Mike the Pacifist

[Nepenthe]

Nah, I think that it should be balance between the two. Otherwise the amount of ventilation ducts and stuff becomes just ridiculous. Sometimes the use of (non-lethal) force should be necessary.

Have you played Blood Money?

 

Yes. It's already been a couple of weeks, so I can't remember much.

 

All jokes aside, I did think it was somewhat forgettable, even if it was better than the third one.

 

Good points about not necessarily needing air ducts, but I think that if you repeatedly hit high-security targets, you occasionally need to take out a guy or two rather than magically find a way to circumvent all of them

[lasthearth]

I don't expect it be to magical. It should be hard. A challenge. You have to really puzzle your way around how to go about it without killing people.

 

And I'd have no problem with certain objectives where it is impossible. Where if you want to not kill people you have to skip it. That's what choices should be about.

[213374U]

Yes. It's already been a couple of weeks, so I can't remember much.

 

All jokes aside, I did think it was somewhat forgettable, even if it was better than the third one.

 

Good points about not necessarily needing air ducts, but I think that if you repeatedly hit high-security targets, you occasionally need to take out a guy or two rather than magically find a way to circumvent all of them

My point was that BM shows that it's possible to design an infiltration-focused gameplay where not killing anyone is not only possible, but can actually be more rewarding than going in guns blazing. No vent ducts whatsoever. And no magic either, aside from insta-changing clothes and enemies not being suspicious that some bald dude with a barcode in the back of his skull, that they've never seen before, is now the latest member of their security outfit.

 

I have no idea how real world ops are conducted, but I'm inclined to believe that producing corpses is very messy and risky, and therefore, to be avoided whenever possible.

Edited August 17, 2009 by 213374U

[alanschu]

some bald dude with a barcode in the back of his skull, that they've never seen before, is now the latest member of their security outfit.

 

I always did enjoy that

[mingoran]

Good points about not necessarily needing air ducts, but I think that if you repeatedly hit high-security targets, you occasionally need to take out a guy or two rather than magically find a way to circumvent all of them

 

If you are the best stealth/hacker dude, there is always a way to avoid combat. One or two guys who need to be disabled shouldn't be an issue, but my mind will always wonder if it wouldn't be possible to give the player a clever puzzle to avoid going into combat, for the ultimate XBOX achievement.

[Nepenthe]

Yes. It's already been a couple of weeks, so I can't remember much.

 

All jokes aside, I did think it was somewhat forgettable, even if it was better than the third one.

 

Good points about not necessarily needing air ducts, but I think that if you repeatedly hit high-security targets, you occasionally need to take out a guy or two rather than magically find a way to circumvent all of them

My point was that BM shows that it's possible to design an infiltration-focused gameplay where not killing anyone is not only possible, but can actually be more rewarding than going in guns blazing. No vent ducts whatsoever. And no magic either, aside from insta-changing clothes and enemies not being suspicious that some bald dude with a barcode in the back of his skull, that they've never seen before, is now the latest member of their security outfit.

 

I have no idea how real world ops are conducted, but I'm inclined to believe that producing corpses is very messy and risky, and therefore, to be avoided whenever possible.

 

I'm fairly sure that even Blood Money requires you to knock out one of those guards every now and then to get access to his uniform. There isn't one conveniently lying around in EVERY mission.

 

Not really disagreeing with you, mind, just bringing out some different viewpoints (occupational hazard)

[Humodour]

You can kill almost anyone in the game, really, including pretty much every major character.

 

It's interesting how Obsidian managed to take this path and Bioware will go great lenghts to make most of the characters immortal. Writers, like David Gaider, probably want to keep most of the characters alive as killing 'em would make his job harder. I liked how BG2 allowed most of the characters to be killed but Mr.Gaider thinks it's not worth the extra work. This issue would probably make a great discussion panel at the Game Developers Conference.

 

Kudos for taking the different path Obsidian!

 

**** yes it's worth the extra work. Glad Obsidian didn't cop out on this like Bioware often does.