KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion, Part 24

[amomynous]

The Architect,

 

I did forget the Kreia mentioned that Reven had a mother and father, but i don't think that really sets and origin in stone anyway. Kreia could be lying, does not know, or they could be surrogate parents.

 

According to what i read, the true sith existed before the Ajunata pall/ tulak hord/ marka ragnos era of sith. "According to Kreia, the "True Sith" had existed for millennia prior to the rise of the ancient Sith Empire." (From True Sith page on wookieepedia) This coincides with what i wrote in my first post.

 

As for the age thing, from what i have researched, the mandalorian wars took place between 3976-3960 BBY and the Jedi Civil war was between 3959-3956 BBY. Lets assume Reven left for the unknown regions in 3955 BBY. Reven joined the Mandalorian wars after they had started and being that he is a normal human (ie. aging) i figured that at the age of his 20s he could conceivably be ready to take on such a task. Therefore it would likely make reven in his 40s when he left for the unknown regions. So through a little research i have found that reven must have been born in 4000 BBY give or take five years.

 

My first thoughts were that the game can't go into the unknown regions because that would require the team to develop too much star wars canon about what was in the unknown regions. however, after research i realize that there is already a lot in canon talking about what lies within the unknown regions. so therefore i think it would be exciting to venture into this fairly unexplored world.

 

as for the characters you play, i do not think we can play as reven or the exile in kotor 3 (or at least should not) because it would interfere with every single player's idea of who reven is exactly. as a matter of fact, i'm not even sure if we should find reven or the exile. if there is an npc of reven people would complain what he looks like, what his powers are etc. same with the exile. and it wouldn't make the game very interesting if we started out as an immensly powerful jedi who didn't have to worry about building his skills (ie leveling)

 

This is why i think a third character is necessary. I've read various ideas, but very few of them ammount to the same level of story telling that these games have provided. This third character must already have ties to the story somehow. Maybe they were the padawan of somebody important and they never finished their training (they could have trained at the enclave on dantooine or at the sith academy on korriban, not really important but it gives you the lightside/dark side origin choice like you had in kotor 2). possibly your master brought you away from the mandalorian and jedi civil wars becuase he knew what it would do to the galaxy and he trains you as a gray jedi on some remote planet (i think a nod to dagobah would be kind of cool since you could explore the world a little bit more than the movies did). maybe you are even the son/ daughter of bastila and reven and you are off to find what happened to your father. (this would avoid the problem that i have with actually encountering reven as an npc since it's possible he died years before you were ready to begin your search.)

[Magister Lajciak]

what is everybodys opinion on the lucasarts bioware contract ??? do u think it could finnally b kotor 3 or just another let down ??

 

I hope it is KOTOR 3, but I think it will be a let down (KOTOR MMO).

[Magister Lajciak]

To be honest RTwP is IMO only good way to go with lightsaber combat (as crazy as it sounds). TB with action points & all lightsaber combat would be just so... wrong.

 

One might argue RL lightsaber combat is only way to go. However only SW game with real time combat that resembled lightsaber fighting at all is Episode III license game and overall the system sucked horribly. Although MP was somewhat fun.

 

Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy had good combat system, but it didn't represent elegant lightsaber fights of the movies at all. Well, mabe the bouncing Yoda thing but not otherwise...

 

Although a true real-time system might indeed better evoke the feeling of Star Wars lightsaber combat, I would not be thrilled to see that, since I am not terribly dexterous and would thus find the game excessively difficult, perhaps even impossible, to complete.

[Xard]

No, that's exactly the problem. They don't evoke lightsaber combat feeling at all. JA's combat system is superb and great fun, but I want RPG combat to be somewhat elegant and such that resembles the movies.

[amomynous]

I wouldn't mind a fighting system similar to the Prince of Persia games as the agility based combat system would be perfect for jedi. I know a few people that didn't like kotor because they found the combat system too easy. personally, i care much more about the story line and the character building than i do about the actual gameplay.

[Musopticon?]

I don't think a Prince of Persia style four button(left arm, right arm/grab, jump, block) combo system should be implemented into rpgs. Two Thrones is one of my favorite actions games ever, but I think KotOR deserves something more tactical.

[Tale]

No, that's exactly the problem. They don't evoke lightsaber combat feeling at all. JA's combat system is superb and great fun, but I want RPG combat to be somewhat elegant and such that resembles the movies.

edit: Nevermind, after reading both your posts, I think I agree with you on your description. Although not the opinion.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Tale

[amomynous]

I don't think a Prince of Persia style four button(left arm, right arm/grab, jump, block) combo system should be implemented into rpgs. Two Thrones is one of my favorite actions games ever, but I think KotOR deserves something more tactical.

 

That's probably where you and i differ greatly, i thought the two thrones was alright, but nothing compared to the first two, primarily because i thought the story was a huge let down. gameplay is kind of secondary for me.

[Magister Lajciak]

No, that's exactly the problem. They don't evoke lightsaber combat feeling at all. JA's combat system is superb and great fun, but I want RPG combat to be somewhat elegant and such that resembles the movies.

 

Ok, maybe I am missing something. I thought you just stated that "RTwP combat is the only way to go". While I don't know what 'RTwP' stands for, I assumed it stands for real-time combat. And yes, lightsaber action in the movies is fast and thus real-time combat might be better at evoking similar feelings. The need for good coordination and reflexes, however, lessens its appeal for me significantly. I think the semi-real time combat found in the original two KOTOR games is good enough at eliciting the right feeling.

