involved with since 2006... never to act on those threats. Call me na

[Humanoid]

The issue remains the absence of any political will within Spain to clean up. Just last month we saw Prime Minister Zapatero unequivically claim there was no way disgraced Tour de France champion Alberto Contador would have doped, in spite of any evidence or lack thereof. Spain is in the middle of a sporting golden era and woe betide any politician willing to prick that swelling bubble of national pride.

Yeah, I wouldn't put any stock on what that clown says - the man is pretty much a political corpse even in his own party, thankfully, and watching him would be comical were it not for the fact that he's the president. Political will has very little to do with it, there's a bunch of stuff related to the march 2004 Madrid attacks which for some reason Zapatero's government has no interest in investigating but the judiciary is nonetheless carrying the case forward.

 

From what's been made available, it looks like Fuentes has been talking tough and threatening to disclose big names he could have been involved with since 2006... never to act on those threats. Call me na

Edited March 15, 2011 by Humanoid

[213374U]

And if you think the lack of positives is unusual, consider this - La Liga dope testing policy (original Spanish here, I have copied the translated summarised points from a native speaker), with my notes in italic.

 

- In the Spanish First Division, only 2 games per day have antidoping tests. These are decided by drawing lots before the season even starts. Odds on the schedule is readily available to the top clubs at the very least, making it trivial to avoid positives

- Games that are played on Saturday have no tests. I don't know how matches are typically scheduled, but I believe most matches are on Saturdays?

- In every game, 2 players per team are tested.

- The players to be tested are decided by drawing lots. After the second half of the game starts, the players that have to be tested are informed "so that they don't urinate after the game and are able to pass the control faster" Advance notice always compromises the integrity of any testing, player could then fake an injury to avoid the test perhaps. Maybe even being substituted would buy enough time to mask/dilute the substances ingested.

- Urine tests only. No test for HGH, blood transfusions, or EPO (although technically testable via urine, this is not done by any of the contracted labs)

Fortunately, I am a native Spanish speaker, and there are some inexactitudes in what you posted.

 

- Draws are in fact secret, and carried out under the supervision of a notary. If there was any evidence that clubs have access to this it would be a major scandal and would possibly land a bunch of people in jail.

- It's not 2 games per day that are tested, it's 2 games per league "working day". Much as the Premier League, Spanish League working days have games distributed between saturday and sunday, and the system has one game from each day be tested.

- Players aren't warned, only coaches and team delegates. Players are notified after the game is over.

- Exclusive urine testing is standard practice in the French, German and English football leagues.

 

 

So in summary, the testing regime is very easily gamed - if not by foreknowledge, by the sheer predictability (and rarity) of the tests. HGH for example is not detectable after 2-3 days. Take it mid-week and you are guaranteed to never test positive (though as mentioned above, they don't even test for HGH anyway).

No, it's only so if we accept suspicions and innuendo as proof. Odds of actually being caught are low indeed, but the system is not designed to be easy to sidestep as you suggest.

 

 

As for damage to reputation - I don't see the likes of Edgar Davids, Frank de Boer, Jaap Stam and indeed Pep Guardiola being made pariahs. Indeed most have been quite successful in continuing to be involved in the game.

Yes, but in those cases, there were actual trials in which they were acquitted. There is no such thing for what you (and some media outlets) are doing which is basically fling poo and make baseless accusations. There is no way of fixing that because there was never any actual evidence to discuss - not that this little fact matters much to some people.

 

 

EDIT: As it happens, right after writing up the previous post I have a look at today's news. Fortuitous timing perhaps, but it looks like there's some sort of powerplay going on. Sounds like Real Madrid, in a bout of hypocracy, is more or less accusing their rivals of doping.

It doesn't look like Madrid is actually doing anything - all there is is what some sports radio journalist says he understood, and now he's backing down. No official statement from Real from what I've gathered.

 

At any rate, I don't see how asking for better refs and more stringent doping controls would be hypocritical, unless they have been proven in the past to be guilty of these conducts. If they ask for that, it's hypocritical. If they don't, they are taking advantage of a system that's easy to game. What would be an acceptable way for them to proceed then?

[Humanoid]

It's a fair position - as I stated at the very beginning it's personal that I feel the evidence is strong enough to form an opinion. Obviously everyone has a reasonable threshold and this was never going to be enough to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law. It is simply a combination of an incomplete number of confirmed facts, circumstantial evidence, and observation about the nature of professional sport and the inherent conflict of interest of each and every sport's governing body being a beneficiary of the commercial success of the very sport they are supposed to police.

 

I don't think professional sports can even begin to be cleaned up until there is 100% independence between bodies like FIFA, the ATP/WTA, the UCI, the IAAF, etc; and the disciplinary body which oversees testing. Naturally this would require much more funding to WADA than what is currently available, and no small amount of political will. I'm not confident it will happen in my lifetime, if ever, but those are the stakes. In the end, when even legends like Gary Player believe that over half of all golf professionals are doping, no professional sport can, with a straight face, claim to be clean.

 

So in the end, yes, I'm firmly of the belief that a clear and absolute majority of all professional sportspeople (and a significant proportion of amateurs) are on the juice. I don't ask anyone to follow me on that assertion, but that's not the interesting part of any discussion anyway. What I do like to discuss is what information out there can be gathered and investigated independently, against the commercial interests trying to sweep it all under the rug.

 

 

 

Footnote: It's probably significant that all the major doping busts in memory have come as a result of police/federak action independent of sporting authorities, such as the Festina affair and the Marion Jones/BALCO case. Next on the chopping block is self-styled hero Lance Armstrong who is being pursued by multiple US federal agencies for fraud. I don't know if he'll end up in jail or even end up with a criminal conviction, but it's good to see all the same that some are still committed to doing their jobs instead of posturing and worse, being complicit in systematic cheating.

[213374U]

Nice turnabout by Inter, but I don't think the knockout result really reflects what went on on the field. Eto'o was probably the most defining player, and he's pretty deadly when he and Sneijder are online, but I was generally more impressed by Robben's usual speed and technique. The referee was pretty much spot-on too which seems to be something worth remarking on these days.

 

All in all, a much more interesting match to watch than Barcelona v Arsenal.