Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO: Ideas and Discussion Part 1

[Cliandin]

Guess I will throw in my 2 cents.

 

First, I remember when WoW was being developed and I remember everyone I knew hated the idea. Yet it is a wildly popular game (and extremely profitable). I assure you if there were postings about WoW during development the attitude would have been similar.

 

Second, there is to be 350 years between KotOR2 and this MMO. That allows for plenty of time (some 10+ generations) for anything to happen between KotOR2 and the MMO.

 

Third, I have played WoW and KotOR and KotOR2. It is really unlikely the main target audience for the MMO are fans of KotOR and KotOR2; if they are the main audience the game will fail. KotOR and KotOR2 are so far from real time play of MMOs most hard-core KotOR and KotOR2 fans will be lost in the difference.

 

Fourth, I would rather BioWare have the MMO, because it will leave Obsidian with the KotOR3 project, and honestly Obsidian did a much better job. I bought KotOR because I thought KotOR2 was so good, and was disappointed; even now I think the interface and variations KotOR2 has is great 3 years after I bought the game.

 

Ok, now everyone can disagree with me, but I think the MMO will likely be great. Yes, from what I have seen on the site its graphics look goofy and that may kill the game before it starts, but I will likely buy it and try it out anyway. But, I am still going to hold my breath for a KotOR3 from Obsidian (just hope they take a bit more time with the final parts of the plot this time around).

K3 won't be developed at least not until the MMO is completly played out. And heres why

 

Yes the TOR will be taking place 300 years after the Kotor games, but on a galactic scale 300 years is probably just enough time to rebuild after 2 devestating wars in which the Jedi Order was wiped out, the jedi repository of knowledge was wiped out when a dark jedi detonated a cluster of stars near by. Mandalorian and Sith forces attacked corescant, an entire species was wiped off the face of Yavin four. Now the Jedi Order in particular is the problem because 10 generations is enough that you could have a population that is capable of contributing in a sizable way in a war effort, before that? not so much. Add to that the fact that games practically HAVE to have a conflict that is on the galactic scale or has galactic implications, and you get a republic that couldn't hold off a swarm of mosquitos much less an army of Sith. those 10 generations practically have to be used to return the galaxy to "normalcy" otherwise you're forcing the Sith to either be over powered when invading and are stopped only by a deus ex machina that has to have a "only works once" tag attached to it, otherwise you couldn't set up for the conflict in the MMO.

 

Point Taken. However; my point that Bioware would be busy with the MMO is that MMOs take constant updating, and will require a large staff to get started and if it is popular, which it likely will be (cause really every fan of MMOs that is a Star Wars fan has been dying a decent Star Wars MMO), will require a large staff devoted to support and upgrade the game. WoW releases updates every few days to every few weeks. I can only imagine how many support issues they deal with daily.

 

Also, as I believe you posted before (could have been someone else) the exile will not likely play a part in the new game or even have an impact that is felt in it. If anything somewhere along the line if you dig long enough they may make mention of an "exile" but not likely. It seems most people would agree that KotOR2 was better with a better storyline than the original (up till they got too rushed). While KotOR2 was a "save the galaxy" type of game it did not impact the Sith, Jedi, or Republic in a detrimental way. It would be easy enough to create a few Sith Lords venturing out that require a Jedi to destroy. This Jedi could easily be form the newly established Jedi Academy. It would be easy for them to set it 10 years past KotOR2 and say the Jedi and Republic are rebuilding, but a "new threat" looms in the distance that must be defeated to protect the republic. Yes, I know we get to be evil if we like, but the story is still directed to protect the republic.

 

After all, lets be real here. This is the Star Wars Galaxy and in the Star Wars Galaxy Luke Skywalker, a half-trained Jedi, creates an academy and rebuilds the Jedi in 1-2 generations, and that after all other Jedi are dead and no one knows they can use the force so he has to find them too. Heck, they already have an academy built and ready to go on Telos. That means they could rebuild and almost destroy the Galaxy 5 or 6 more times before the MMO.

 

Never the less, LA is unlikely to allow production on KotOR3 before the MMO releases, and even then it will be sometime down the line from there (guessing a couple years) before they would allow it. But it would be a smart way for LA to introduce us KotOR Fans to the new animation and give us a taste of new classes they might release.

[Albion72]

Guess I will throw in my 2 cents.

 

First, I remember when WoW was being developed and I remember everyone I knew hated the idea. Yet it is a wildly popular game (and extremely profitable). I assure you if there were postings about WoW during development the attitude would have been similar.

 

Second, there is to be 350 years between KotOR2 and this MMO. That allows for plenty of time (some 10+ generations) for anything to happen between KotOR2 and the MMO.

 

Third, I have played WoW and KotOR and KotOR2. It is really unlikely the main target audience for the MMO are fans of KotOR and KotOR2; if they are the main audience the game will fail. KotOR and KotOR2 are so far from real time play of MMOs most hard-core KotOR and KotOR2 fans will be lost in the difference.

 

Fourth, I would rather BioWare have the MMO, because it will leave Obsidian with the KotOR3 project, and honestly Obsidian did a much better job. I bought KotOR because I thought KotOR2 was so good, and was disappointed; even now I think the interface and variations KotOR2 has is great 3 years after I bought the game.

 

Ok, now everyone can disagree with me, but I think the MMO will likely be great. Yes, from what I have seen on the site its graphics look goofy and that may kill the game before it starts, but I will likely buy it and try it out anyway. But, I am still going to hold my breath for a KotOR3 from Obsidian (just hope they take a bit more time with the final parts of the plot this time around).

K3 won't be developed at least not until the MMO is completly played out. And heres why

 

Yes the TOR will be taking place 300 years after the Kotor games, but on a galactic scale 300 years is probably just enough time to rebuild after 2 devestating wars in which the Jedi Order was wiped out, the jedi repository of knowledge was wiped out when a dark jedi detonated a cluster of stars near by. Mandalorian and Sith forces attacked corescant, an entire species was wiped off the face of Yavin four. Now the Jedi Order in particular is the problem because 10 generations is enough that you could have a population that is capable of contributing in a sizable way in a war effort, before that? not so much. Add to that the fact that games practically HAVE to have a conflict that is on the galactic scale or has galactic implications, and you get a republic that couldn't hold off a swarm of mosquitos much less an army of Sith. those 10 generations practically have to be used to return the galaxy to "normalcy" otherwise you're forcing the Sith to either be over powered when invading and are stopped only by a deus ex machina that has to have a "only works once" tag attached to it, otherwise you couldn't set up for the conflict in the MMO.

 

Point Taken. However; my point that Bioware would be busy with the MMO is that MMOs take constant updating, and will require a large staff to get started and if it is popular, which it likely will be (cause really every fan of MMOs that is a Star Wars fan has been dying a decent Star Wars MMO), will require a large staff devoted to support and upgrade the game. WoW releases updates every few days to every few weeks. I can only imagine how many support issues they deal with daily.

