Humodour Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Don't they boost the tendencies, not counter them? Nah, in people with ADD/ADHD, dopamine uptake stimulants have the inverse effects to what happens with normal brain chemistry. I was just saying what I'd been told by my various psycologists/psychiatrists. Currently I take Medidate (which has some really nasty side effects in the wrong people, fortunatly I don't get those). and for the record, Ritalin and other stimulants are basically legalized speed. I just don't agree with the claim that people with ADHD will necessarily drift towards substance abuse. Medidate is a cousin of Ritalin. Ritalin is not speed. Dextroamphetamines (like dexamphetamine sulfate and Adderall) are "speed". It's a useless definition, though, since it has a different purpose and effect in people with ADHD, and medical amphetamines aren't cut with drano, or talcum powder or glass filaments to shred the stomach lining for fast absorption. Tarna: Anything which increases dopamine uptake will make you less creative and reduce your ability to hyperfocus to that of normal person. This includes alcohol and caffeine - though the other effects of alcohol certainly provide me with creative insight from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarna Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 [Tarna: Anything which increases dopamine uptake will make you less creative and reduce your ability to hyperfocus to that of normal person. This includes alcohol and caffeine - though the other effects of alcohol certainly provide me with creative insight from time to time. Then I will remain as I am since the alternative is unacceptable. Alcohol moderates the extreme. I will not become less that what I am. Ruminations... When a man has no Future, the Present passes too quickly to be assimilated and only the static Past has value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 [Tarna: Anything which increases dopamine uptake will make you less creative and reduce your ability to hyperfocus to that of normal person. This includes alcohol and caffeine - though the other effects of alcohol certainly provide me with creative insight from time to time. Then I will remain as I am since the alternative is unacceptable. Alcohol moderates the extreme. I will not become less that what I am. I know what you mean. But I think it's about the right dose. I've found that on small doses of dexamphetamines, I can hyper-focus normally, and also concentrate better all around. Anyway amphetamines don't have long-term side-effects (they wear off within 6 hours) and they kick in near-immediately, so it wouldn't hurt to try a small dose for a week or two and see what happens. See your psychiatrist about it? Hmm I'm going to have to find a new one I suppose since my old one was a child psychiatrist and I'm almost 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) That was an interesting read Tarna! Have you ever tried Adderall/Dex rather than Ritalin? I really hate Ritalin because it comes with all sorts of nasty side effects like depression, lack of appetite and nervous ticks - I also stopped it when I was 12, then switched to Dex. Dex is a much more stable drug, IMHO and more consistent in its effects. Adderall will probably have the same lack of appetite. I have that problem when I'm on it. I usually drop weight when I take it regularly. Edited January 2, 2008 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenghuang Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hm, this thread is interesting. I have ADD, I was diagnosed when I was 11. Parents and the docs put me on meds for years, wouldn't let me stop taking them when I decided I'd had enough when I turned 17, so I found instructions to taper myself off on the internet was on some for bipolar disorder as well, in hindsight I have a feeling the ADD meds are what made them think I was bipolar because I really don't have any problems with depression anymore but I still have a pretty upbeat manic disposition. I was able to control myself enough that nobody even knew I'd stopped taking them until I told everyone about six months in. These days the only symptoms I have include asking some kind of off the wall questions and I'm a horrible procrastinator when something doesn't interest me. Last quarter I finished a College Algebra course and most of the coursework for my Defensive Countermeasures class in two days, passed both though, B in the Algebra an A in the other one. Hyperfocus thing helps with that. Sometimes I'll get so absorbed in something I'll forget to sleep or eat. Also caffeine does work on me but it has to be in a ridiculously high dose and even then I crash off it hard within 1-2 hours. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Ok, serious now. i'm used to think about cognitive arousal in the Yerkes-Dodson sense. That everyone has a personal comfort zone. Some are very low and are extreme risk averse, and become anti-scoial librarians. Others are extreme sports risk seekers. My question is, how does ADHD differ from someone who simply has a high optimum arousal threshold? "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) My question is, how does ADHD differ from someone who simply has a high optimum arousal threshold? Because, for an individual to be diagnosed with ADHD, this has to cause a clear maladaptation. Which is often defined by it causing them distress. A person who has simply a high optimum arousal threshold, but operates perfectly fine on a cup of coffee is one thing. A person who has a high optimum arousal threshold and cannot focus on his schoolwork so he starts to fail is another. One is perfectly fine. The other can be a bar to a decent education. Edited January 3, 2008 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 OK. But what I'm saying is, how about I get you, load you up with drum 'n' bass music then send you into a warzone with a double ristretto and a string of firecrackers? Are you going to be fully functional? "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 OK. But what I'm saying is, how about I get you, load you up with drum 'n' bass music then send you into a warzone with a double ristretto and a string of firecrackers? Are you going to be fully functional? I don't even know where to begin to answer that question. Do I point out that I'm not a big fan of drum 'n' bass? Do I ask what a double ristretto is? What is fully functional in regards to a warzone? How does that relate to a more realistic scenario? "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 OK. But what I'm saying is, how about I get you, load you up with drum 'n' bass music then send you into a warzone with a double ristretto and a string of firecrackers? Are you going to be fully functional? I don't even know where to begin to answer that question. Do I point out that I'm not a big fan of drum 'n' bass? Do I ask what a double ristretto is? What is fully functional in regards to a warzone? How does that relate to a more realistic scenario? All good questions. 