Critical Strike Combination

[Kontaktmann]

I have recently tried combining a one-handed light saber (critical range 19-20) with a keen effect (doubling the critical range to 17-20) and the Critical Strike series, which at level 3 is supposed to quadruple your crit-range.

The idea was that 4 x 4 = 16 = 80% probability of criticals, which would nearly double my damage output (as opposed to the +20% from the Flurry series or the even smaller advantage from the power attack).

Unfortunately I didn't get half as many criticals as I hoped for. Is the ability broken or does it simply not work with weapons that already have their critical range improved?

[Karl the Unfettered]

I believe the usual rule is that effects and abilities which increase critical rates don't stack.

[Lord Elvewyn]

I believe the usual rule is that effects and abilities which increase critical rates don't stack.

 

Agreed. And grump grump, using Keen + threat range x2 parts in your lightsaber doesn't get you a double bonus

 

The way it works, as I understand it is:

Lightsaber - Criticals 19-20

Keen/Threat Range x2 - Critical Range x2

Critical Strike x2-x4 - Critical Range x2-x4

 

So ... critical range 2 (19-20) x (1 (Keen) + 4 (Critical Strike) = Critical Range of 11-20 (if Master Critical Strike) and Shien style gives you +1 critical multiplier.

 

In short, roughly every 2nd swing should do triple damage - Ouch!

[Kontaktmann]

Agreed. And grump grump, using Keen + threat range x2 parts in your lightsaber doesn't get you a double bonus

 

The way it works, as I understand it is:

Lightsaber - Criticals 19-20

Keen/Threat Range x2 - Critical Range x2

Critical Strike x2-x4 - Critical Range x2-x4

 

So ... critical range 2 (19-20) x (1 (Keen) + 4 (Critical Strike) = Critical Range of 11-20 (if Master Critical Strike) and Shien style gives you +1 critical multiplier.

 

In short, roughly every 2nd swing should do triple damage - Ouch!

Of course, considering you actually have 4 attacks if you're playing for damage (2 swords, Master Speed), and only one would be with Critical Strike, Critical Strike itself would still only be roughly as useful as Flurry (2 attacks for 4 times damage and 4 attacks are about the same). When you calculate what you lost in terms of damage by choosing keen upgrades vs what you win with the 20% probability of 3fold criticals on the other 3 attacks, I guess the styles are about even?

[Kontaktmann]

Thinking about which is better (more hits for less damage or less hits for more damage) I got to the point of shields. How many enemies use them (or Energy Resistance or stuff like that) in KotOR 2? I can't seem to remember any.

[Karl the Unfettered]

The mercs at the main camp on Telos' surface used shields. Made for a very rough fight, let me tell you.

[Lord Elvewyn]

Of course, considering you actually have 4 attacks if you're playing for damage (2 swords, Master Speed), and only one would be with Critical Strike, Critical Strike itself would still only be roughly as useful as Flurry (2 attacks for 4 times damage and 4 attacks are about the same). When you calculate what you lost in terms of damage by choosing keen upgrades vs what you win with the 20% probability of 3fold criticals on the other 3 attacks, I guess the styles are about even?

 

Ah no I believe Critical Strike affects all your attacks, certainly the penalty affects you for an entire attack round and it would be incredibly lame if the benefit didn't also. Flurry provides you with 25%-200% more attack capability (depends if single\dual weld+Master Speed) without penalty. If CS only impacted on the first strike then you'd have a 25%-50% chance of doing 100% more damage per attack which would be majorly underwhelming especially given the DEF-5 drop. It's supposed to affect all attacks. Hmm according to Gamespot - KotOR II you're supposed to be able to get 80% criticals. Maybe they goofed? Flurry gives you an additional two attacks (not one) if you solo weld. My preference is for CS myself. Sniper Shot's the ranged equivalent and again I prefer that. Hmm not sure if Rapid Shot gives 2 additional attacks all the time or only single weapons, something to check. Anyone know?

[Kontaktmann]

Ah no I believe Critical Strike affects all your attacks, certainly the penalty affects you for an entire attack round and it would be incredibly lame if the benefit didn't also. Flurry provides you with 25%-200% more attack capability (depends if single\dual weld+Master Speed) without penalty. If CS only impacted on the first strike then you'd have a 25%-50% chance of doing 100% more damage per attack which would be majorly underwhelming especially given the DEF-5 drop.