 

Also, as I believe you posted before (could have been someone else) the exile will not likely play a part in the new game or even have an impact that is felt in it. If anything somewhere along the line if you dig long enough they may make mention of an "exile" but not likely. It seems most people would agree that KotOR2 was better with a better storyline than the original (up till they got too rushed). While KotOR2 was a "save the galaxy" type of game it did not impact the Sith, Jedi, or Republic in a detrimental way. It would be easy enough to create a few Sith Lords venturing out that require a Jedi to destroy. This Jedi could easily be form the newly established Jedi Academy. It would be easy for them to set it 10 years past KotOR2 and say the Jedi and Republic are rebuilding, but a "new threat" looms in the distance that must be defeated to protect the republic. Yes, I know we get to be evil if we like, but the story is still directed to protect the republic.

 

After all, lets be real here. This is the Star Wars Galaxy and in the Star Wars Galaxy Luke Skywalker, a half-trained Jedi, creates an academy and rebuilds the Jedi in 1-2 generations, and that after all other Jedi are dead and no one knows they can use the force so he has to find them too. Heck, they already have an academy built and ready to go on Telos. That means they could rebuild and almost destroy the Galaxy 5 or 6 more times before the MMO.

 

Never the less, LA is unlikely to allow production on KotOR3 before the MMO releases, and even then it will be sometime down the line from there (guessing a couple years) before they would allow it. But it would be a smart way for LA to introduce us KotOR Fans to the new animation and give us a taste of new classes they might release.

 

Excellent post. Your reasons stated will probably be why Bioware will not be in charge of KOTOR 3 if said KOTOR 3 is to be put into production. Its either up to Obsidian or some other decent company (can't think of who else would be good at KOTOR games).

 

Of course KOTOR 3 probably won't be a big issue during these times, because the MMO has the spotlight, but I'm confident after much waiting we will get it.

[Calax]

Point Taken. However; my point that Bioware would be busy with the MMO is that MMOs take constant updating, and will require a large staff to get started and if it is popular, which it likely will be (cause really every fan of MMOs that is a Star Wars fan has been dying a decent Star Wars MMO), will require a large staff devoted to support and upgrade the game. WoW releases updates every few days to every few weeks. I can only imagine how many support issues they deal with daily.

I believe that one team (a team is the group within the company that makes the game) is always working on WoW's current release. Blizzard however usually has 2 teams on WoW, one on the Game to fix bugs and release Content (the Zul'Aman and Shattered Sun offensive patch for example) while another one works full time on the expansion.

Also, as I believe you posted before (could have been someone else) the exile will not likely play a part in the new game or even have an impact that is felt in it. If anything somewhere along the line if you dig long enough they may make mention of an "exile" but not likely. It seems most people would agree that KotOR2 was better with a better storyline than the original (up till they got too rushed). While KotOR2 was a "save the galaxy" type of game it did not impact the Sith, Jedi, or Republic in a detrimental way. It would be easy enough to create a few Sith Lords venturing out that require a Jedi to destroy. This Jedi could easily be form the newly established Jedi Academy. It would be easy for them to set it 10 years past KotOR2 and say the Jedi and Republic are rebuilding, but a "new threat" looms in the distance that must be defeated to protect the republic. Yes, I know we get to be evil if we like, but the story is still directed to protect the republic.

to blindly state that the storyline of K2 didn't have a significant impact on the Jedi, Sith, or Republic in any way is... blind. K2 completely wiped out every single Jedi and Sith in the known realms. Also all the tools used to teach jedi were lost in either the preceding wars or in the looting that occured after the Order fell. Luke's Order only started picking up momentum to match that of the old Order RIGHT before the Vong invasion. And the Order that Windu and Yoda were a part of in no way matched the might of the Order pre-sith war. If I read what bioware wants correctly, they want armies to be clashing on planets and the armies will have a fairly good number of Jedi with them. Rather than just one jedi leading the entire force, it'd be more like Geonosis where an army was leading each detachment on the planet. And in a galaxy wide civil war thats alot of Jedi that need to be trained, equipped and taught how to fight.

After all, lets be real here. This is the Star Wars Galaxy and in the Star Wars Galaxy Luke Skywalker, a half-trained Jedi, creates an academy and rebuilds the Jedi in 1-2 generations, and that after all other Jedi are dead and no one knows they can use the force so he has to find them too. Heck, they already have an academy built and ready to go on Telos. That means they could rebuild and almost destroy the Galaxy 5 or 6 more times before the MMO.

Doubtful, like I said in my previous paragraph Bioware wants the Jedi order to be a POWERFUL force to be reckoned with. Not numbering in the hundreds but numbering upwards of 5000. You can't train that many jedi in 40 years, it's practically impossible, and if you keep decimating the galaxy with wars and straining their recourses, the Republic would eventually be overthrown because they keep drawing recourses away from the planets and funneling them into rebuilding the constantly being destroyed navy.

Never the less, LA is unlikely to allow production on KotOR3 before the MMO releases, and even then it will be sometime down the line from there (guessing a couple years) before they would allow it. But it would be a smart way for LA to introduce us KotOR Fans to the new animation and give us a taste of new classes they might release.

LA probably wouldn't introduce a Kotor3 until the MMO cash cow has died, been beaten, squeezed and milked inside out. If they Did introduce a K3 during the MMO or prior to the MMO they'd have to have the team working on K3 either work closely with or be a part of Biowares MMO team. Simply because everything in the game would have to easily dovetail with the MMO to prevent conflicts of what happened. If there was a conflict the MMO would ultimatly be seen as 'cannon' because it draws more money.

[Albion72]

Point Taken. However; my point that Bioware would be busy with the MMO is that MMOs take constant updating, and will require a large staff to get started and if it is popular, which it likely will be (cause really every fan of MMOs that is a Star Wars fan has been dying a decent Star Wars MMO), will require a large staff devoted to support and upgrade the game. WoW releases updates every few days to every few weeks. I can only imagine how many support issues they deal with daily.

I believe that one team (a team is the group within the company that makes the game) is always working on WoW's current release. Blizzard however usually has 2 teams on WoW, one on the Game to fix bugs and release Content (the Zul'Aman and Shattered Sun offensive patch for example) while another one works full time on the expansion.

Also, as I believe you posted before (could have been someone else) the exile will not likely play a part in the new game or even have an impact that is felt in it. If anything somewhere along the line if you dig long enough they may make mention of an "exile" but not likely. It seems most people would agree that KotOR2 was better with a better storyline than the original (up till they got too rushed). While KotOR2 was a "save the galaxy" type of game it did not impact the Sith, Jedi, or Republic in a detrimental way. It would be easy enough to create a few Sith Lords venturing out that require a Jedi to destroy. This Jedi could easily be form the newly established Jedi Academy. It would be easy for them to set it 10 years past KotOR2 and say the Jedi and Republic are rebuilding, but a "new threat" looms in the distance that must be defeated to protect the republic. Yes, I know we get to be evil if we like, but the story is still directed to protect the republic.

to blindly state that the storyline of K2 didn't have a significant impact on the Jedi, Sith, or Republic in any way is... blind. K2 completely wiped out every single Jedi and Sith in the known realms. Also all the tools used to teach jedi were lost in either the preceding wars or in the looting that occured after the Order fell. Luke's Order only started picking up momentum to match that of the old Order RIGHT before the Vong invasion. And the Order that Windu and Yoda were a part of in no way matched the might of the Order pre-sith war. If I read what bioware wants correctly, they want armies to be clashing on planets and the armies will have a fairly good number of Jedi with them. Rather than just one jedi leading the entire force, it'd be more like Geonosis where an army was leading each detachment on the planet. And in a galaxy wide civil war thats alot of Jedi that need to be trained, equipped and taught how to fight.

