Terrorists

[Walsingham]

If you were killed for your convictions then what a better way to go?

 

Time for YOU to join the Army, fellah. We'll show you how to die for freedom.

[alanschu]

Thanks for being dismissive about my beleifs.

 

Unless you'd be okay with people telling you that someone died for your sins and you're going to go to Heaven after you die, there was really no need for you telling other people that they were going to be reincarnated.

[Meshugger]

numberman's avatar + post.

 

Jesuuus

[TheHarlequin]

If you were killed for your convictions then what a better way to go?

 

Time for YOU to join the Army, fellah. We'll show you how to die for freedom.

 

Already did thanks long ago. Did my bit for king and country. And you don't have to be in the army to be a patriot either. Thats a very narrow view point IMO. And those ppl over their are not dying for MY freedom. they are dying for a. A mistake by the bush admin on how they handled it as now its a quagmire/total cluster frag (afgan) and 2. oil (iraq). Whats more accurate is our military are dying for the afgan and iraq freedoms. Not mine. THAT's what they are dying for. They are not protecting my 'freedoms' directly. I am half a world away and don't think the arse clowns in a cave are very threatening to my 'freedoms' at all. We got our revenge, bombed the taliban into the stone age and disbanded them. Mission done, stop nation building and come home.

[TheHarlequin]

> But what really bothers me is that the State already has the means to do that sort of thing, with a reasonable degree of accountability. The chief argument adduced to support these initiatives is one of efficiency. So what I can't help but wonder is, the only way to improve efficiency is giving the State carte blanche to spy on people? Really?

 

Exactly my point.

 

> Er, it's a movie (an overly pretentious one at that), not a BBC documentary.

 

And I said as much so..? Like I said as well it was a movie but it made IMO a valid point through the fluff and fiction. Or did I imagine bush used and exploited fear to get some of his policies though that infringed civil liberties? The movie simply took it one step further. I said slippery slope, nothing more or less. and if you can't realisticly envision what bush did being taken further then you simply have no grasp of history. We have been down that road already.

 

> Of course that may require that you step down from the moral high ground you are so fond of and actually look at issues and people as they are instead of placing tags on everything and everyone and working from prejudice and mantras. I seriously doubt that everyone but you and yours is such a coward.

 

I simply expressed my opinion and viewpoint. I don't fear death if its for a good cause. *shrugs* Please don't take your insecurities of the topic out on me, thanks.

 

> And no, it's not your (or anyone else's) beliefs I'm dismissive about. It's attempts to use arguments from Faith to justify or condemn this or that policy that rile me. Because, you know, that's exactly what that infallible douche in Rome does.

 

Someone asked me about dying. Again I expressed what I felt. Next time I'll lie and say yes im cowering in the corner afraid of the big bad terrorists will kill me, perhaps with you next to me. Better?

[alanschu]

Someone asked me about dying.

 

Who asked you about dying?

[213374U]

numberman's avatar + post.

 

Jesuuus

Battle Pope is the only Pope I respect.

 

"When he's not leading mass, he's out kicking ass"

 

 

And I said as much so..? Like I said as well it was a movie but it made IMO a valid point through the fluff and fiction. Or did I imagine bush used and exploited fear to get some of his policies though that infringed civil liberties? The movie simply took it one step further. I said slippery slope, nothing more or less. and if you can't realisticly envision what bush did being taken further then you simply have no grasp of history. We have been down that road already.

You said it's a slippery slope, but failed repeatedly to show how it is actually so. And then, for extra comedy, you accuse me of not having a grasp of history, when in fact it's you who, clearly, has no idea what he's talking about.

 

Read up on how Hitler turned the Weimar Republic into a totalitarian state, and then show me where the analogies lie between W's policies and Hitler's Enabling Act and Reichstag Decree. And the RSHA and the dept of Homeland Security. And the FBI and the Gestapo. Or perhaps you'd like to substantiate your frankly mad theories using the good ol' Soviet Union as a starting point? Because, you see, that's the stuff we're talking about when discussing where that slippery slope of yours would lead.

 

 

I simply expressed my opinion and viewpoint. I don't fear death if its for a good cause. *shrugs* Please don't take your insecurities of the topic out on me, thanks.

