alanschu Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 A. I doubt you really *need* him. Secondly, if Obsidian was deisgning the game with actual real role-playing in mind; they wouldn't design in sucha way that an npc would be forced on you. Period. And, btw, that even includes the npcs I actually like. That's bullcrap. I'm not sure what "actual real role-playing" has to do with anything. Sometimes circumstances mean that you cannot do everything yourself, no matter what you want to. Ammon Jerro performs the ritual on the final statue of purification, which is a good thing because YOU don't get there in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) So... it seems that Jerro isn't needed... You could always use the Gith. Exactly why is the purification ritual needed? the ones I got, while useful, aren't the be all end all of things. Well.. I'll see when I get to the end; but the illogical of the illogicies is beyond the illogic of this decision. Why oh why did BIO have to start this trend with KOTOR thenh have Obsidian cotninue wiit with KOTOT2 and NWN2 as well as BIO themselves with JE!?! Urgh!!!!! "Ammon Jerro performs the ritual on the final statue of purification, which is a good thing because YOU don't get there in time." And? That doesn't expalin why you NEED him! Like I said before, I'd rtaher use the Gith. Look at that! A choice! Gith > Jerro. You don't even need the rituals if the rituals the PC gets are any sample of them. L0LLERZ!!! Talk about bullcrap! Your fanboyness of rabidly defending this asanine deisgn decision is absolutely hialrious!! Edited November 14, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 He was the one that performed the ritual on the final statue, not you. Yeah, that's why you're supposed to need him. The abilities you gain from the ritual are supposedly essential, but I am confident that the King of Shadows can be beaten without ever using the web. I'm even confident he can be beaten with Ammon Jerro being KO'ed through all of the fight (well, most of it if he goes down as soon as possible in each segment). Which is why I'm saying that you probably don't really need him. Zhaijve and him certainly think you do, and he certainly helps a lot (the web ability does make the second stage a lot simpler) but he is hardly essential. The sword, on the other hand, is. I'm just saying that if you're going to make a huge deal about a character being the key to your success, then make sure that he actually is. I personally didn't mind how Ammon Jerro were thrown into the party though, at that point you could hardly say no to anyone who wanted to help you and it was a good way for him to start atoning for his sins. (and my current, evil, character will just be happy to be rid of Shandra who didn't even speak for him at his trial, but he can't kick her out since he made a promise and he is also lawful and stands by his word) (if the game would allow to kick her out that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Yeah, that's why you're supposed to need him. The abilities you gain from the ritual are supposedly essential, but I am confident that the King of Shadows can be beaten without ever using the web. I'm even confident he can be beaten with Ammon Jerro being KO'ed through all of the fight (well, most of it if he goes down as soon as possible in each segment). Which is why I'm saying that you probably don't really need him. Zhaijve and him certainly think you do, and he certainly helps a lot (the web ability does make the second stage a lot simpler) but he is hardly essential. The sword, on the other hand, is. I was under the impression that it was the presence alone that was required, not the actual skills. The rituals of purification, while granting you additional powers, have affected you in such a way that your presence alone made all the difference. And this wasn't something that I thought of after the game either, but how I thought it was right from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I got the impression that it was the skills, but I could very well be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 We will clearly need to settle this in a Trial by Combat. Would you rather go up against my Rogue/Assassin, or my Paladin/Divine Champion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 LOL :D DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Oh, I can take either. My Rogue/Shadowdancer/Fighter/Shadow Thief will make mincemeat out of anyone. My Fighter/Divine Champion isn't quite as impressive though (nor as fun to play) but he makes up for it with ruthlessness. Interesting that we'd play so similar characters, although still quite different. Since my first character, the rogue, was good (chaotic good, but still) and the other is (lawful) evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramza Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 hey, just make online multiplayer tournaments just to see who's stronger! *grins evilly* "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Man, a fight between an assassin and a shadowdancer would be beyond stupid. hide - sneak attack - hide etc ad nauseum. From both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) Oh, I can take either. My Rogue/Shadowdancer/Fighter/Shadow Thief will make mincemeat out of anyone. My Fighter/Divine Champion isn't quite as impressive though (nor as fun to play) but he makes up for it with ruthlessness. Interesting that we'd play so similar characters, although still quite different. Since my first character, the rogue, was good (chaotic good, but still) and the other is (lawful) evil. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Haha, that's awesome, because my Rogue is chaotic evil, and my fighter is lawful good. Your chars could probably beat up on mine, though my assassin's ability to hide in plain sight was remarkably useful. It basically let me get sneak attacks, even in one on one combat. And since he was a dual wielder, he'd actually get two sneak attacks. I dropped many guys in a single hit. Didn't bother with the poison stuff though (as at the time I didn't really know how to). I think my Paladin/Divine Champion will do better though, as I'm playing with crafting. I have an Alchemical Silver Long Sword that is currently Holy, with a +3 enchantment. Once I hit level 15, that thing will be a +5 enchantment, with probably 1d6 electrical damage as well. I also have mithril full plate, with a +3 enchantment on that as well, and a Duskwood Heavy Shield, with only a +1 enchantment. And all I need to do is get Grobnar/Sand Craft Wonderous Items, and I should be able to craft the Cloak of +8 Charisma (woo!). I bet my Paladin (when done) and your rogue would have a decent fight. Because my Paladin also happens to have blind fighting, which would help with your invisible trickery. Though if you have a significant amount of spells, you'll probably still wax me. Though I get both a Smite Evil and a Smite Infidel, which would help me in hitting and hurting you. EDIT: Whoops, I meant your fighter, since your rogue was a good guy, and my sword and skills would be useless against you! Edited November 14, 2006 by alanschu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 HIPS is over powered. Plain, and simple. I wish BIo didn't add it. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) vs my rogue the smite abilites would do nothing since she's good as well. And she doesn't do spells, she's fairly straight forward. Dual-wielding two +5 maces one with fire and vampiric damage and the other with fire and adamantine (is adamantine the only material that counts as an enchantment or do the others as well btw?). So I know all about the hide in plain sight dual-wielding sneack attack trick. Oh, also there are some eelskin boots on this one for permanent haste and she has a decent AC of 32 (could have been higher if I had bothered to make bracers of armor for her). But the vampiric mace together with a ring of regeneration makes her hard to kill. Blind fighting is nasty though. Edit: And yeah, HIPS is kinda overpowered. It's fun to play with though. Edited November 14, 2006 by Spider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 Yeah, it's fun. I know it's overpwoered though at leats in NWN1. I haven't teried it in NWN2; but I'ms ure it works basically the same way. But when a shadowdancer/rogue/assassin can beat a fighter/dwarven defender (at level 40 for both) in a striaght up one on one contes with hardly ever getting hit; there is something wrong. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Yeah, I meant against your fighter, since he's the evil one. THis would be awesome (as in not, when we use HIPS), since it'd be Rogue on Rogue, and Fighter on Fighter! hahaha My Rogue seems to be nerfed against yours, since I barely touched on crafting my first playthrough. Having a blast with it this time, though I think it might make things even easier in the game. It's still cool and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Damn you guys. And I thought my rogue was decent. Hit level 14 a moment ago. Currently dual-weilding short swords. Both are plus three right now. One has 1d6 electrical and the other has 1d6 cold. Cold damage sucks when trying to fight undead. At least he has a higher AC that you two do right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 You can only use it once ever 6 seconds. So the fighter should get a few hits in. Unless you run away of course (and with a high enough tumble skill or spring attack, there won't be any AoO either). It would be awful in PvP though, especially in one on one. By the way, alan, why didn't you take any shadow thief levels? Even just the one would have given you an additional sneak attack dice and they are much better than rogue levels anyway. Also, in a rogue on rogue fight I would actually give the edge to you. Given that you can sneak attack me but I can't do it on you thanks to uncanny dodge (I only have 15 levels that grant it, while you have 20). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 What AC does he have Deraldin and how? *curious* I know I could have gotten 37 with bracers of armor that I never bothered to make, but am I missing something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 What AC does he have Deraldin and how?*curious* I know I could have gotten 37 with bracers of armor that I never bothered to make, but am I missing something else? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've currently got an AC of 36. I can easily bump that up even higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Item list pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) One moment while I restart the game... Will edit with list. Here we go: And I made a mistake, it's on AC35 not 36. Swashbuckler's Hat (no AC+) Custom Mithril Chain Shirt Bracers of Armour +4 Swordsman Belt Amulet of Natural AC +2 Cloak of Fortification +2 Rings of Regeneration and Freedom (no AC+) Boots of the Sun Soul +4 Also +3 AC from feats. Edited November 14, 2006 by Deraldin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roshan Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Thats certainly possible. Khelgar has 30 ac in my game and I am still at the middle, I havent done any crafting, and my pc has the best gear. I think upto 45 ac or so may be possible. Dodge and luck of heroes - 2 Mithril full plate plus 5 - 17 (If I assume correctly that the dex bonus will increase from 1 to 3, otherwise, mithril breastplate plus 5 for 15, also theoretical) Amulet of natural armor plus 5 Tower shield - Provides 4 ac at base, i dont know what the maximum enchantment for shields is Ring of protection plus 3 (Is that the max? Or can you get more deflection bonus than this, from rings or any other items?) There are several items that add other stackable AC bonuses. You can also equip bracers of armor plus 8, in which case the enchantment of your armor becomes useless, but thats still 3 ac more over a plus 5 armor. If I am correct and characters start with a base ac of 10, then an AC of about 50 should be quite easy to achieve in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roshan Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 One moment while I restart the game... Will edit with list. Here we go: And I made a mistake, it's on AC35 not 36. Swashbuckler's Hat (no AC+) Custom Mithril Chain Shirt Bracers of Armour +4 Swordsman Belt Amulet of Natural AC +2 Cloak of Fortification +2 Rings of Regeneration and Freedom (no AC+) Boots of the Sun Soul +4 Also +3 AC from feats. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What is the third feat that you took to improve your AC? Is it the two weapon defence thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) What is the third feat that you took to improve your AC? Is it the two weapon defence thing? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Luck of Heroes and both Two Weapon Defence feats. I do have Dodge, but it isn't shown as far as I know. Edited November 14, 2006 by Deraldin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 (edited) I knew it was possible. I was just curious as to how. The big difference was the Boots of the Sun Soul. I have Eelskin Boots for permahaste instead. And I never got around to making the Mithril Chainshirt (or I crafted one, just never enchanted it so I used Darkflame instead). Also, Deraldin, Luck of Heroes, Dodge and what else for feats? Edit: nevermind about the feats. Edited November 14, 2006 by Spider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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