After all, lets be real here. This is the Star Wars Galaxy and in the Star Wars Galaxy Luke Skywalker, a half-trained Jedi, creates an academy and rebuilds the Jedi in 1-2 generations, and that after all other Jedi are dead and no one knows they can use the force so he has to find them too. Heck, they already have an academy built and ready to go on Telos. That means they could rebuild and almost destroy the Galaxy 5 or 6 more times before the MMO.

Doubtful, like I said in my previous paragraph Bioware wants the Jedi order to be a POWERFUL force to be reckoned with. Not numbering in the hundreds but numbering upwards of 5000. You can't train that many jedi in 40 years, it's practically impossible, and if you keep decimating the galaxy with wars and straining their recourses, the Republic would eventually be overthrown because they keep drawing recourses away from the planets and funneling them into rebuilding the constantly being destroyed navy.

Never the less, LA is unlikely to allow production on KotOR3 before the MMO releases, and even then it will be sometime down the line from there (guessing a couple years) before they would allow it. But it would be a smart way for LA to introduce us KotOR Fans to the new animation and give us a taste of new classes they might release.

LA probably wouldn't introduce a Kotor3 until the MMO cash cow has died, been beaten, squeezed and milked inside out. If they Did introduce a K3 during the MMO or prior to the MMO they'd have to have the team working on K3 either work closely with or be a part of Biowares MMO team. Simply because everything in the game would have to easily dovetail with the MMO to prevent conflicts of what happened. If there was a conflict the MMO would ultimatly be seen as 'cannon' because it draws more money.

 

Thats the way MMOs usually START these days. I've been there for a lot of launches, it usually goes like this.

 

1. People are hyped and buy the game, the first day there are thousands of people.

2. Day 2, the numbers dwindle by nearly half, people are disappointed because the game is missing things promised and it is not polished enough.

3. Rinse and repeat step 2 until there is little population in the game.

 

300 Years is a lot of time to rebuild a very powerful jedi order.

 

You are talking 5-6 lifetimes. (maybe 3 lifetimes if the lifespan is like 100 years for a human considering the technological advances). Regardless, the galaxy is a populous place. And besides Cliandin said that they COULD have attacked the republic 5-6 times, not that they probably did. 300 years of peace means that the armies that are going to be clashing are going to be huge. Think about World War II, Europe was nearly DECIMATED and DESTROYED entirely, today the area is rebuilt and each individual country has a decent military force. That is 60 years.

[Cliandin]

I believe that one team (a team is the group within the company that makes the game) is always working on WoW's current release. Blizzard however usually has 2 teams on WoW, one on the Game to fix bugs and release Content (the Zul'Aman and Shattered Sun offensive patch for example) while another one works full time on the expansion.

I don't pretend to assume to know how BioWare will handle staffing, but logical business practices would say to not overstaff for an expectation of a hit game, but to reel back other projects and use the staff you have in place. That is why I thought BioWare would not have the ability to spearhead KotOR3 for a few years.

to blindly state that the storyline of K2 didn't have a significant impact on the Jedi, Sith, or Republic in any way is... blind. K2 completely wiped out every single Jedi and Sith in the known realms.

I don't know what game you played, but in the version I played four Jedi and two Sith (three if you count Kreia) were killed. Not exactly significant. Also depending on how you play you can end up with four or more Jedi that don't die, plus yourself and the end of the game does not truly determine where the exile goes. In fact Kreia even say she had hoped you (the exile) would follow Revan's path.

Doubtful, like I said in my previous paragraph Bioware wants the Jedi order to be a POWERFUL force to be reckoned with. Not numbering in the hundreds but numbering upwards of 5000. You can't train that many jedi in 40 years, it's practically impossible, and if you keep decimating the galaxy with wars and straining their recourses, the Republic would eventually be overthrown because they keep drawing recourses away from the planets and funneling them into rebuilding the constantly being destroyed navy.

lets look at that idea. KotOR2 occurs about 5 years after KotOR. If a KotOR3 occurred 5 years after KotOR2 how much will that effect an MMO that occurs 290 years later. Do we really think it matters if rebuild starts 295 years or 290 years before the MMO? I see no reason a KotOR3 could not be built off the idea of something happening 5 years later. You can't tell me that all Sith and Jedi were destroyed anyway. Even Kreia says that when one Jedi or Sith is killed another rises to replace it.

LA probably wouldn't introduce a Kotor3 until the MMO cash cow has died, been beaten, squeezed and milked inside out. If they Did introduce a K3 during the MMO or prior to the MMO they'd have to have the team working on K3 either work closely with or be a part of Biowares MMO team. Simply because everything in the game would have to easily dovetail with the MMO to prevent conflicts of what happened. If there was a conflict the MMO would ultimatly be seen as 'cannon' because it draws more money.

From what I have seen of LA from both the movies and books conflicts are not really that much of a concern. Yes they don't want major problems, but many books were written prior to the re-release of A New Hope that talked about Biggs and how he died and LA changed that. Also, as others have noted in these forums, characters designs changed from book to book (even Luke Skywalker). And again I would say you can avoid that conflict by placing KotOR3 near the same time as KotOR2.

[Albion72]

I believe that one team (a team is the group within the company that makes the game) is always working on WoW's current release. Blizzard however usually has 2 teams on WoW, one on the Game to fix bugs and release Content (the Zul'Aman and Shattered Sun offensive patch for example) while another one works full time on the expansion.

I don't pretend to assume to know how BioWare will handle staffing, but logical business practices would say to not overstaff for an expectation of a hit game, but to reel back other projects and use the staff you have in place. That is why I thought BioWare would not have the ability to spearhead KotOR3 for a few years.

to blindly state that the storyline of K2 didn't have a significant impact on the Jedi, Sith, or Republic in any way is... blind. K2 completely wiped out every single Jedi and Sith in the known realms.

I don't know what game you played, but in the version I played four Jedi and two Sith (three if you count Kreia) were killed. Not exactly significant. Also depending on how you play you can end up with four or more Jedi that don't die, plus yourself and the end of the game does not truly determine where the exile goes. In fact Kreia even say she had hoped you (the exile) would follow Revan's path.

Doubtful, like I said in my previous paragraph Bioware wants the Jedi order to be a POWERFUL force to be reckoned with. Not numbering in the hundreds but numbering upwards of 5000. You can't train that many jedi in 40 years, it's practically impossible, and if you keep decimating the galaxy with wars and straining their recourses, the Republic would eventually be overthrown because they keep drawing recourses away from the planets and funneling them into rebuilding the constantly being destroyed navy.

lets look at that idea. KotOR2 occurs about 5 years after KotOR. If a KotOR3 occurred 5 years after KotOR2 how much will that effect an MMO that occurs 290 years later. Do we really think it matters if rebuild starts 295 years or 290 years before the MMO? I see no reason a KotOR3 could not be built off the idea of something happening 5 years later. You can't tell me that all Sith and Jedi were destroyed anyway. Even Kreia says that when one Jedi or Sith is killed another rises to replace it.

