what's happened in the end

[Knights&Darths]

there are some things to consider before answering:

• the echo relies on the bond. Kreia dies, the Exile is wounded, the echo travels.
  
• but Vash thought that if Kreia fell to the dark side the bond would go away, is the bond gone away? Zez-Kai Ell says something like that too, that to break a bond your feelings would have to change, if what forged the bond was some sort of kinship (born and grown as Kreia helped the Exile to feel the Force again) then maybe her turning on the Exile was what it took.
  
• yes but Kreia fell to the dark side because she thought she had failed, be defeated by the Exile proved her otherwise, in the end she says you saved her.
  
• oh but the Exile doesn't seem to be feeling pain or anything when Kreia dies.
  
• more than that, before the end she seems to realize something important, i think maybe she realized she was still a pawn of the Force, even in her quest to cut her off from the galaxy ("Atton is, as always, the fool. And the Force watches out for ones such as him, I feel. As it does for the old such as I.") and that the Force was to "survive" after all, she even goes as far as saying that your companions were in truth the Lost Jedi you had to gather and train for the new Jedi Order.
  
• but that sounds a bit controversial
  
• maybe she figured that out and started thinking about the things she could do something about: fighting the Sith in the great war that comes, now the Exile's training is complete, those Jedi jerks and the Sith Lords are gone, she's had proof that her teachings wrought the best Jedi in the galaxy and she can rest in peace.
  

[kalimeeri]

She also spoke of creating another echo to counter/cancel out the first. Malachor was broadcasting an echo that had been affecting people since Exile and Bao-dur touched off the MSG, because of all the souls who died there. I believe that's the reason she forced the showdown on that planet.

 

The theory was that when the two echoes collided, the waves of both would be silenced. It didn't have to be a huge one, but it did have to be strategically placed.

[Revan1127]

I never really understood the echo thing in my opinion they kind of just forgot about it at the end. One thing is supposing if you kill kreia you were supposed to die too, but I never remember anyone explain why you don

[Xard]

In the end ol' bitch died

[Knights&Darths]

I never really understood the echo thing in my opinion they kind of just forgot about it at the end. One thing is supposing if you kill kreia you were supposed to die too, but I never remember anyone explain why you don

[Zilod]

nono.... i think there is a misconception here...

the way that kreia want to destroy the force is not an apocaliptic one.

 

she actually doesn't chose for all the galaxy, condamning the force sensitive guys to die...

 

to do that there is alredy Nihilus and we know she want to stop him or the galaxy will be lost.

 

the way Kreia want to "kill the force" is by an axample for people and the exile is that example, is a model or an "ubermensch", someone that can act as a model and insipre the others around him showing a path, a life free from the force.

 

this is the influence and the "right echo" she speak about many times (for example on nar shadda) is not the death of the galaxy but its freedom.

 

 

also i agree that we don't really know if Kreia is right... but even looking at the movies we see 2 wars, planet destroyed, millions of innocent killed and that just because the force have to "find balance".... personally i really simpatize with Kreia tought, and it seem to me she was quite right

 

 

so the way this Echo will spread will be not a be deaf to the force or die... (nihilus alredy satisfy it to an extent)...

 

the thing really important about the exile is not that she is an hole in the force, but that she chose to be excluded from the force, she decided it... she can show to others that it is possible to live and "fulfill themselves" whitout the force then the others are free to do the same choice as the exile.

 

 

 

 

and for Nihilus... he is probably a jedi who felt on malachor and barely survived (same as Sion), i really don't think is a sort of "dark side god", the fact that he was reborn on malachor could be not intended in a phisical way, but in a more "spiritual" one.

 

 

adding about Nihil...

he is very similar to the exile, its a sort of antagonist and it was created/"drained" by the exile herself (same for Sion and eventually, at the end, even Traya) so yes is an hole in the force as the exile...

probably the main difference is that the exile have no need to fill her emptyness (as was her choice) while Nihilus is not able to do that and consume everything for his hunger.

