Stealth in Alpha Protocool

[themadhatter114]

I guess I'd just like to see the game promoting the use of stealth basically. In to many games it feels like it's *just* a way to bypass the enemies, with no reward on its own. If I sneak through without alerting guards or whatever, then I want to be rewarded for that. Both XP wise and sort of storywise (the game acknowledging it).

 

My simple wish for stealth in AP.

 

Why should you get rewarded XP for being stealthy? If a game takes out the mechanic of giving XP for kills, isn't that enough? I simply don't want the game to push me toward any type of gameplay. I want XP for completing objectives. And I want faction-based incentives depending on how I completed the mission. Killed everyone? Some faction loves that. Talked your way through? Some faction loves that. Didn't alert anyone to your presence? Some other faction loves that.

 

But isn't the avoidance of gunfire enough of a reward, once you remove all the disincentives like all that XP you miss out on in D&D games?

[Starwars]

Well, is there XP for killing people in AP? I don't know, I haven't been following it that much. If there isn't, then that obviously changes things. But I don't like it when games ignore the stealth path (and actually often other paths as well) when compared to the "kill everything that moves" approach.

 

The other stuff you mention is what I want as well. Recognition for how you complete your objectives. I of course don't meant that stealth should be superior so to speak, but if I sneak through something then I want the game to recognize it. In XP as well IF killing everything would grant XP.

[themadhatter114]

Well, is there XP for killing people in AP? I don't know, I haven't been following it that much. If there isn't, then that obviously changes things. But I don't like it when games ignore the stealth path (and actually often other paths as well) when compared to the "kill everything that moves" approach.

 

The other stuff you mention is what I want as well. Recognition for how you complete your objectives. I of course don't meant that stealth should be superior so to speak, but if I sneak through something then I want the game to recognize it. In XP as well IF killing everything would grant XP.

 

Actually, I simply assumed that there wouldn't be XP for kills without realizing that they've not said that anywhere. XP for kills doesn't seem to fit the game. I think in Deus Ex you only got skill points for completing objectives, as in Bloodlines. I thought the XP for kills in Mass Effect was stupid, but really the skills in Mass Effect were all about different ways to kill things, anyhow. I really, really hope we have a Bloodlines/Deus Ex style skill system, but perhaps without escalating costs for increasing skills. I would prefer that the game give incentives to specialize and less incentive to try to become a jack of all trades. You have enough incentive to try to increase every skill without the disincentive to specialize. I'm pretty sure that in Deus Ex that upgrading from Advanced to Master isn't really worth it at all for most of the skills.

 

I absolutely want stealth/combat/persuade to all be fully supported and viable. I'd even love to have non-combat quest solutions that depend on your combat skills (probably would work best with something like an explosives skill that is mainly used throughout the game to set high-powered explosives, but is occasionally used for defusing bombs, and if you don't have a high enough skill, your only option is to get the hell out, leaving some people to die). And from the mention of the "Any Last Words" perk, it sounds like you might get something like huge bonuses to intimidation if you have a reputation for offing people. Which would be awesome. I'd love to have no dialogue skills and merely have success dependent entirely on your reputation (something that I think would have been a lot more fun in Mass Effect...).

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Giving XP for kills pretty much make stealth obsolete, or at least an option no one will take. It pretty much forces the player to go on a murderous rampage instead of sneaking to be able to advance in skills and the like.

 

It might also make immersion less successful.

[themadhatter114]

Giving XP for kills pretty much make stealth obsolete, or at least an option no one will take. It pretty much forces the player to go on a murderous rampage instead of sneaking to be able to advance in skills and the like.

 

It might also make immersion less successful.

 

Which is what annoys me quite a bit about several D&D games where you have a main character. It's ridiculous if I have a stealth character that gets pulled into conversation before major combats. Or avoiding enemies and losing out on XP, etc. It's annoying. However, you could balance something like that by making stealth viable without tons of XP (for example if you could play the entirety of Alpha Protocol as a Splinter Cell game without having to level up any sort of stealth skill). However, considering that you will almost certainly need high skill levels in hacking, electronics, lock-picking, and gadgetry for a fully optimized stealth build.

 

However, I don't expect to be able to avoid combat entirely. I'm sure that some guys that we have to talk to will be held hostage, or have guards of their own. Perhaps we'll be able to sneak into the final room, but then need a silenced chain-shot to take out the guards in the room and talk to the guy before sneaking out the window.

 

Take Fallout, for example, you don't need exorbitant skill levels to complete the main quests, and if you grind for XP, you're likely to miss out on some of the better endings. And if you want to go crazy and kill everything, all those hitpoints and bonuses to hit with your chosen weapon are vital.

 

So I don't see any need to balance the XP gain, so long as you balance the XP gain with the XP need. A stealthy D&D character has to up the hide & move silently skills, or just the move silently skill and get a longer duration for a racial invisibility spell. So in that system you really need to simply balance XP for all playstyles.

[Jaesun]

If more cRPG's did the whole "You get XP for finishing this" like Bloodlines (in that you can a finish a task/quest ANY way you want) would be nice. If AP adopted this, I would be very happy.