LA probably wouldn't introduce a Kotor3 until the MMO cash cow has died, been beaten, squeezed and milked inside out. If they Did introduce a K3 during the MMO or prior to the MMO they'd have to have the team working on K3 either work closely with or be a part of Biowares MMO team. Simply because everything in the game would have to easily dovetail with the MMO to prevent conflicts of what happened. If there was a conflict the MMO would ultimatly be seen as 'cannon' because it draws more money.

From what I have seen of LA from both the movies and books conflicts are not really that much of a concern. Yes they don't want major problems, but many books were written prior to the re-release of A New Hope that talked about Biggs and how he died and LA changed that. Also, as others have noted in these forums, characters designs changed from book to book (even Luke Skywalker). And again I would say you can avoid that conflict by placing KotOR3 near the same time as KotOR2.

 

1. Bioware will probably not be in charge of a possible K3 Project.

 

2. I think he means the events occuring in KOTOR 1-2. The Mandalorian War and Jedi Civil War were responsible for millions if not billions of deaths, which is a significant impact on Star Wars galactic history.

 

3. This is very true. And besides, if Kreia is right, there is a whole empire on the fringes of unknown space, itching to conquer.

 

4. True true. Also, isn't KOTOR 3 supposed to be near KOTOR 2? I mean, wouldn't it have to cover what Revan and (possibly) the Exile do in unknown space?

[Calax]

Thats the way MMOs usually START these days. I've been there for a lot of launches, it usually goes like this.

 

1. People are hyped and buy the game, the first day there are thousands of people.

2. Day 2, the numbers dwindle by nearly half, people are disappointed because the game is missing things promised and it is not polished enough.

3. Rinse and repeat step 2 until there is little population in the game.

 

300 Years is a lot of time to rebuild a very powerful jedi order.

 

You are talking 5-6 lifetimes. (maybe 3 lifetimes if the lifespan is like 100 years for a human considering the technological advances). Regardless, the galaxy is a populous place. And besides Cliandin said that they COULD have attacked the republic 5-6 times, not that they probably did. 300 years of peace means that the armies that are going to be clashing are going to be huge. Think about World War II, Europe was nearly DECIMATED and DESTROYED entirely, today the area is rebuilt and each individual country has a decent military force. That is 60 years.

MMO's almost always require one full development team to stick with them even during launch in order to patch patch patch all the bugs that made it through beta testing (even if it was an open beta of 1000 people, nothing beats the time and effort that an entire player base puts into the game to find the bugs). Bioware has a reputation for having polished games that generally aren't that buggy. I personally doubt that they will go in and make a game with bugs that players can practically roll around in (which is why Age of Conan and Warhammer Age of Reckoning both lost players back to WoW. They were good in their own right but both had bugs everwhere and AoC was singificantly unpolished after you got out of the starting area, while Warhammer's servers were as unstable as a frat boy after downing three kegs). Heres the interesting thing about MMO's. If you have 100k players it's still considered a success because by golly that's a lot of money flowing in per month. My guess is that the population for TOR will be unstable but will have 200k players spread across it's servers, You'd get converts from Galaxies (it's biggest immigration center) and the Kotor fanbase as the original player base.

 

I believe that one team (a team is the group within the company that makes the game) is always working on WoW's current release. Blizzard however usually has 2 teams on WoW, one on the Game to fix bugs and release Content (the Zul'Aman and Shattered Sun offensive patch for example) while another one works full time on the expansion.

I don't pretend to assume to know how BioWare will handle staffing, but logical business practices would say to not overstaff for an expectation of a hit game, but to reel back other projects and use the staff you have in place. That is why I thought BioWare would not have the ability to spearhead KotOR3 for a few years.

Heres the biggest thing, Bioware and LA probably wouldn't want another game being made thats got the same setting, characters, locations, and (maybe) rules system being put on the market as that could make subscriptions drop for a while as people stopped paying the monthly fee a single player version of the same game.

to blindly state that the storyline of K2 didn't have a significant impact on the Jedi, Sith, or Republic in any way is... blind. K2 completely wiped out every single Jedi and Sith in the known realms.

I don't know what game you played, but in the version I played four Jedi and two Sith (three if you count Kreia) were killed. Not exactly significant. Also depending on how you play you can end up with four or more Jedi that don't die, plus yourself and the end of the game does not truly determine where the exile goes. In fact Kreia even say she had hoped you (the exile) would follow Revan's path.

What part of "LAST OF THE JEDI" did you not understand when Kreia hammered that into your head. In the opening crawl it CLEARLY states that "the evil

Sith have spread across the galaxy, hunting down and destroying the remaining Jedi Knights." The only reason they didn't hit the Exile was because he had been cast out of the order and was no longer in touch with the Force (which becomes remedied as soon as he meets Kriea)

Doubtful, like I said in my previous paragraph Bioware wants the Jedi order to be a POWERFUL force to be reckoned with. Not numbering in the hundreds but numbering upwards of 5000. You can't train that many jedi in 40 years, it's practically impossible, and if you keep decimating the galaxy with wars and straining their recourses, the Republic would eventually be overthrown because they keep drawing recourses away from the planets and funneling them into rebuilding the constantly being destroyed navy.

lets look at that idea. KotOR2 occurs about 5 years after KotOR. If a KotOR3 occurred 5 years after KotOR2 how much will that effect an MMO that occurs 290 years later. Do we really think it matters if rebuild starts 295 years or 290 years before the MMO? I see no reason a KotOR3 could not be built off the idea of something happening 5 years later. You can't tell me that all Sith and Jedi were destroyed anyway. Even Kreia says that when one Jedi or Sith is killed another rises to replace it.

If another war or simliar event of destabilization occured in the Republic after another 5 years I don't think that the Population of the republic could realistically think they were going to be safe. Inside 2 generations they seen (if BioWare is to be believed) 1 titanic war that blew up an entire cluster of stars, destroyed some of the greatest Jedi Masters and their favored pupils, demolished the jedi repository of Knowledge on Ossus and culminated in an attack on the capitol, and finially Genocide. Then another war launched by a faction from the previous war that was only stopped when the Jedi order fractured. Finially a Third war that was Brother against brother, and also caused one planet to be bombarded to the point there was no building higher than two stories.

 

it'd be like 3 years after WWII began WWIII happened, and then 10 years after that WWIV occurred. I seriously doubt that the population of Earth would still be willing to fight in WWIV or even WWIII given the events of WWII. G0t0 (the most hated character in KotorII other than Disciple) tells you that the Republic is in a precarious position and could easily loose it's place if 5 planets were destabilized. and 5 years later you want to destabilize the Republic even more. If the republic was really that easy to invade the Senate would have been overthrown or the republic would have fractured beyond repair to the point where Lucas's works would be VERY different.

LA probably wouldn't introduce a Kotor3 until the MMO cash cow has died, been beaten, squeezed and milked inside out. If they Did introduce a K3 during the MMO or prior to the MMO they'd have to have the team working on K3 either work closely with or be a part of Biowares MMO team. Simply because everything in the game would have to easily dovetail with the MMO to prevent conflicts of what happened. If there was a conflict the MMO would ultimatly be seen as 'cannon' because it draws more money.