Your lame e-psychiatry doesn't work on me, bub. Next time try an actual argument instead of an appeal to emotion based on prefabricated tags and fearmongering. Funny, because that's exactly what you accuse others of. Much like with that Pope business.

 

Guess it isn't me who's in need of some e-psychiatry.

 

 

Someone asked me about dying. Again I expressed what I felt. Next time I'll lie and say yes im cowering in the corner afraid of the big bad terrorists will kill me, perhaps with you next to me. Better?

Nobody asked you anything. You felt like rubbing your wiccan/neo-pagan/druidic beliefs (you're so cool!) in our faces, and used the chance to deflect a valid point (yes, sometimes even Hades makes those). Care to try again? Edited November 19, 2009 by 213374U

[TheHarlequin]

You said it's a slippery slope, but failed repeatedly to show how it is actually so.

 

If you really understood or were as educated as you think you are you'd be able to fill in the blanks. I didn't think I'd need to hand hold you. Sorry I over estimated your grasp of the topic.

 

However let me break it down for you. Funny, you even used Hitler as a example, and what are the first few steps he used to dismatle the existing govt when he took power? What happened to the roman republic? What happened during WW2 to asian americans? And what did bush do? Those are all examples of a govt using fear tactics to justify stripping away civil liberties or/and some level of democracy in the name of saftey or/and protecting you from the current big bad of the day. It all started with small events but few folks resisted or were complacient out of fear or short sightedness and thus it snowballed*. Thats my point.

 

Everything else you posted was just fluff and clearly just me hitting a nerve with you. You'll get over it.

 

*Of course there were other factors in all those examples I gave but this isn't a thesis nor do they take away from the basic point I am making.

Edited November 19, 2009 by TheHarlequin

[TheHarlequin]

Someone asked me about dying.

 

Who asked you about dying?

 

Looking back, asked wasn't the proper word to use.

[213374U]

If you really understood or were as educated as you think you are you'd be able to fill in the blanks. I didn't think I'd need to hand hold you. Sorry I over estimated your grasp of the topic.

 

However let me break it down for you. Funny, you even used Hitler as a example, and what are the first few steps he used to dismatle the existing govt when he took power? What happened to the roman republic? What happened during WW2 to asian americans? And what did bush do? Those are all examples of a govt using fear tactics to justify stripping away civil liberties or/and some level of democracy in the name of saftey or/and protecting you from the current big bad of the day. It all started with small events but few folks resisted or were complacient out of fear or short sightedness and thus it snowballed*. Thats my point.

 

Everything else you posted was just fluff and clearly just me hitting a nerve with you. You'll get over it.

 

*Of course there were other factors in all those examples I gave but this isn't a thesis nor do they take away from the basic point I am making.

Hit a nerve? You must be new here. That's just how I am, what with my chronic allergy to bull**** and all.

 

Now, for the "substance" in your post. The key measures Hitler took to dismantle the Weimar Republic are precisely what I mentioned: the Reichstag Fire Decree and the 1933 Enabling Act, nullifying popular, media and communist opposition, and investing Hitler with legislative power, respectively. The "closest" Dubya ever went to that is USAPATRIOT which, while controversial, was passed by an overwhelming majority (and reauthorized in 2005 and 2006). Further, parts of it were found to be unconstitutional, and had to be struck from the law - which indicates that the system is working as intended, and safe from from turning into an Orwellian nightmare. Care to explain where those obvious parallels are?

 

The fall of the Roman Republic was the result of a centuries-long power struggle between the optimates and the populares, which culminated in a civil war due to the Senate's fear of Julius Caesar and their (and Pompeius') inability to deal with him or find a solution otherwise. Again, I fail to see where the parallels are.

 

The bottom line is, the only slippery slope present here is the fallacy in your arguments.

 

You're right, I'm probably not as knowledgeable on the matter as I think, but at least I'm basing my arguments on real historical events, as opposed to pop culture and new age religioun claptrap. I don't know man, but if anyone's posting fluff and squirming when presented with concrete details, it sure as **** ain't me.

[alanschu]

I vaguely remember rage quitting a discussion with numbers regarding pirated DVDs in London or some **** like that

[Walsingham]

I've had more than a few barneys with Numbers in the past but I take exception to you labelling him non-intellectual. If anything the bastard is too intellectual.