Atris to the Handmaiden

[Knights&Darths]

Was Atris manipulated into sending the Handmaiden to travel with the Exile? While the Handmaiden says her mistress sent her - she says that both to the Exile on the Ebon Hawk and to Atris herself when she gets back at the accademy with Kreia - her sisters are told she left on a whim. Do you think Kreia made Atris do that so as to have a way back to the accademy? Atton realizes as much after the gathering on Dantooine but there is still some confusion as to whether or not Atris was actually tricked, when the Handmaiden joins the party Kreia doesn't seem to be pleased, was that an act?

[The Dark Master]

I think it was.

My theory is that Kreia either manipulated Atris into sending the handmaiden away and then made her forget about it, or she manipulated Handmaiden into believing that Atris ordered her to go with the Exile

[Knights&Darths]

Strangely enough when you leave the accademy and the handmaidens ask Atris about their missing sister, that dialog does contain an alternative course in which Atris says:

Atris: I sent her to travel with the exile. She may discover something I cannot.

Handmaiden Sister: Mistress, the last of the Handmaidens - she is willful, and she has demonstrated a... fascination with Jedi. It may not have been w-

Atris: I know what I have done. But it was necessary.

there is no conditional, no faulty script, it's something that was simply dropped, the question is why - maybe the writer wanted to make Kreia's hold over Atris clear from the beginning. It was somewhat confusing though.

[Purgatorio]

I don't think Kriea held Atris from the beginning. As far as I know, Atris was unaware of Kriea's presence on the first visit.

 

Kriea being miffed about Brianna being on the Ebon Hawk might be because of attachments that could form between the Exile and Brianna. Such could cause her to lose influence over the Exile. Which is also apparent in her relations with other crew members.

She doesn't want you to kill her so she can have another pawn in her game of Dejarik (sp?) or whatever is used in that... Atris is not to be trusted and therefor neither should her servant, so Kriea suggests; you use her servant as her master would use you.

 

She knew her mother, so there is the possible force sensitivity, and the problems that can cause; whinny Padawan, and the inconvenient habit of Jedi overcoming insurmountable odds. He training her could weaken her influence.... I said that.

 

Basically Brianna is an unneeded distraction that she will use to her advantage. A rather negative bunch of motivations, but done with finesse, thus making her the most interesting character in the game.

 

I am not of the opinion that Kriea is Brianna's mother.

[Guest The Architect]

I don

Edited January 4, 2007 by The Architect

[Knights&Darths]

I would happily spend hours enunciating why Kreia and Kae are the same person but this is not the right 3d, that coy remark however is known throughout the galaxy. The Handmaiden may be her daughter, if so then Kreia wouldn't want to have her on a dangerous journey, much less want the Exile to bind with her while she planned to either kill the Exile or be killed by him. Then again she wouldn't want her daughter to be exposed to Atris any longer now that she has returned, much less want to leave her on Telos with what was coming to the planet, and indeed she needed the docking codes to get to Atris. So many questions, yet the answers are few.

 

Whatever. I think, all things considered, that alternative course in the dialog I spoke of was part of the remnant of undeveloped dialog that followed the case that the Exile argued with Atris and was told to depart immidiately. I mean:

1. The Exile offers his aid: Atris sends the Handmaiden to travel with the Exile
   
2. The Exile offers a blaster bolt: the Handmaiden defies Atris and depart with the Exile
   

there is more evidence of this in the dialog after the holorecord, an alternative course in which the Handmaiden says she feels Atris misjudges the Exile for his marching to war, that sometimes one must fight and she's willing to do that too against the wishes of her sisters and against Atris'

[Guest The Architect]

I would happily spend hours enunciating why Kreia and Kae are the same person but this is not the right 3d, that coy remark however is known throughout the galaxy. The Handmaiden may be her daughter, if so then Kreia wouldn't want to have her on a dangerous journey, much less want the Exile to bind with her while she planned to either kill the Exile or be killed by him. Then again she wouldn't want her daughter to be exposed to Atris any longer now that she has returned, much less want to leave her on Telos with what was coming to the planet, and indeed she needed the docking codes to get to Atris. So many questions, yet the answers are few.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Those are just suppositions though. Presuming Kreia is Kae, we don't know if she even cared about her daughter or not, and I certainly believe it is not folly to assume that she didn't care if something dangerous happened to her or not.