From what I have seen of LA from both the movies and books conflicts are not really that much of a concern. Yes they don't want major problems, but many books were written prior to the re-release of A New Hope that talked about Biggs and how he died and LA changed that. Also, as others have noted in these forums, characters designs changed from book to book (even Luke Skywalker). And again I would say you can avoid that conflict by placing KotOR3 near the same time as KotOR2.

I have yet to see Biggs Darklighter mentioned in ANY material that is related to a Video game. As to the time frame see my previous paragraph.

[Albion72]

Thats the way MMOs usually START these days. I've been there for a lot of launches, it usually goes like this.

 

1. People are hyped and buy the game, the first day there are thousands of people.

2. Day 2, the numbers dwindle by nearly half, people are disappointed because the game is missing things promised and it is not polished enough.

3. Rinse and repeat step 2 until there is little population in the game.

 

300 Years is a lot of time to rebuild a very powerful jedi order.

 

You are talking 5-6 lifetimes. (maybe 3 lifetimes if the lifespan is like 100 years for a human considering the technological advances). Regardless, the galaxy is a populous place. And besides Cliandin said that they COULD have attacked the republic 5-6 times, not that they probably did. 300 years of peace means that the armies that are going to be clashing are going to be huge. Think about World War II, Europe was nearly DECIMATED and DESTROYED entirely, today the area is rebuilt and each individual country has a decent military force. That is 60 years.

MMO's almost always require one full development team to stick with them even during launch in order to patch patch patch all the bugs that made it through beta testing (even if it was an open beta of 1000 people, nothing beats the time and effort that an entire player base puts into the game to find the bugs). Bioware has a reputation for having polished games that generally aren't that buggy. I personally doubt that they will go in and make a game with bugs that players can practically roll around in (which is why Age of Conan and Warhammer Age of Reckoning both lost players back to WoW. They were good in their own right but both had bugs everwhere and AoC was singificantly unpolished after you got out of the starting area, while Warhammer's servers were as unstable as a frat boy after downing three kegs). Heres the interesting thing about MMO's. If you have 100k players it's still considered a success because by golly that's a lot of money flowing in per month. My guess is that the population for TOR will be unstable but will have 200k players spread across it's servers, You'd get converts from Galaxies (it's biggest immigration center) and the Kotor fanbase as the original player base.

 

I believe that one team (a team is the group within the company that makes the game) is always working on WoW's current release. Blizzard however usually has 2 teams on WoW, one on the Game to fix bugs and release Content (the Zul'Aman and Shattered Sun offensive patch for example) while another one works full time on the expansion.

I don't pretend to assume to know how BioWare will handle staffing, but logical business practices would say to not overstaff for an expectation of a hit game, but to reel back other projects and use the staff you have in place. That is why I thought BioWare would not have the ability to spearhead KotOR3 for a few years.

Heres the biggest thing, Bioware and LA probably wouldn't want another game being made thats got the same setting, characters, locations, and (maybe) rules system being put on the market as that could make subscriptions drop for a while as people stopped paying the monthly fee a single player version of the same game.

to blindly state that the storyline of K2 didn't have a significant impact on the Jedi, Sith, or Republic in any way is... blind. K2 completely wiped out every single Jedi and Sith in the known realms.

I don't know what game you played, but in the version I played four Jedi and two Sith (three if you count Kreia) were killed. Not exactly significant. Also depending on how you play you can end up with four or more Jedi that don't die, plus yourself and the end of the game does not truly determine where the exile goes. In fact Kreia even say she had hoped you (the exile) would follow Revan's path.

What part of "LAST OF THE JEDI" did you not understand when Kreia hammered that into your head. In the opening crawl it CLEARLY states that "the evil

Sith have spread across the galaxy, hunting down and destroying the remaining Jedi Knights." The only reason they didn't hit the Exile was because he had been cast out of the order and was no longer in touch with the Force (which becomes remedied as soon as he meets Kriea)

Doubtful, like I said in my previous paragraph Bioware wants the Jedi order to be a POWERFUL force to be reckoned with. Not numbering in the hundreds but numbering upwards of 5000. You can't train that many jedi in 40 years, it's practically impossible, and if you keep decimating the galaxy with wars and straining their recourses, the Republic would eventually be overthrown because they keep drawing recourses away from the planets and funneling them into rebuilding the constantly being destroyed navy.

lets look at that idea. KotOR2 occurs about 5 years after KotOR. If a KotOR3 occurred 5 years after KotOR2 how much will that effect an MMO that occurs 290 years later. Do we really think it matters if rebuild starts 295 years or 290 years before the MMO? I see no reason a KotOR3 could not be built off the idea of something happening 5 years later. You can't tell me that all Sith and Jedi were destroyed anyway. Even Kreia says that when one Jedi or Sith is killed another rises to replace it.

If another war or simliar event of destabilization occured in the Republic after another 5 years I don't think that the Population of the republic could realistically think they were going to be safe. Inside 2 generations they seen (if BioWare is to be believed) 1 titanic war that blew up an entire cluster of stars, destroyed some of the greatest Jedi Masters and their favored pupils, demolished the jedi repository of Knowledge on Ossus and culminated in an attack on the capitol, and finially Genocide. Then another war launched by a faction from the previous war that was only stopped when the Jedi order fractured. Finially a Third war that was Brother against brother, and also caused one planet to be bombarded to the point there was no building higher than two stories.

 

it'd be like 3 years after WWII began WWIII happened, and then 10 years after that WWIV occurred. I seriously doubt that the population of Earth would still be willing to fight in WWIV or even WWIII given the events of WWII. G0t0 (the most hated character in KotorII other than Disciple) tells you that the Republic is in a precarious position and could easily loose it's place if 5 planets were destabilized. and 5 years later you want to destabilize the Republic even more. If the republic was really that easy to invade the Senate would have been overthrown or the republic would have fractured beyond repair to the point where Lucas's works would be VERY different.

LA probably wouldn't introduce a Kotor3 until the MMO cash cow has died, been beaten, squeezed and milked inside out. If they Did introduce a K3 during the MMO or prior to the MMO they'd have to have the team working on K3 either work closely with or be a part of Biowares MMO team. Simply because everything in the game would have to easily dovetail with the MMO to prevent conflicts of what happened. If there was a conflict the MMO would ultimatly be seen as 'cannon' because it draws more money.

From what I have seen of LA from both the movies and books conflicts are not really that much of a concern. Yes they don't want major problems, but many books were written prior to the re-release of A New Hope that talked about Biggs and how he died and LA changed that. Also, as others have noted in these forums, characters designs changed from book to book (even Luke Skywalker). And again I would say you can avoid that conflict by placing KotOR3 near the same time as KotOR2.

I have yet to see Biggs Darklighter mentioned in ANY material that is related to a Video game. As to the time frame see my previous paragraph.

 

1. I am not sure if Bioware has released an MMO yet, but MMOs are entirely different than Single player games. You HAVE to release a polished single player game. YOU HAVE TO for it to be a success. MMOs though, there are going to be thousands logging into your servers, thousands visiting every area you have created, talking to every NPC, there are thousands and thousands of things that can go wrong before they are actually even found.