 

also i suspect that actually Nihilus was the first try from Kreia to "destroy" the force... but it ended quite bad as we know.

 

 

Nihilus was created by the exile, Kreia say that quite directly in the end, also the fact that you can learn that tech only if you experiment it in first person imply that nihilus had to be drained by someone/something to know it.

 

Kreia also refer to the 3 sith lords as echoes of malachor and the exile herself... what came from malachor came actually from the exile not the bomb, the war or Revan...

 

this is an important distinction to do... was not the gravitational thing that created an hole in the force, nor the deaths, was the Exile... is quite easy to consider the 2 things as the same (and yes the exila severed her bounding cause the deaths on mala) but they are actually 2 very different things (and quite easy to confuse)

 

so when Kreia speaks about the echoes from malachor she is speaking about the echoes generated by the exile, Nihilus included... actually is veeeeeeeeeeery probable that both Sion and Nihilus where jedis under Revan army or at least some force sensitive guys that fought there.

 

i think they where actually quite close to the exile and that she had strong bounds with them... is interesting to see how Kreia (i think in dant academy dark side/killing master) say that the Exile tought them not only to "drain the force" but to extabilish bounds/links.

 

 

 

 

about Kreia and Exile bound... is quite controversal i agree... the thing about if one die the other will suffer same destiny is a bit confusing

 

i think in the end the bond was broken with Kreia's death and this left a "wound" as Zez said... also a lot of time ago had a very nice discussion about these things, kreia and the game on the forum and was ipotized that Kreia had to die for the exile to be free because she had some "control" over the exile.

 

basically the idea is... the exile can't be really free from the force as she is influenced by Kreia who is not free from the force so her death is necessary for the Exile to be "complete" in her freedom from the force.

 

a veeeery interesting point imo, as it is not really clear why Kreia want to die and this is a good explanation.

 

(also we have to say that maybe, in the uncut version, Kreia had not to die, but also we don't really know if and how that is possible)

[Knights&Darths]

the way Kreia want to "kill the force" is by an axample for people and the exile is that example, is a model or an "ubermensch", someone that can act as a model and insipre the others around him showing a path, a life free from the force.

that is an interesting way of putting it thought it wouldn't really be "killing the Force", more like denying the "will of the Force", even so how would that cause people to be deafened to the Force? or die?

the way this Echo will spread will be not a be deaf to the force or die...

Atris didn't think so, when the Exile met her in battle she spoke of Kreia's plans for creating an echo in the Force powerful enough to travel forever throughout the galaxy never reaching its destination, leaving in its wake dead spots in which the Force cannot be felt, on Malachor Kreia herself confirms as much, threateing to kill the Exile would she not kill her, because one of them has to die for the bond to become a wound and create the echo.

he is very similar to the exile, its a sort of antagonist and it was created/"drained" by the exile herself (same for Sion and eventually, at the end, even Traya) so yes is an hole in the force as the exile...

here we go deep into suppositions, it is suggested Nihilus learned the Exile's technique to bond with people and that is what in a way explains why he is similar to the Exile and why he suffered the same fate on Malachor. Kreia says that the technique he uses to feed on the Force is something learned instinctually by experiencing its effects first hand, supposedly he used that technique to survive the MSG and preserve his power, then he flew Malachor with the Ravager. Sion is different, he learned to draw his power from pain and kept himself alive, like he does when he battles the Exile.

i think they where actually quite close to the exile and that she had strong bounds with them... is interesting to see how Kreia (i think in dant academy dark side/killing master) say that the Exile tought them not only to "drain the force" but to extabilish bounds/links.

":: You have taught them to bond with others, and then feed on others through that bond. ::" she doesn't mean the Exile taught them to drain the Force, if the Exile kills the masters she clearly says "I've never done anything like that before.", it is that Kreia sees taking strenghts from others and feed upon them much as the same ability, which it is but not in the common moral sense, the Exile always did form bonds with others and those connections granted strengths both to them and to the Exile, they never represented a threat to them. then again the ability to form connections is what Nihilus learned from the Exile and he used that ability much as a dark Exile would on the jedi masters: "It is a way that they fill the hollow places where the Force used to be." there is no evidence however that would suggest the Exile and Sion knew each other, quite the contrary, and we do not know the identity of Darth Nihilus so he could be anyone.