 

This is Kreia we are talking about, someone who was hell bent on destroying the will of the force, as she believed. It was clear she was prepared to sacrifice many lives in order to achieve her goal.

 

Whatever. I think, all things considered, that alternative course in the dialog I spoke of was part of the remnant of undeveloped dialog that followed the case that the Exile argued with Atris and was told to depart immidiately. I mean:

1. The Exile offers his aid: Atris sends the Handmaiden to travel with the Exile
    
    
   
2. The Exile offers a blaster bolt: the Handmaiden defies Atris and depart with the Exile
   

there is more evidence of this in the dialog after the holorecord, an alternative course in which the Handmaiden says she feels Atris misjudges the Exile for his marching to war, that sometimes one must fight and she's willing to do that too against the wishes of her sisters and against Atris'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Umm...I still don't see how this supports the theory that Kreia manipulated Atris into sending the Handmaiden with the Exile. You have to remember that the Handmaiden does not travel with the female Exile, which if you go by this theory, begs the question of why Kreia would manipulate Atris into sending the Handmaiden with the male Exile, but does not do the same for the female Exile. Why? Perhaps because Kreia had no involvement? There really isn't anything that supports this claim as far as I can tell.

Edited January 4, 2007 by The Architect

[Darth Mortis]

Kreia/Kae; I'm guessing that the cut content has something in here that would let us know if they are one and the same. Still, it is worth noting that there is nothing in the game that indicates that Kreia ever faught in the Mandolorian wars as Kae did.

 

The '....Said to be a skilled warrior....', since Kreia is talking about a Jedi-who are known to be fairly skilled fighters anyway-this could be explained as an indication that Kae was much more skilled than the average Jedi. As to why Kreia wouldn't know this, well Kreia does admit to have been a historian which wouldn't be a job that required her to leave the academy much, if at all, so it wouldn't be unusual if Kreia had never seen Kae fight outside training. (And both would seem to hint that Kreia never faught in the war, again hinting that Kreia and Kae are not the same person).

 

Kreia manipulating Atris creates a problem, in that there is nothing to show or indicate that they ever come face to face while the Exile is on Telos. (And it creates a problem with Atris mentioning she doesn't remember seeing Kreia at the Academy anyway, since Atris was shut in her room apart from the period when she talks to the Exile and Kreia is locked in a force cage). If Kreia managed to manipulate someone at the other end of the academy without being able to see them at the time, then she would have been a hell of a lot more powerful that anyone gave her credit for. My guess is that the alt diolog was scripted, then someone noted it didn't make sense so they changed it but failed to change the text notes so that was what can appear on the screen. I think they could have changed the lines to show that Atris is something of a grey figure who is quite willing to lie even when she doesn't need to. In a film or even a TV show this might have worked better, but in a computer game when it could be months before to go from one cut scene to the next and with nothing to really remind you of that line it just gets missed.

 

I've always assumed that Atris did send the Handmaiden with the (Male) Exile because of how she felt about him, not because of Kreia.

[Sargeras]

The great thing about The Sith Lords is that its open to a lot of supposition and interpretation. Even with the cut content intact, there are lots of questions that are never answered, on purpose.

[Knights&Darths]

Those are just suppositions though. Presuming Kreia is Kae, we don't know if she even cared about her daughter or not, and I certainly believe it is not folly to assume that she didn't care if something dangerous happened to her or not. This is Kreia we are talking about, someone who was hell bent on destroying the will of the force, as she believed. It was clear she was prepared to sacrifice many lives in order to achieve her goal.

I don't recall presenting them as facts, read again and you'll find ifs, maybes, perhaps, and more importantly a whatever, it doesn't matter how far can we go with speculations, that as I was trying to point out, is beyond the point.