 

2. Why is everyone assuming BioWare is the only company that can be put in charge of a possible K3 project? Let BioWare handle the MMO....

 

3. Kreia didn't say you were the last of the jedi. She said the Sith believe you to be the last of the Jedi. Afterall, there are still Jedi out there... You meet them... Vrook, Kavar, Zez Kai-Ell... This is why the Sith hunt you so vigorously, they believe you to be the last Jedi and obstacle their complete and total domination.

 

4. I agree with the World War points, however, we have no canon to say another galactic conflict (known to the republic) was started after KOTOR 2. 300 years is plenty enough time for things to get started again.

[Cliandin]

Heres the biggest thing, Bioware and LA probably wouldn't want another game being made thats got the same setting, characters, locations, and (maybe) rules system being put on the market as that could make subscriptions drop for a while as people stopped paying the monthly fee a single player version of the same game.

 

what part of 300 years later makes the MMO "the same setting, characters, locations"? Also as evidenced by the many threads here the people that play MMOs are different from the people that play stand-alone games. I personally would play both.

 

I have yet to see Biggs Darklighter mentioned in ANY material that is related to a Video game. As to the time frame see my previous paragraph.

 

I said the books versus the movies. I never mentioned the video games in reference to Biggs.

 

1. I am not sure if Bioware has released an MMO yet, but MMOs are entirely different than Single player games. You HAVE to release a polished single player game. YOU HAVE TO for it to be a success. MMOs though, there are going to be thousands logging into your servers, thousands visiting every area you have created, talking to every NPC, there are thousands and thousands of things that can go wrong before they are actually even found.

 

2. Why is everyone assuming BioWare is the only company that can be put in charge of a possible K3 project? Let BioWare handle the MMO....

 

3. Kreia didn't say you were the last of the jedi. She said the Sith believe you to be the last of the Jedi. Afterall, there are still Jedi out there... You meet them... Vrook, Kavar, Zez Kai-Ell... This is why the Sith hunt you so vigorously, they believe you to be the last Jedi and obstacle their complete and total domination.

 

4. I agree with the World War points, however, we have no canon to say another galactic conflict (known to the republic) was started after KOTOR 2. 300 years is plenty enough time for things to get started again.

To your point 2. I think everyone is hoping Obsidian will get KotOR3.

 

To your point 3. Additionally after you visit the Jedi Enclave the 2nd time (once the three Jedi Masters are dead) if you ask Kreia if all the Jedi are dead she says she does not know but she doubts it.

 

To your point 4. As the republic is concerned KotOR2 only involved one small battle that ended quickly at Telos (and of course the lose of Pragus). This would be similar to many of the post Return of the Jedi books that have small battles going on all the time. To have a KotOR3 you do not need to include the republic as a major side.

[Albion72]

Heres the biggest thing, Bioware and LA probably wouldn't want another game being made thats got the same setting, characters, locations, and (maybe) rules system being put on the market as that could make subscriptions drop for a while as people stopped paying the monthly fee a single player version of the same game.

 

what part of 300 years later makes the MMO "the same setting, characters, locations"? Also as evidenced by the many threads here the people that play MMOs are different from the people that play stand-alone games. I personally would play both.

 

I have yet to see Biggs Darklighter mentioned in ANY material that is related to a Video game. As to the time frame see my previous paragraph.

 

I said the books versus the movies. I never mentioned the video games in reference to Biggs.

 

1. I am not sure if Bioware has released an MMO yet, but MMOs are entirely different than Single player games. You HAVE to release a polished single player game. YOU HAVE TO for it to be a success. MMOs though, there are going to be thousands logging into your servers, thousands visiting every area you have created, talking to every NPC, there are thousands and thousands of things that can go wrong before they are actually even found.

 

2. Why is everyone assuming BioWare is the only company that can be put in charge of a possible K3 project? Let BioWare handle the MMO....

 

3. Kreia didn't say you were the last of the jedi. She said the Sith believe you to be the last of the Jedi. Afterall, there are still Jedi out there... You meet them... Vrook, Kavar, Zez Kai-Ell... This is why the Sith hunt you so vigorously, they believe you to be the last Jedi and obstacle their complete and total domination.

 

4. I agree with the World War points, however, we have no canon to say another galactic conflict (known to the republic) was started after KOTOR 2. 300 years is plenty enough time for things to get started again.

To your point 2. I think everyone is hoping Obsidian will get KotOR3.

 

To your point 3. Additionally after you visit the Jedi Enclave the 2nd time (once the three Jedi Masters are dead) if you ask Kreia if all the Jedi are dead she says she does not know but she doubts it.

 

To your point 4. As the republic is concerned KotOR2 only involved one small battle that ended quickly at Telos (and of course the lose of Pragus). This would be similar to many of the post Return of the Jedi books that have small battles going on all the time. To have a KotOR3 you do not need to include the republic as a major side.

 

Exactly, considering that most people want to know about Revan/Exile and what they are doing rather than how the Republic Rebuilds and how they are fighting a thousand little battles all over Republic Space.

[Calax]

Heres the biggest thing, Bioware and LA probably wouldn't want another game being made thats got the same setting, characters, locations, and (maybe) rules system being put on the market as that could make subscriptions drop for a while as people stopped paying the monthly fee a single player version of the same game.

 

what part of 300 years later makes the MMO "the same setting, characters, locations"? Also as evidenced by the many threads here the people that play MMOs are different from the people that play stand-alone games. I personally would play both.

Since the press releases have all been "we're coming back to the Kotor Universe in a BIG way." meaning that the setting and locations would be the same or similar to what had previously been seen in the games. To say that the people who play MMO's and those who play single player are different is to generalize to the point where you could say "the people who listen to boy bands and people who listen to music are different" There are over 10 million people in this wide world who play just ONE mmo. Probably 90% of that number play Single player games.

I have yet to see Biggs Darklighter mentioned in ANY material that is related to a Video game. As to the time frame see my previous paragraph.

 

I said the books versus the movies. I never mentioned the video games in reference to Biggs.

LucasArts has NOTHING to do with the books. Lucasfilm LTD. has control over the franchise as a whole but LucasArts has had 0 to do with what happened to Biggs. Also Bigg's tale wasn't completely told in the films. it was barely touched on by the films and the books tried to flesh him out to varying degrees of success.

1. I am not sure if Bioware has released an MMO yet, but MMOs are entirely different than Single player games. You HAVE to release a polished single player game. YOU HAVE TO for it to be a success. MMOs though, there are going to be thousands logging into your servers, thousands visiting every area you have created, talking to every NPC, there are thousands and thousands of things that can go wrong before they are actually even found.

 

2. Why is everyone assuming BioWare is the only company that can be put in charge of a possible K3 project? Let BioWare handle the MMO....

 

3. Kreia didn't say you were the last of the jedi. She said the Sith believe you to be the last of the Jedi. Afterall, there are still Jedi out there... You meet them... Vrook, Kavar, Zez Kai-Ell... This is why the Sith hunt you so vigorously, they believe you to be the last Jedi and obstacle their complete and total domination.

 

4. I agree with the World War points, however, we have no canon to say another galactic conflict (known to the republic) was started after KOTOR 2. 300 years is plenty enough time for things to get started again.