1. It's interesting that you don't like drum'n'bass. 2. A ristretto is a short espresso. Highly concentrated; like being hit with a sack of coffee beans. Until your nose breaks. 3. Most importantly, by fully functional I mean once at a high level of arousal are you able to engage in lower arousal tasks? A classic high arousal person, once they're firing at the right pitch is quite happy doing 'normal' things. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 OK. But what I'm saying is, how about I get you, load you up with drum 'n' bass music then send you into a warzone with a double ristretto and a string of firecrackers? Are you going to be fully functional? I don't even know where to begin to answer that question. Do I point out that I'm not a big fan of drum 'n' bass? Do I ask what a double ristretto is? What is fully functional in regards to a warzone? How does that relate to a more realistic scenario? All good questions. 1. It's interesting that you don't like drum'n'bass. 2. A ristretto is a short espresso. Highly concentrated; like being hit with a sack of coffee beans. Until your nose breaks. 3. Most importantly, by fully functional I mean once at a high level of arousal are you able to engage in lower arousal tasks? A classic high arousal person, once they're firing at the right pitch is quite happy doing 'normal' things. For many cases of ADHD, the person, "once they're firing at the right pitch" often accomplished via medication (stimulants), is quite capable of doing low arousal activity. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Ok, serious now. i'm used to think about cognitive arousal in the Yerkes-Dodson sense. That everyone has a personal comfort zone. Some are very low and are extreme risk averse, and become anti-scoial librarians. Others are extreme sports risk seekers. My question is, how does ADHD differ from someone who simply has a high optimum arousal threshold? Assuming you're genuinely interested, and not out to liken ADHD to extroversion (but you know better right? ), here's is a summary of a study done on the correlation between dopamine, people with ADHD, and people without ADHD: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70806164505.htm Extroversion and ADHD are not unrelated. Studies have shown dopamine to be the driving force behind extroversion: extroverts require more dopamine to be produced to feel content/calm. The thing is, extroverts are capable of reaching this level of dopamine - people with ADHD aren't. To put it another way: "Most people experience distraction, restlessness, and impulsiveness at one time or another. [...] What distinguishes those with ADD from those who do not have the disorder is the frequency and intensity of these symptoms, as well as the negative impact on one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) OK. But what I'm saying is, how about I get you, load you up with drum 'n' bass music then send you into a warzone with a double ristretto and a string of firecrackers? Are you going to be fully functional? I would prefer some 70s brit prog rock, a nice cup of tea and a helmet. ...high level of arousal... Edited January 3, 2008 by Kaftan Barlast DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarna Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 My question is, how does ADHD differ from someone who simply has a high optimum arousal threshold? Because, for an individual to be diagnosed with ADHD, this has to cause a clear maladaptation. Which is often defined by it causing them distress. A person who has simply a high optimum arousal threshold, but operates perfectly fine on a cup of coffee is one thing. A person who has a high optimum arousal threshold and cannot focus on his schoolwork so he starts to fail is another. One is perfectly fine. The other can be a bar to a decent education. Since I had always assumed that I outgrew my 'hyper-active' phase I don't know how to properly answer your question. In my case, I enjoy 'stressfull' situations as they give me a chance to 'prove my ability to meet the needs' of any problem that life throws my way. You needn't play martial music or hype me up on stimulants. Just make the problem personal and difficult and I'm on it like ugly on an Englishman :wink:. I LIKE problems thrown my way as they mostly prove myself against them. Coasting through life without testing yourself is boring. Surpassing roadblocks in life gives you a 'benchmark' to show the passing of time and your accomplishments. As you get older, the saying "time flies" gains more and more relevance as you become jaded and gain less benchmarks to show the actual passing of time. It is my opinion that we, as humans, need noteworthy events to benchmark time and without those, we simply coast through time toward oblivion. To the young, most of life's experiences are interesting ( providing benchmarks ). To those that grow older, the noteworthy benchmarks become fewer and fewer ( the marriage of our kids, the birth of grandkids, change in a job, et cet ) and time moves faster because we have fewer means to benchmark the passage of years. It is my assumption that this is why I deliberately place myself in 'risky' situations. Working with high voltages ( 480 VAC 3 PH ), playing with high pressure or explosive gases, rock climbing, stuff that can kill you in general. I'm not looking for a rush ( I don't even get worked up until after I've successfully completed my work, if at all ) but rather an excuse to remind myself that I was sufficient to the needs placed