Umm...I still don't see how this supports the theory that Kreia manipulated Atris into sending the Handmaiden with the Exile.

At which you should have concluded that I was dropping the matter in the light of new evidence.

Kreia/Kae; I'm guessing that the cut content has something in here that would let us know if they are one and the same. Still, it is worth noting that there is nothing in the game that indicates that Kreia ever faught in the Mandolorian wars as Kae did.

No, it goes far beyond the cut content, actually thats got very little involvement. Kreia did fight in the Mandalorian Wars and was thought to be a casualty, ask Master Kavar, I mean he says that loud and clear at the enclave, as clear as Kreia says that - like all the others who fell to the dark side and were lost trace of - she became stronger. Also Kreia says that she knew Arren, not just heard of like everyone would of an exiled Jedi Master with child - remember that exile is a rare sentence - involved in a relationship with probably the most famous of Echani generals, and who was Master to the leader of the Jedi faction marching to war, later to become Darth Revan.

If Kreia managed to manipulate someone at the other end of the academy without being able to see them at the time, then she would have been a hell of a lot more powerful that anyone gave her credit for.

But she does, Kreia echoes throughout the galaxy right to Atris'self-righteous white little head the Handmaide's betrayal so that she would know.

[Guest The Architect]

I don't recall presenting them as facts, read again and you'll find ifs, maybes, perhaps, and more importantly a whatever, it doesn't matter how far can we go with speculations, that as I was trying to point out, is beyond the point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is that so? You said:

 

The Handmaiden may be her daughter, if so then Kreia wouldn't want to have her on a dangerous journey, much less want the Exile to bind with her while she planned to either kill the Exile or be killed by him. Then again she wouldn't want her daughter to be exposed to Atris any longer now that she has returned, much less want to leave her on Telos with what was coming to the planet, and indeed she needed the docking codes to get to Atris. So many questions, yet the answers are few.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You said that:

 

1. Kreia wouldn't want to have her on a dangerous journey.

2. Kreia wouldn't want the Exile to bind with her while she planned to either kill the Exile or be killed by him.

3. Kreia wouldn't want to leave her on Telos with what was coming to the planet, and indeed she needed the docking codes to get to Atris.

 

Those are not suppositions. Presuming Kreia is Kae, we simply don't know what she wanted for her daughter. How do you know?

 

At which you should have concluded that I was dropping the matter in the light of new evidence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, you should have concluded that, since it was your theory in the first place, not mine. You never did, so how was I supposed to know?

 

And Darth Mortis, I'd wonder why Master Kavar said "I thought you died in (not 'during') the Mandalorian Wars" if Kreia didn't fight in them. 'In' strongly infers that she did fight in the Mandalorian Wars, and adds to the nest of clues which strongly suggests that Kreia and Kae are the same person. There are three clues IMO that stand out, but this isn't a Kreia/Kae debate.

Edited January 5, 2007 by The Architect

[Knights&Darths]

I don't recall presenting them as facts, read again and you'll find ifs, maybes, perhaps, and more importantly a whatever

Is that so? [

[Guest The Architect]

Maybe I wasn't making myself clear enough, and I don't mean to be rude, but I'm sure I said something about questions with few answers, speculations, using ifs and maybes. It is possible Kae cares nothing for her daughter assuming she yet lives in the person of Kreia, everything is possible, but I said it before and I'll say it again, that is beyond the point. We're talking about Atris here remeber?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yet you never said it's possible Kae cares nothing for her daughter assuming she is Kreia, you said that Kreia wouldn't want to have her on a dangerous journey, Kreia wouldn't want the Exile to bind with her while she planned to either kill the Exile or be killed by him and Kreia wouldn't want to leave her on Telos with what was coming to the planet, and indeed she needed the docking codes to get to Atris. You are basically saying that Kreia, assuming she is Kae, would care about her daughter, which may, or may not be true. That's what I was pointing out.