(also we have to say that maybe, in the uncut version, Kreia had not to die, but also we don't really know if and how that is possible)

early dev no doubt, it featured Kreia's "redemption" and Atris taking up the mantel of Darth Traya, there is some evidence of this but much is missing and the story evolved to something too far from that for it to be a late choice.

[Zilod]

the way this Echo will spread will be not a be deaf to the force or die...

Atris didn't think so, when the Exile met her in battle she spoke of Kreia's plans for creating an echo in the Force powerful enough to travel forever throughout the galaxy never reaching its destination, leaving in its wake dead spots in which the Force cannot be felt, on Malachor Kreia herself confirms as much, threateing to kill the Exile would she not kill her, because one of them has to die for the bond to become a wound and create the echo.

 

Jedi masters, and Atris in particular, have no clue about the exile, her importance and the plan of Kreia... they are blind by the force (as Kreia will say)

 

and about the fight between the Exile and Kreia... she had tons and tons of situations where she where able to kill the exile... even on dant academy (DS) she put the exile "asleep" and if she really wanted she had killed the exile.

if the plan was just to create the echoe you ipotize why she had not killed her?

and more important, why to continue to teach to the Exile?

 

as said in another 3d... this is a game of enlightment, the enlightment of the exile that have to be able to act as a light, a path... she is the "true" echo, not kreia or other sith lords.

 

when they fight on malachor Kreia wants to die, is the last test and her death will complete the exile "training"... if the Exile died then it was not a victory for Kreia, she also never mention the bound between them in such way.

 

also note that the 3 sith lords are considered by Kreia as all the same, we see them with different powers and strenghts but for Kreia there is not much difference.

 

when she speak about them she refers to them as echoes of malachor, she imply that all the 3 knows this technique and all 3 are a menace to the galaxy that will destroy/consume it.

 

we see Nihilus as the greater menace and the one that explored this technique more than others, but this doesn't imply that other ones doesn't know it or will not become as Nihilus with time.

 

so, another reason she had to die is that by herself she was a menace to the galaxy, when Kreia "is happy" because the exile stopped the siths she is speaking even about herself.

 

i think they where actually quite close to the exile and that she had strong bounds with them... is interesting to see how Kreia (i think in dant academy dark side/killing master) say that the Exile tought them not only to "drain the force" but to extabilish bounds/links.

":: You have taught them to bond with others, and then feed on others through that bond. ::" she doesn't mean the Exile taught them to drain the Force, if the Exile kills the masters she clearly says "I've never done anything like that before.", it is that Kreia sees taking strenghts from others and feed upon them much as the same ability, which it is but not in the common moral sense, the Exile always did form bonds with others and those connections granted strengths both to them and to the Exile, they never represented a threat to them. then again the ability to form connections is what Nihilus learned from the Exile and he used that ability much as a dark Exile would on the jedi masters: "It is a way that they fill the hollow places where the Force used to be." there is no evidence however that would suggest the Exile and Sion knew each other, quite the contrary, and we do not know the identity of Darth Nihilus so he could be anyone.

imo there are many hints and looking at them one by one maybe they don't make that sense... but put them togather...

 

Nihilus (and other sith lords too) learnt from the exile to create connections... when? where?

 

it had to be before Malachor and the Exile never met any sith before TSL... the only things that she have done before malachor was... to fight the manda wars and to stay in the academy.

 

so imo is quite evident that Nihilus had to be a jedi one of Dant academy (that followed Revan with the exile) or a "comrade" in manda wars.

 

we also know that jedis felt to dark side cause manda wars and in particular cause of malachor (who was the key in Revan plan to bring jedis to his side)... so again Nihilus had to be on malachor

 

Kreia also says that to learn that technique you have to feel its effects in first person... so Nihilus had to be drained by someone, and has he is considered an Echo of malachor the only one capable to do something like that was the exile.