before me. Don't know if that helped or not but it gained me another post count ( well actually, being in Off Topic, I guess it didn't :wink: ). Ruminations... When a man has no Future, the Present passes too quickly to be assimilated and only the static Past has value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 My question is, how does ADHD differ from someone who simply has a high optimum arousal threshold? Because, for an individual to be diagnosed with ADHD, this has to cause a clear maladaptation. Which is often defined by it causing them distress. A person who has simply a high optimum arousal threshold, but operates perfectly fine on a cup of coffee is one thing. A person who has a high optimum arousal threshold and cannot focus on his schoolwork so he starts to fail is another. One is perfectly fine. The other can be a bar to a decent education. Since I had always assumed that I outgrew my 'hyper-active' phase I don't know how to properly answer your question. In my case, I enjoy 'stressfull' situations as they give me a chance to 'prove my ability to meet the needs' of any problem that life throws my way. You needn't play martial music or hype me up on stimulants. Just make the problem personal and difficult and I'm on it like ugly on an Englishman :wink:. I LIKE problems thrown my way as they mostly prove myself against them. Coasting through life without testing yourself is boring. Surpassing roadblocks in life gives you a 'benchmark' to show the passing of time and your accomplishments. As you get older, the saying "time flies" gains more and more relevance as you become jaded and gain less benchmarks to show the actual passing of time. It is my opinion that we, as humans, need noteworthy events to benchmark time and without those, we simply coast through time toward oblivion. To the young, most of life's experiences are interesting ( providing benchmarks ). To those that grow older, the noteworthy benchmarks become fewer and fewer ( the marriage of our kids, the birth of grandkids, change in a job, et cet ) and time moves faster because we have fewer means to benchmark the passage of years. It is my assumption that this is why I deliberately place myself in 'risky' situations. Working with high voltages ( 480 VAC 3 PH ), playing with high pressure or explosive gases, rock climbing, stuff that can kill you in general. I'm not looking for a rush ( I don't even get worked up until after I've successfully completed my work, if at all ) but rather an excuse to remind myself that I was sufficient to the needs placed before me. Don't know if that helped or not but it gained me another post count ( well actually, being in Off Topic, I guess it didn't :wink: ). Hah! You sound like me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 EDIT: Actually this got me thinking. In many ways isn't ADHD and autsim simply being a man? i do sometimes think we've feminised our society so much that if you are a man you are diagnosed as having an illness. Its true to some extent. I know that women have been bothered with my lack of attention to my surroundings, but thats just because I walk around like a proper man with my head in the clouds, pondering scientific theories or why Spiderman married Mary Jane and not Felicia Hardy. So true, Answering those important questions brings such revelation to a man.... "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think it's because Peter Parker is afraid to leave Mary Jane for Felicia Hardy, because of her fickle nature that led her to dump him back in the early 80's. If he could be sure that Felicia wouldnt just dump him again(which she wouldnt because she's matured alot since then), then I think he would go with her. It wouldnt be nice to MJ, but she can suit herself for being played by Kirsten Dunst in the movies. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 on that note, the marriage and the unmasking have been retconned away. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 An interesting study on the chemical causes of alcoholism: http://www.physorg.com/news118599284.html Surprise, surprise, dopamine is involved again, though not in a way related to ADHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Assuming you're genuinely interested, and not out to liken ADHD to extroversion (but you know better right? ), here's is a summary of a study done on the correlation between dopamine, people with ADHD, and people without ADHD: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70806164505.htm Extroversion and ADHD are not unrelated. Studies have shown dopamine to be the driving force behind extroversion: extroverts require more dopamine to be produced to feel content/calm. The thing is, extroverts are capable of reaching this level of dopamine - people with ADHD aren't. To put it another way: "Most people experience distraction, restlessness, and impulsiveness at one time or another. [...] What distinguishes those with ADD from those who do not have the disorder is the frequency and intensity of these symptoms, as well as the negative impact on one "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 on that note, the marriage and the unmasking have been retconned away. Spidermans unmasking during Civil War??!! And what marriage? DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 on that note, the marriage and the unmasking have been retconned away. Spidermans unmasking during Civil War??!! And what marriage? he was married to MJ years ago, it got retconned out in the most recent Spidermans (Gail Simone insists Spidey is gay given the fact he removes his marrige to a supermodel in order to get back the crippled old aunt may.) Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 So pretty much half of the people here on these forums have some sort of brain dysfunction? I always suspected as much. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 So pretty much half of the people here on these forums have some sort of brain dysfunction? I always suspected as much. Aye, that'd be the one thing you got me owned on "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Architect Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I'm a narcissist. Does that qualify as a mental deficiency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now