 

Well, I brought new evidence against what I was assuming in the first place. I saw other traces of alternative dialogs which confirmed that Kreia's hold over Atris had probably very little to do with why the Handmaiden's sisters are told she felt on a whim. When someone does that, unless he's a fool, it is safe to assume he is dropping the matter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Care to show us this dialogue that infers Kreia's hold over Atris had probably very little to do with why the Handmaiden went with the male Exile?

Edited January 6, 2007 by The Architect

[Purgatorio]

I said "I am not of the opinion that Kriea is Brianna's mother" because I think her motivations are more varied than just the possibility of her being Brianna's mother. It was only my own opinion based on observation, and my interpretation of what is fact.... (crap after saying that I will probably have to list citations ) It was relevant to the question of her actions regarding Brianna, and by proxy Atris, because as I outlined there are other possible reasons for her behaviour. If I had known I would have bound my fingers and bit my tongue. (Not like anyone needed a shove in that direction).

 

Since it has already gone down this path. What Kavar says at the meeting when Kriea walks in, "I thought you died in the Mandalorian Wars" Obviously he thought wrong. Why would Kriea who taught Revan to act rather than recline upon a feather mattress (an assumption, but valid in regard to her character) not leave the order? You can not assume she waged war with Revan. She was absent, the information available for what Kriea was doing during that period is not exactly great, or particularly reliable:

Much of Kreia's early life is shrouded in mystery. It is known that she worked her way to the rank of Jedi Master and that she trained many students, the most famous of whom was Revan. It is very possible she fought during the Great Sith War and was the guardian of the Jedi Archives before Atris. Cont  http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kriea

So why would she leave her daughter with the Jedi? Was the reason she left Brianna with Atris because of the Librarian link? Most of Kriea's actions can be attributed to being betrayed and blamed by the council, and her relationship with Revan.

I have only read the Wookiepedia on Kriea. Wookiepedia is not the best source of information as we all know, do you have anything that is more reliable?

Of course anything is possible with the Force, so logic is irrelevant.

Repeat after me: "Logic is irrelevant, it is Starwars not StarTrek." "Logic is irrelevant, it is Starwars not StarTrek." :crazy: Let that be the new Jedi Code. I know I repeat it every time I see a plot hole.

 

For the changed script,: Artist are fickle, and so are their patrons, "His lordship wants it to reflect himself more so you will have to hire an Elephant" "The wedding is off so you will have to change the whole Opera to suit the new Bride" "The coda is too long, now it's too short, now it's not short enough." "It needs Trumpets and Tympani and I will only appear atop a white stallion in gleaming armour".

 

I may have found a new sig.

Snip: I know because it's you, you were being sarcastic.

:D Edited January 6, 2007 by Purgatorio

[Knights&Darths]

Maybe I wasn't making myself clear enough [

[Purgatorio]

Jinga::She was able to describe in great detail what it felt like to be crushed by the MSG, and the contempt she has for the alien clearly seems to be more than an impersonal feeling.

Why exactly would her feelings be impersonal if she walked on Malachore's surface?

 

The idea that Kriea could only know what the death of Malachore felt like because she was there is mistaken. She was on the surface for some time, the very heart of Malachore channels the force... The heart of Malachor is used for this channeling. "To walk on its surface is to feel it crushing every cell of your being. It is like being buried alive until it seems you will never breathe again." Crushing the life out of all who walk on it's surface, so surely being on the planet at anytime would cause some kind of knowledge or understanding to be obtained. Especially for one such as her who already sort answers. Malachore itself is damaging to force users because of the taint, it is similar to what the PC experiences if trying to enter Ludo Kresh's Tomb when not far enough towards Light or Dark. She even said to the corpses of the Masters "How could you know if you have never walked on its surface."

If she was on Malachore at the time the Mass Shadow Generator was activated, wouldn't she have become like Nihilus or the Exile?

 

Jinga::She did not leave her daughter with the Jedi - assuming she was Kae, she left her daughter with her half-sisters, to the tutelage of whoever but Atris was to attend at Yusanis'offspring, only to find many years later that she had disappointingly become but a servant and a tool of another's will.

