The Lost Tomb of Jesus...

[Calax]

I'm not giving definite proof, but the fact that there is religion all around the world shows that people recognize there is something more to life than on this earth, but it has sadly been perverted by sin. The verse is saying that when you look at creation, you can see some qualities of God, and that that is enough evidence to make men have no excuse for living in sin.

Or people are just trying to explain that which they were unable to explain before. 90% of religion is based upon the fact that the World was created THIS way and will end THAT way. Also how many genuine Miracles have happened in the past 200 years? Or excorsisms for that matter.

 

Another part of religion is that part of the human psyche almost requires you to think that there is some great beyond that will come and be your security blanket when you get killed or die via natural causes. Heaven, Allahs Promised land, Alesian Fields and so on. Others proclaim that you will always be running around in circles trying to get into heaven and every action has a consequence.

 

The few who don't think there is some great beyond or hell or heaven or their many incarnations generally don't last beyond year 25 becuase they see life as a fruitless struggle before their inevitable death, so why not shorten the journey by a good 70 years.

 

Your proclamation that religions all over the world exsist believeing in a divine being is like saying that everyone likes spagettii because everyone eats. Your god doesn't exsist JUST because people believe, He exists beacuse a certain person believed he did... And used a good publicist to get the word out. Belief in somthing out there doesn't necessairly mean that theres a god, just a capricious biologist who views this planet and its environs as a pitri dish to play in for his science fair project. My guess is that until science is able to prove how the universe was created and will end well enough that it's not shouted out of a church, we won't see the end of religion. However we will in the next few decades see religions power wane because people no longer believe in the abstracts they teach.

 

Anywho, posting while calax is tired isn't generally conducive to my reasoning, so your'll probably have one of the other posters (taks, meta and grommie take particular delight in this) come along and disect my post and take every sliver of supposition and conjecture and turn it on its head until it looks like a dragon break dancing.

[Blank]

I wasn't conclusively saying anything. I was trying to give an example for what the verse was saying. It's certainly not scientific, and I was hardly trying to prove anything to you.

 

Sorry if there was any confusion on that.

 

If it's any consolation, I disagree with Intelligent Design theorists too, because they act like they are presenting science and testable proofs when it's not science at all. That irks me. I mean, I believe that God created everything, but that viewpoint cannot be backed up by science (from what I can tell). They have this idea that because things are complex, that automatically proves God made everything, but that's like stating a hypothesis that isn't testable. And when your main proof is a hypothesis that isn't testable, you are out of the realm of science.

 

Please, if there are ID people here, I want to hear how you think creationism is scientifically backed up. I just don't see it. I have faith in it, but how can it be science?

 

For that matter, I also dispute putting ID in school science classes. It really has no place. Unless you are presenting it in the faux-science section. I did that in 9th grade, went through different "theories" and had to state why they weren't science.

 

As for the heart behind ID, which is obviously creationism, I think that has a place in a class that presents world views. A lot of people believe it, so I think it would be valid to present it in the class... Along with all the other world-views.

Edited March 24, 2007 by Blank

[WITHTEETH]

I'm not giving definite proof, but the fact that there is religion all around the world shows that people recognize there is something more to life than on this earth, but it has sadly been perverted by sin. The verse is saying that when you look at creation, you can see some qualities of God, and that that is enough evidence to make men have no excuse for living in sin.

 

The number of believers don't prove the existence of another realm. In fact the numbers contradict each other due to the various religious beliefs.

 

This is where i don't understand the faith argument: If faith is the answer to your religion, then how come faith is also the answer to a religion that has nothing to do with your special specific one? Everything that Socrates said, Plato wrote so why go with a second rate philosophy like Christianity anyway? Because Christianity has Electrolytes!!!

 

Faith doesn't make you think, it just makes you feel, feel secure. Faith is a jump into an abyss of unreason.

Edited March 24, 2007 by WITHTEETH

[WITHTEETH]

As for the heart behind ID, which is obviously creationism, I think that has a place in a class that presents world views. A lot of people believe it, so I think it would be valid to present it in the class... Along with all the other world-views.

It depends on how they present it i believe. If they teach it as a valid way to live then that would contradict what schools are suppose to do, to make the student think, and i do not believe faith is a way to do that, to think.

 

Now if it was presented in a form of comparative religions, humanities, philosophy, or or holey(irony!!!)text as literature... I don't have a problem.

[Sand]

Intelligent Design is a religious idealogy. Teaching it as a discipline, like science, counts as religious teaching and doctrination. In public schools that counts as a breech of separation of church and state. Only viable teaching, specially when it comes to the origins of the earth and life is one that can be tested by scientific processes. However, as Withteeth states, if taught as a form comparative religions, philosophy, and similar disciplines I would not have a problem of it being taught in public schools.

[Blank]

I'm not giving definite proof, but the fact that there is religion all around the world shows that people recognize there is something more to life than on this earth, but it has sadly been perverted by sin. The verse is saying that when you look at creation, you can see some qualities of God, and that that is enough evidence to make men have no excuse for living in sin.

The number of believers don't prove the existence of another realm. In fact the numbers contradict each other due to the various religious beliefs. ...

If faith is the answer to your religion, then how come faith is also the answer to a religion that has nothing to do with your special specific one?

Like I said, sin corrupts the truth, so you get all these false religions. That's just how I'm explaining it.

Everything that Socrates said, Plato wrote so why go with a second rate philosophy like Christianity anyway? Because Christianity has Electrolytes!!!

A good dose of humour is always welcome. Thanks.

Faith doesn't make you think, it just makes you feel, feel secure. Faith is a jump into an abyss of unreason.

What is wrong with feeling secure and being so unreasonable that your main objective is to help people in this life? Of course, it is dangerous to stop there, because you get the people we call lunatics that are actually just hateful and they try to excuse their actions as if god told them to do what they've done. Which is why I don't stop there. Do you see me being unreasonable other than on this point? Am I killing people? Am I being disruptive in society at all? No, no, no. Hopefully, if I am doing what "my religion" tells me to do, I am being kind, charitable, and loving to everyone.

[taks]

Intelligent Design is a religious idealogy. Teaching it as a discipline, like science, counts as religious teaching and doctrination. In public schools that counts as a breech of separation of church and state. Only viable teaching, specially when it comes to the origins of the earth and life is one that can be tested by scientific processes. However, as Withteeth states, if taught as a form comparative religions, philosophy, and similar disciplines I would not have a problem of it being taught in public schools.

ooops.

i really, really need to read better.

taks

Edited March 24, 2007 by taks

[Sand]

Eh?

[taks]

i started a snarky comment but realized i was totally off-base and withdrew it immediately after i submitted it...

 

taks

[Sand]

Oh, okay. What did you think I posted?

 

 

Blank, I see faith as the unreasonable path of security for the reasonable person. Faith and belief does not require concrete facts of certainty, for it exists as a tangible search for facts that one tries to grasp on the intangible answers of existence.

Edited March 24, 2007 by Sand