[Xard]

RTwP = real-time with pause. Style found fron NWN's, Kotors and Infinity engine games.

 

Often viewed as horrible bastard child of two styles (for good reasons, actually) but in kotor that's the way to go. And I'm not one of those who think RTwP is automatically inferior to TB (unlike many "tr00" roleplayers) though that tends to be the case.

[Magister Lajciak]

RTwP = real-time with pause. Style found fron NWN's, Kotors and Infinity engine games.

 

Ok, this is the same thing as what I call the quasi-turn-based system. It runs in real-time, but the underlying mechanics determining success are not based on reflexes of the player, but rather on the abilities of the characters.

 

Often viewed as horrible bastard child of two styles (for good reasons, actually) but in kotor that's the way to go. And I'm not one of those who think RTwP is automatically inferior to TB (unlike many "tr00" roleplayers) though that tends to be the case.

 

I like the system. I think it is a great compromise between real-time and turn-based and would indeed like to see KOTOR 3 based on this principle.

[Bass-GameMaster]

JA is a hack and slash game, making KOTOR 3 would utterly destroy the RPG...... MAybe a updated previous one with some new features? And a more in depth story of revan/exile, and of course the threat beyond.

[Magister Lajciak]

JA is a hack and slash game, making KOTOR 3 would utterly destroy the RPG...... MAybe a updated previous one with some new features? And a more in depth story of revan/exile, and of course the threat beyond.

 

What is the JA? Is it just a misspelled acronym of Jade Empire, or is it some other game entirely?

[Xard]

Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

 

Truly great game apart from stupid plot

[Tale]

I couldn't even stand the demo. Lightsaber combat in it was horrible.

[Xard]

Crank up difficulty and it was a blast, especially on later levels. And not easy at all unless you resorted to cheese tactics. Multiplayer was great too.

[Tale]

Cheese tactics? That's the only actual lightsaber tactic that existed in those games. The rest was just crossing your fingers.

[Magister Lajciak]

Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

 

Truly great game apart from stupid plot

 

Thanks!

 

As a matter of interest, though, don't you consider a good plot to be integral to a good game?*

 

*Unless it is a game that relies has a focus on non-story elements, such as simulation (e.g. the SimCity series).

[Musopticon?]

Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

 

Truly great game apart from stupid plot

 

Thanks!

 

As a matter of interest, though, don't you consider a good plot to be integral to a good game?*

 

*Unless it is a game that relies has a focus on non-story elements, such as simulation (e.g. the SimCity series).

How are you supposed to answer that question? You already answered it yourself. Think of such games as Tetris, Quake 2 and for instance Pharaoh. Either there's no story or it's not really the reason why people play.

 

We might argue that plotless games aren't "good games", but kinetic combat or for instance intelligent game design can go a long way in terms of keeping people entertained.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Musopticon?

[Magister Lajciak]

Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

 

Truly great game apart from stupid plot

 

Thanks!

 

As a matter of interest, though, don't you consider a good plot to be integral to a good game?*

 

*Unless it is a game that relies has a focus on non-story elements, such as simulation (e.g. the SimCity series).

How are you supposed to answer that question? You already answered it yourself. Think of such games as Tetris, Quake 2 and for instance Pharaoh. Either there's no story or it's not really the reason why people play.

 

We might argue that plotless games aren't "good games", but kinetic combat or for instance intelligent game design can go a long way in terms of keeping people entertained.

 

Yes, I guess I did answer it myself. The point is, however, that from the brief description I read about it, Jedi Academy seemed like a game where the story is integral, rather than being focused on being a shooter, or strategygame or whatever.

[Xard]

Plot is just bad excuse to let you play with your jedi powers.

 

In singleplayer there was one almost sure win tactic. Steps backwards as enemy starts rushing towards you slashing with his weapons and do "heavy" swing. As they're performing their own attack they can't block it. Usually instakill. Of course that doesn't work in multiplayer at all and not always in singleplayer either

 

Cheese tactics? That's the only actual lightsaber tactic that existed in those games. The rest was just crossing your fingers.

 

no u

[Magister Lajciak]

Plot is just bad excuse to let you play with your jedi powers.

 

I guess I could get behind playing with my jedi powers even without a good plot, but it sure would be nice to have that too.

[Xard]

Previous Jedi Knights (Jedi Knight , JK: Mysteries of the Sith and JKII: Jedi Outcast) had fine plots. Jedi Academy's plot is weak compared to them, but it's just enough reason to get player involved in awesomely designed varying maps

[Bass-GameMaster]

Thanks for claryfying JA I thought everyone here would know it. Ive read my 3rd game informer and at the site of a mention of KOTOR I nearly fell out of my chair. Of course I read it more and theres a 89% of a sequel, and thats good anough for me

[Magister Lajciak]

Previous Jedi Knights (Jedi Knight , JK: Mysteries of the Sith and JKII: Jedi Outcast) had fine plots. Jedi Academy's plot is weak compared to them, but it's just enough reason to get player involved in awesomely designed varying maps

 

I have played JKII: Jedi Outcast. It was a good game, but I did not manage to complete it, because I was not good anough at handling the real-time combat system to pass the final missions.