The "only to find many years later that she had disappointingly become but a servant and a tool of another's will" is where your argument fails because there is no suggestion of Kriea being disappointed.

To build upon the metaphore: You use this as a twig in your nest of theory, but this twig is more what Kae as a mother would or might feel. This fragile stick does not bend to fit the basket, because it is not on Kreia's character. I could say that Kriea might have been less cantankerous before she was shunned and went looking for why Revan did all that followed Revan leaving the Jedi. However that would be conjecture, because we know nothing of her personality prior to leaving the order.

 

Jinga::There is more to why Kreia fought beside Revan, take these two quotations:

"You were there at Malachor. Revan's choices were always his own. It was not teaching, or circumstance, or example. It was him. "

 

[Purgatorio]

^ I spelt your name wrong, Sorry.

Too late to edit. :">

[Knights&Darths]

I am sorry I don't have the faintest idea what that Jinga means though I have a feeling an explanation would fail to prove worthwhile. No matter

[Darth Mortis]

That only proves that she knew Revan, the conversation is in regard to why Revan did those things and why she was blamed for Revan's actions.

But what's important about it is that she says "you were there at Malachor", like she was. I mean she makes observations on something you have to be there to see.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Three points;

 

1; Kriea's line "You were at Malacor" does not in itself imply that Kreia was there at the same time as the Exile, just that she knows what happened there. As the fact that the Exile was at Malacor doesn't seem to be a great secret, (Atton mentions it-in fact he gives a nice list of some of the places the Exile was during the Madolorian war), it doesn't seem that Kriea needed to be there at all during the war.

 

2; KOTOR takes place some 2-3 years after the Madolorian war, and KOTOR 2 takes place some 5 years after that. That would be plenty of time for Kriea to have gone to Malacor after the war.

 

3; There is no indication that the Exile and Kriea ever met before KOTOR 2. It would have been very strange if they hadn't met given that most of the Jedi who took part in the war tended to be younger Jedi knights. The presence of a Jedi master (Which if Kriea trained as many Jedi as she seemed to have done, to say nothing of being a historian in the jedi order, she must have been) should have been known to the commander of the Republics forces-that is the Exile-it would be strange if he/she had not at least heard of her if she was under his command at Malocor. Yes, Kriea does admit that she can use the force to make people forget shes there, or to hide her identity, but she says quite clearly that shes not using that power on the Exile-"It is important that you see me as I am" she tells the exile (Or a line like that, I can't recall the exact wording). Either Kriea was lying or the two of them never met before.

 

While it could be argued that Kriea might have been known by another name at the time it is unlikely that her name was Kae since the Exile has to be told who Master Kae was. Its worth pointing out that since the Handmaiden has the face of her mother had the Exile ever met Kae he/she should have passed comment on this. Instead the option is "If your any indication she must have been beutiful.." (Again, can't remember the exact wording). This implies that the Exile never saw Master Kae.

Edited January 7, 2007 by Darth Mortis

[Knights&Darths]

But what's important about it is that she says "you were there at Malachor", like she was. I mean she makes observations on something you have to be there to see.

[

Edited January 7, 2007 by jinger

[Darth Mortis]

I meant that she had to be there and watch Revan's actions to make those kind of judgments, not that she had to be there to know the Exile was as well, she brings the Exile's attention at things you have to be there to see, as I bring to your attention that those who weren't there never knew anything about what happend on Malachor, the only Jedi witnesses either died or were turned to the dark side, like Master Vrook says.

 

Revan was never on Malacor IV, at least not until after the war finished. The final battle of the war was commanded by the Exile, Revan was fighting Mandolore at this time and didn't arrive until afterwards.

 

I take it you ain't buying that Kreia couldn't be talking about Malachor as it is now. Why?

 

No, I am assuming that she is talking about Malachor as it is now. Maybe I should have been clearer and said that Kreia didn't have to have been at Malachor during the final battle, she could have discovered everything she knows/says from visiting afterwards and talking to those who survived-Sion would be just one person who could have recounted what happened.