To your point 2. I think everyone is hoping Obsidian will get KotOR3.

 

To your point 3. Additionally after you visit the Jedi Enclave the 2nd time (once the three Jedi Masters are dead) if you ask Kreia if all the Jedi are dead she says she does not know but she doubts it.

 

To your point 4. As the republic is concerned KotOR2 only involved one small battle that ended quickly at Telos (and of course the lose of Pragus). This would be similar to many of the post Return of the Jedi books that have small battles going on all the time. To have a KotOR3 you do not need to include the republic as a major side.

 

Exactly, considering that most people want to know about Revan/Exile and what they are doing rather than how the Republic Rebuilds and how they are fighting a thousand little battles all over Republic Space.

Ok. Here's the thing. Games are a story telling medium at least in the genre we're playing. Every game that we've seen has had a gigantic climactic final scene (except for games that are designed to be simulators like barbie horse adventure and the Imagine: series for DS) that usually draws the budding war, or full scale galactic apocalypse to a close. For a game writer to go through and put together something like a spy flick or a game that had a very small war or took place in the unknown regions following Revan and Exile's adventures to keep the galactic war out of the picture or to make it so the war didn't affect the Republic. With the spy game you could probably get away with it, but you'd find yourself bored out of your skull because spy flicks move relatively slow compared to most things. Most gamers need to have something that tests their abilities rather than their patience. AS to following the previous protagonists, this would be a logistical nightmare because like I posted before, the creators would have to create, model, and write for, at least 16 different scenarios and create a story that is generic enough in terms of their particulars that the gamer is left unfulfilled by the game. If the game were to be made by anyone other than Bioware, the other dev would be hamstrung by having to talk to bioware about every little bit of the plot as everything that happens in their game would have to be compatable with what happens in TOR. Not only would this mean that the development time would get put several months on the side of uncomfortable, it'd also mean that by the time the blasted thing came out TOR would probably already be out.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Calax

[Albion72]

Heres the biggest thing, Bioware and LA probably wouldn't want another game being made thats got the same setting, characters, locations, and (maybe) rules system being put on the market as that could make subscriptions drop for a while as people stopped paying the monthly fee a single player version of the same game.

 

what part of 300 years later makes the MMO "the same setting, characters, locations"? Also as evidenced by the many threads here the people that play MMOs are different from the people that play stand-alone games. I personally would play both.

Since the press releases have all been "we're coming back to the Kotor Universe in a BIG way." meaning that the setting and locations would be the same or similar to what had previously been seen in the games. To say that the people who play MMO's and those who play single player are different is to generalize to the point where you could say "the people who listen to boy bands and people who listen to music are different" There are over 10 million people in this wide world who play just ONE mmo. Probably 90% of that number play Single player games.

I have yet to see Biggs Darklighter mentioned in ANY material that is related to a Video game. As to the time frame see my previous paragraph.

 

I said the books versus the movies. I never mentioned the video games in reference to Biggs.

LucasArts has NOTHING to do with the books. Lucasfilm LTD. has control over the franchise as a whole but LucasArts has had 0 to do with what happened to Biggs. Also Bigg's tale wasn't completely told in the films. it was barely touched on by the films and the books tried to flesh him out to varying degrees of success.

1. I am not sure if Bioware has released an MMO yet, but MMOs are entirely different than Single player games. You HAVE to release a polished single player game. YOU HAVE TO for it to be a success. MMOs though, there are going to be thousands logging into your servers, thousands visiting every area you have created, talking to every NPC, there are thousands and thousands of things that can go wrong before they are actually even found.

 

2. Why is everyone assuming BioWare is the only company that can be put in charge of a possible K3 project? Let BioWare handle the MMO....

 

3. Kreia didn't say you were the last of the jedi. She said the Sith believe you to be the last of the Jedi. Afterall, there are still Jedi out there... You meet them... Vrook, Kavar, Zez Kai-Ell... This is why the Sith hunt you so vigorously, they believe you to be the last Jedi and obstacle their complete and total domination.

 

4. I agree with the World War points, however, we have no canon to say another galactic conflict (known to the republic) was started after KOTOR 2. 300 years is plenty enough time for things to get started again.

To your point 2. I think everyone is hoping Obsidian will get KotOR3.

 

To your point 3. Additionally after you visit the Jedi Enclave the 2nd time (once the three Jedi Masters are dead) if you ask Kreia if all the Jedi are dead she says she does not know but she doubts it.

 

To your point 4. As the republic is concerned KotOR2 only involved one small battle that ended quickly at Telos (and of course the lose of Pragus). This would be similar to many of the post Return of the Jedi books that have small battles going on all the time. To have a KotOR3 you do not need to include the republic as a major side.

 

Exactly, considering that most people want to know about Revan/Exile and what they are doing rather than how the Republic Rebuilds and how they are fighting a thousand little battles all over Republic Space.

Ok. Here's the thing. Games are a story telling medium at least in the genre we're playing. Every game that we've seen has had a gigantic climactic final scene (except for games that are designed to be simulators like barbie horse adventure and the Imagine: series for DS) that usually draws the budding war, or full scale galactic apocalypse to a close. For a game writer to go through and put together something like a spy flick or a game that had a very small war or took place in the unknown regions following Revan and Exile's adventures to keep the galactic war out of the picture or to make it so the war didn't affect the Republic. With the spy game you could probably get away with it, but you'd find yourself bored out of your skull because spy flicks move relatively slow compared to most things. Most gamers need to have something that tests their abilities rather than their patience. AS to following the previous protagonists, this would be a logistical nightmare because like I posted before, the creators would have to create, model, and write for, at least 16 different scenarios and create a story that is generic enough in terms of their particulars that the gamer is left unfulfilled by the game. If the game were to be made by anyone other than Bioware, the other dev would be hamstrung by having to talk to bioware about every little bit of the plot as everything that happens in their game would have to be compatable with what happens in TOR. Not only would this mean that the development time would get put several months on the side of uncomfortable, it'd also mean that by the time the blasted thing came out TOR would probably already be out.

 

1. What they meant by coming back to the KOTOR universe does not mean same setting (well, the Star Wars galaxy and REPUBLIC space is the same, but thats a given), its that they are coming back thousands of years before the movies. Thats what I believe they mean when they say they are returning to the KOTOR franchise.

 

2. We have no idea how epic what Revan did in the unknown regions is. It could be a HUGE war. We don't have a game, movie, book, or animation to tell us so we don't know.

[Calax]

So you make a game that's supposed to be a sequel to some pretty good games, and then you make it an MMO, and then you just abandon everything familiar about it for no particular reason? That's crazy. One of the great things about WoW (for those who cared about Lore anyway) was being able to run around and find battle sites from the strategy games, or talk to Thrall, Kill Kael'thas, and basically immerse yourself in what you did before as a commander of an army (or detachment in War3's case). Now Star Wars has a much bigger universe than Warcraft but it still would need planets that the players know to draw them in. I would expect Dantooine, Korribon, Kyshyyk, Corellia, Courecant, Nar Shadda, Manaan (performing a job similar to the goblins in WoW) and Tattoine. If they didn't they couldn't call themselves a spiritual sequel to the Knights games.