Hey, don't look at CS. If my theory is true and the bonus only works for one strike, the real loser is Power Attack.

And remember that this is an RPG, not an MMO. The developers of these abilities (Bioware) also made fighter abilities for Baldur's Gate II, and believe me, they are not equal.

(But that's hardly on topic, as it doesn't answer any question)

 

Hmm not sure if Rapid Shot gives 2 additional attacks all the time or only single weapons, something to check. Anyone know?

I know that I prefer to give Mandalore a Mandalorian Heavy Repeater and I'm pretty sure I never see more than 2 attacks. Don't know about pistols, as I make people dualwield if they can.

 

Okay, post-testing (cheated some more XP to my final save to explore the previously unlearned feats, also some constitution to survive a game where Kraya can do 350 damage criticals):

Critical Strike:

Two attacks connected. No critical hits (though that doesn't say anything), but Kraya had to roll against con exactly once - not twice.

A second test with Master Speed gave me 2 criticals, on the rolls of 17, and 13. So I guess you're right. The Crit Range modifier applies to the whole round.

Rapid Shot (one pistol): 2 attacks (and no hits, but no surprise there)

Flurry (one lightsaber):

2 attacks.

 

Edit: For anyone wondering: Yes, I used the Master version of each of these feats. I simply shortened their names because I couldn't be bothered...

Edited November 23, 2010 by Kontaktmann

[Lord Elvewyn]

RPG not an MMO? Given I've never played an MMO I'm not quite sure what you're getting at unless you're suggesting some skills are deliberately unbalanced in non-MMO's?

 

I'm wondering if the GameSpot info's based on an early version of KotOR II. I thought Flurry\Rapid Shot provided one extra attack, which is what the results seem to show.

 

 

Ah no I believe Critical Strike affects all your attacks, certainly the penalty affects you for an entire attack round and it would be incredibly lame if the benefit didn't also. Flurry provides you with 25%-200% more attack capability (depends if single\dual weld+Master Speed) without penalty. If CS only impacted on the first strike then you'd have a 25%-50% chance of doing 100% more damage per attack which would be majorly underwhelming especially given the DEF-5 drop.

Hey, don't look at CS. If my theory is true and the bonus only works for one strike, the real loser is Power Attack.

And remember that this is an RPG, not an MMO. The developers of these abilities (Bioware) also made fighter abilities for Baldur's Gate II, and believe me, they are not equal.

(But that's hardly on topic, as it doesn't answer any question)

 

Hmm not sure if Rapid Shot gives 2 additional attacks all the time or only single weapons, something to check. Anyone know?

I know that I prefer to give Mandalore a Mandalorian Heavy Repeater and I'm pretty sure I never see more than 2 attacks. Don't know about pistols, as I make people dualwield if they can.

 

Okay, post-testing (cheated some more XP to my final save to explore the previously unlearned feats, also some constitution to survive a game where Kraya can do 350 damage criticals):

Critical Strike:

Two attacks connected. No critical hits (though that doesn't say anything), but Kraya had to roll against con exactly once - not twice.

A second test with Master Speed gave me 2 criticals, on the rolls of 17, and 13. So I guess you're right. The Crit Range modifier applies to the whole round.

Rapid Shot (one pistol): 2 attacks (and no hits, but no surprise there)

Flurry (one lightsaber):

2 attacks.

 

Edit: For anyone wondering: Yes, I used the Master version of each of these feats. I simply shortened their names because I couldn't be bothered...

[Kontaktmann]

RPG not an MMO? Given I've never played an MMO I'm not quite sure what you're getting at unless you're suggesting some skills are deliberately unbalanced in non-MMO's?

Not exactly. The point is simply that in an MMO"RPG" balance is vitally important. When people notice after a patch that a certain class in WoW is suddenly able to defeat (most of) the others with ease, then you will not see a lot of the other classes around. Competition dictates that only the most powerful has any right to exist.

In contrast, in a real RPG you will most likely have some builds that are more powerful than others. People will still choose the weaker classes because they are roleplaying and there are more things besides effectivity in combat. I even remember a rule my DM told me once: "The more powerful your build is, the more roleplaying I'll expect from you." [This on the subject of elves, who in that particular game were naturally superior at everything]

[kingofsquid]

Hey, what does Keen do, anyway?

[Lord Elvewyn]

Hey, what does Keen do, anyway?

 

Keen=Critical Threat Range x2