 

The lines above help explain quite a bit, among them may be why the Exile and the others don't seem to remember Kreia and Kae and everithing that should be common knowledge about them both and whatever would potentially be a threat to her purpose or simply cause trouble. The Exile finds strange that she doesn't remember Kae joining the war, she even ask Kreia if she's sure. You can see the Disciple getting mind tricked to forget dangerous knowledge about the one he claims to be Revan's first and final master. Kae was exiled when her daughter was almost a teenager, the Jedi wouldn't have found out about her if she hadn't spent a single moment with her child in ten years, yet the Handmaiden doesn't remember that.

 

First, Kriea does say that is is important that the Exile see her for what she is. That would be hard if she was blanking his/her mind.

 

Second, If Kriea was exiled (And I'm assuming she was) that in itself might explain why Disciple knew who she was-he was after all collecting as much information about the Jedi as he could find. While such information wouldn't have been common knowlege it was in the Jedi databases, and he could have read something about it. He does pass a few comments about exile being a rare sentance, which does imply that he's read a fair amount on the subject. As you also noted he was a prospective student, so he might have heard about Kriea and her exile before he left.

 

Third, you are still working from false logic. While Kriea might have been master Kae and the Handmaidens mother, that is never stated at any point. While I am willing to consider it a possibility, you are stating for fact what is only an assumption made from things said in the game that are not conclusive one way or another. You could argue the point, but what is said could also be used for both views.

 

Last, where did it say how old the Handmaiden was when her mother left? I don't recall the Handmaiden saying anything more than she never knew her mother, I'd like to know if I missed something.

 

When Kreia and the Exile are met by Dillon on Dantooine, the woman is told a former settler has returned for the first time since the Mandalorian Wars, Kreia says many Jedi lived there from time to time, furthermore she recognizes the Enclave so I think it is safe to assume both the Exile and Kreia were on Dantooine for a time and since the Enclave has only so much room I have trouble believing they would never see each other, a Jedi Master with unorthodox and rather debated teaching methods and an even bigger subject of discussion such as the Exile, you may remeber how Vrook and Vandar used to argue about her, Kavar also says her talents always were prone to have consequences into others.

 

*Nods* Kreia's reaction to the enclave does mean she used to be there. That doesn't mean that she had to be there at the same time as the Exile, she says that 'Its been a long time' (Which could mean anything from 7 years upwards). It was also mentioned in KOTOR that Dantooine wasn't the only place jedi were trained, Courisant was another place (I'm taking this from the game KOTOR, not the films). Its just as likely that Kriea spent some time teaching on Courisant as on dantooine. Remember that Vrook was not just one of the masters teaching on Dantooine, he was also a member of the Jedi council on Corisant. He could well have been talking about Krieas training on either world.

 

As for Kae, everyone would have heard of an exiled Jedi Master with child as I said, exile is a rare sentence and her involvement in a relationship with probably the most famous of Echani generals, which was known to the Exile as one of the greatest heros of the Mandalorian Wars, also wouldn't have helped keeping it quiet. Not to mention she was Master to the leader of the Jedi faction marching to war, later to become Darth Revan.

 

Master Kae was presented as one of the masters who trained Revan; "...And with master Kae before Kae left for the war.....it is said that he/she returned at the end of his/her training to seek out his/hers first master..." (Meaning Revan). To me this does not imply that Kae was Revans first master, just one of them. And if I recall correctly this is not just said by Kriea but also by Disciple who would have had no reason to lie.

 

The Disciple also knew Kreia and Master Kae, and he was a prospective student on Dantooine. There are also many words that were exchanged with Kreia that clearly hint at her bearing a forbidden name - a name that couldn't possibly be her Sith alias because he wouldn't have any means to know that name, not that asking "why have you done this" to a Sith would have made sense anyway - and he speaks of her as if he knew her before she got herself the markings of the dark side.

 

Discple never said he knew Master Kae, he just mentions her name in connection to training Revan. Again, your taking what is a theory and presenting it as fact, which it isn't. All the comments about Krieas hidden name could just as easily mean she was Revans mother.