 

as to 2, I would find it weird that Revan could stumble into a Sith Empire gain enough power and backup to launch a war, and rip the Sith to pieces. I mean the last time an unwelcome visitor entered the Sith empire instead of that person being able to do anything, they were captured and used as tools by Naga Shadow to forcibly unite the armies of the Empire (which had been fighting internally because the previous dark Lord was dead). Revan would probably be captured and the adventures we'd follow would probably be him trying to get OUT of captivity and back to civilization. kinda like escape from Butcher Bay.

[Albion72]

So you make a game that's supposed to be a sequel to some pretty good games, and then you make it an MMO, and then you just abandon everything familiar about it for no particular reason? That's crazy. One of the great things about WoW (for those who cared about Lore anyway) was being able to run around and find battle sites from the strategy games, or talk to Thrall, Kill Kael'thas, and basically immerse yourself in what you did before as a commander of an army (or detachment in War3's case). Now Star Wars has a much bigger universe than Warcraft but it still would need planets that the players know to draw them in. I would expect Dantooine, Korribon, Kyshyyk, Corellia, Courecant, Nar Shadda, Manaan (performing a job similar to the goblins in WoW) and Tattoine. If they didn't they couldn't call themselves a spiritual sequel to the Knights games.

 

as to 2, I would find it weird that Revan could stumble into a Sith Empire gain enough power and backup to launch a war, and rip the Sith to pieces. I mean the last time an unwelcome visitor entered the Sith empire instead of that person being able to do anything, they were captured and used as tools by Naga Shadow to forcibly unite the armies of the Empire (which had been fighting internally because the previous dark Lord was dead). Revan would probably be captured and the adventures we'd follow would probably be him trying to get OUT of captivity and back to civilization. kinda like escape from Butcher Bay.

 

SwTOR is not a sequel. Despite what many may think.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Albion72

[Jediphile]

SwTOR is not a sequel. Despite what many may think.

 

We're making KOTOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and beyond--this game is that big, it's got that much content in it.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Jediphile

[Rosbjerg]

I thought they were simply implying that the content of the MMO would be the equal to KOTOR 3-12.. Since the MMO is (tada) a MMO and not an actual sequel.

[Jediphile]

They specifically say KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 rather than "content that would equal KotOR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7".

 

That doesn't exactly leave much question about the relationship to KotOR...

[Albion72]

They specifically say KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 rather than "content that would equal KotOR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7".

 

That doesn't exactly leave much question about the relationship to KotOR...

 

They are bragging about how much you are going to be able to do in the MMO, not how it is a sequel.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Albion72

[Calax]

They specifically say KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 rather than "content that would equal KotOR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7".

 

That doesn't exactly leave much question about the relationship to KotOR...

 

They are bragging about how much you are going to be able to do in the MMO, not how it is a sequel.

They are saying it IS a sequel.

[Albion72]

They specifically say KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 rather than "content that would equal KotOR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7".

 

That doesn't exactly leave much question about the relationship to KotOR...

 

They are bragging about how much you are going to be able to do in the MMO, not how it is a sequel.

They are saying it IS a sequel.

 

Wrong. The game has nothing to do with K1-K2. The only thing it has to do with K1-K2 is the Sith, but the Sith factor into almost anything Star Wars (unless you are talking about some lone bounty hunter who likes killing people for the Exchange, and then that gets into some cool stories .) If it were a sequel, they would've said something like, "The fantastic ending the KOTOR story! Watch what happens!"

[Calax]

They specifically say KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 rather than "content that would equal KotOR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7".

 

That doesn't exactly leave much question about the relationship to KotOR...

 

They are bragging about how much you are going to be able to do in the MMO, not how it is a sequel.

They are saying it IS a sequel.

 

Wrong. The game has nothing to do with K1-K2. The only thing it has to do with K1-K2 is the Sith, but the Sith factor into almost anything Star Wars (unless you are talking about some lone bounty hunter who likes killing people for the Exchange, and then that gets into some cool stories .) If it were a sequel, they would've said something like, "The fantastic ending the KOTOR story! Watch what happens!"

the think is they are using the events of Kotor1 as a catalyst to get things moving for TOR. They are also going to use everything that Revan did as a catapult to make the story work. Revan will probably be a mythological figure in TOR with every jedi being called "the next Revan" and sith called "the next Sith Lord" Admittedly I hate the fact its going to end up like that, one would think that they'd revere those who fought in the Sith War more than the smaller Mandalorian and Jedi Civil. It does seem like they are taking a page from the great sith war in that Courecant is getting sacked (which did happen in the great sith war)

[Albion72]

They specifically say KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 rather than "content that would equal KotOR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7".

 

That doesn't exactly leave much question about the relationship to KotOR...

 

They are bragging about how much you are going to be able to do in the MMO, not how it is a sequel.

They are saying it IS a sequel.

 

Wrong. The game has nothing to do with K1-K2. The only thing it has to do with K1-K2 is the Sith, but the Sith factor into almost anything Star Wars (unless you are talking about some lone bounty hunter who likes killing people for the Exchange, and then that gets into some cool stories .) If it were a sequel, they would've said something like, "The fantastic ending the KOTOR story! Watch what happens!"

the think is they are using the events of Kotor1 as a catalyst to get things moving for TOR. They are also going to use everything that Revan did as a catapult to make the story work. Revan will probably be a mythological figure in TOR with every jedi being called "the next Revan" and sith called "the next Sith Lord" Admittedly I hate the fact its going to end up like that, one would think that they'd revere those who fought in the Sith War more than the smaller Mandalorian and Jedi Civil. It does seem like they are taking a page from the great sith war in that Courecant is getting sacked (which did happen in the great sith war)

 

I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

[Calax]

I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

Except that you yourself have said that Revan's journey into the unknown was what kept the Sith from attacking for those 300 years. Based on what Bio has said I'm guessing that Revan is going to play a HUGE role in the MMO.

[Albion72]

I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

Except that you yourself have said that Revan's journey into the unknown was what kept the Sith from attacking for those 300 years. Based on what Bio has said I'm guessing that Revan is going to play a HUGE role in the MMO.

 

Yes, I have. BUT, what I stated in the quote that you... quoted... was an assumption. Which means its 50/50 chance it could be correct IF thats how it played out. I have also stated that Revan may NOT have fought the True Sith empire because maybe it was so strong at the time of K2 he simply had to wait for them to attack the Republic (even with Exile's help).

[Calax]

I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

Except that you yourself have said that Revan's journey into the unknown was what kept the Sith from attacking for those 300 years. Based on what Bio has said I'm guessing that Revan is going to play a HUGE role in the MMO.

 

Yes, I have. BUT, what I stated in the quote that you... quoted... was an assumption. Which means its 50/50 chance it could be correct IF thats how it played out. I have also stated that Revan may NOT have fought the True Sith empire because maybe it was so strong at the time of K2 he simply had to wait for them to attack the Republic (even with Exile's help).

Admittedly it would seem impossible for Revan to have an affect on the Sith Empire given that He wanders in there as a paragon of the light side. The best I could see him pulling off would be Sparticus all over again (slave revolt that nearly toppled the roman empire) and this leaves the empire with significant rebuilding to do given their workforce was wiped out and they lost alot of assets putting the revolt down. Again this is just a possible scenario.