[Guest The Architect]

I see this is turning into a Kreia/Kae debate. Well, even though the fact is, we don't know if Kreia is/isn't the Handmaiden's mother, I'm sure I could convince anyone that they are the same person. So, let me know if I should make my argument or not. Is it worth it? Meh, it depends. It may not be a good idea if you don't like reading long posts.

Edited January 7, 2007 by The Architect

[Knights&Darths]

I only hope the moderator that is no doubt soon to close this embarassingly off topic 3d will bother moving the discussion to a new one rather than just shut us up.

Revan was never on Malacor IV, at least not until after the war finished. The final battle of the war was commanded by the Exile, Revan was fighting Mandolore at this time and didn't arrive until afterwards.

What do you mean Revan was never there? The whole point of that battle was bringing Jedi to Malachor, where they could be easily corrupted. By the time the MSG was activated Revan was out system but that doesn't mean he never set foot on the surface. Whatever the time Kreia is talking about she clearly speaks of Revan's actions on Malachor, that's important, because the only way she could know about them is that she was there to see them and judge them:

"You were there at Malachor. Revan's choices were always his own. It was not teaching, or circumstance, or example. It was him."

 

[Darth Mortis]

Yes, I agree. I don't think this is going to settle anything since we could both make a case for and against from what is in the game(s). Lets just agree to disagree on this, and sorry for the long posts lol.

 

*Edit* Yes, I quite agree that there are a lot of things that could hint that Kriea and Kae are one and the same. Unfortunatly none of these hints became anything else, I'm assuming it was cut content in the game. The problem as it stands is that there is nothing to stop LA from saying that it has a different meaning, which is why I'm unwilling to say they are the same person. As we've just proved its a matter where everyone could disagree, and its not likely to be sorted out until, or unless LA offically states what is canon. (LA states that Revan was LS male in canon, while the developers were clear, at least afterwards, that they intended canon Revan to be female so things can change between what the writers intended and what LA decides.....I'm sure this is only done to annoy as many people as possible lol).

 

I'll finish here with just two things, first of all thanks for reminding me of what Kriea said about the Handmaiden's mother. I've played the game god knows how many times and still managed to forget that line.

 

Second, sorry if I souned like I was insulting you at any point, that wasn't my intention-I don't deliberatly insult people on chatrooms/message boards period, which doesn't unfortunatly mean I don't accidently manage to do so from time to time. If I did say anything that you took as an insult then I am very sorry for having done so.

Edited January 8, 2007 by Darth Mortis

[Purgatorio]

jinger,

I am not one who insults people in gibberish, When I do it's in a common tongue, or at least a language that is easily translatable via a quick Google. I mean what's the point of insulting a person if they don't know what your saying?

 

I re-state this for the purpose that will become evident. Malachore itself is damaging to force users because of the taint, it is similar to what the PC experiences if trying to enter Ludo Kresh's Tomb when not far enough towards Light or Dark. So you could assume that when Sion tells the Exile to "return to the surface and let Malachore claim you like all the other Jedi" (or something along those lines) That Malachore still has that effect of making people fall.

1)Kriea was a grey Jedi.

2)Malachore corrupts all life that walks on it's surface.

3)Dark places fueled by death and discord like Malachore, Korriban, and even the Tomb of Freedon Nadd have enough power to make a Jedi doubt, break, or become stronger.

Which supports the theory that Kriea might have gone to Malachore after the MSG was activated. Therefore she could just as likely be speaking of Malachor as it is now, or when she first went there.

 

jinger:: What do you mean Revan was never there? The whole point of that battle was bringing Jedi to Malachor, where they could be easily corrupted. By the time the MSG was activated Revan was out system but that doesn't mean he never set foot on the surface. Whatever the time Kreia is talking about she clearly speaks of Revan's actions on Malachor, that's important, because the only way she could know about them is that she was there to see them and judge them:

"You were there at Malachor. Revan's choices were always his own. It was not teaching, or circumstance, or example. It was him."