 

again the Exile created malachor, nothing else, everything that comes from malachor or is related to it, comes directly from the exile as an echo.

 

this imply that if Nihilus is an hole in the force, he is an hole because of the exile.

 

now i'm not saying that the Exile consciously used that technique on Nihilus, my theory is that when the exile cut her bound with the force and the force was wounded by it... even the people "near" the exile, who had the strongest bounds with her, suffered from this loss and where wounded too... this apply to Nihilus but in a minor part even for Sion.

 

now about Sion....

 

i said before that all the sith lords are addressed more or less the same way, so all the reference about Nihilus technique and bounding techings is valid even for Sion...

 

on top of that i really had the impression that Sion knew the Exile and where very close, the dialogue at the academy when he tells the exile to turn away... the fact the exile is the weakness for him... even the confrontation on Korriban... he is tooo soft with her (with a female, canonic, exile... i'd say he love her )

 

and last thing... i think is interesting that all the 3 sith lords have a sort of mask so that the exile is not able to recognize them.

 

Kreia use her powers to remove her presence from Exile mind... so even if they knew each other the exile can't/don't remember it.... and also Kreia know the exile even before they meet.

 

Sion is no more recognizable, is broken and falling apart, not resembling anymore the man he was.

 

Nihilus have a mask and is no more a man... and even when he die, when the exile had the chance to look at him, she stay away awaiting Visas.

 

and all the 3 siths are not using their real names, so again the exile can't recognize them.

 

so yes... the Exile don't know them... but i'm pretty sure they knew her well

[chris the jedi killer]

She also spoke of creating another echo to counter/cancel out the first.  Malachor was broadcasting an echo that had been affecting people since Exile and Bao-dur touched off the MSG, because of all the souls who died there.  I believe that's the reason she forced the showdown on that planet.

 

The theory was that when the two echoes collided, the waves of both would be silenced.  It didn't  have to be a huge one, but it did have to be strategically placed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The death's the exile caused at malachor created the echo

[kalimeeri]

It's my belief that Kreia lied about the lethal nature of their bond, because Exile would not have taken her along for any lesser reason. The bond she spoke of was nothing but Exile's own strong ability; Exile just didn't know the difference.

 

If none of the Jedi masters or historians had ever heard of such a thing, that's a pretty strong hint it never existed. I think Vrook(?) even said so--'Perhaps that is only what you believe.'

[Zilod]

yup i think that too... ther's a very strong connection but i doubt too is letal... even Kreia is very vague speaking about this side effect and if i remember right she never tells that...

 

she always say perhaps, maybe... and so on...

 

i also suspect that Kreia chose to lose her hand to makes the exile feel the pain and show her that connection.

[kalimeeri]

Kreia chose to lose her hand

 

Maybe, maybe not. Sion wouldn't appear much of an adversary if she walked away from the fight without a scratch.

 

Kreia does have the ability to mask her feelings and even her presence, which makes this seem a little odd. Either she was totally taken by surprise, or she temporarily unmasked her feelings on purpose, or she didn't really know how strong Exile's ability actually was. Option #2 seems like it would be disgustingly gratifying to Sion, and I doubt she'd want to give him the satisfaction (as her student, he would feel it too). So I'd go with a combination of 1 & 2. But once she realized the effect it had on Exile, she knew she'd have to be more careful, or she'd scare him away--it was that affect that caused Exile to turn away from the Force in the first place. She couldn't risk that happening again.

[Knights&Darths]

the way this Echo will spread will be not a be deaf to the force or die...

Jedi masters, and Atris in particular, have no clue about the exile, her importance and the plan of Kreia... they are blind by the force (as Kreia will say)

i wouldn't say that. about the Exile, the only thing they missed is that she was everything that standed in the way of the Sith Lords, but that was because they kept feeling nothing in the Exile, like on Coruscant, like Vrook says in Khoonda. it is because the Force was stripped from her, same reason it was so easy for Kreia to remain unnoticed by Atris and the others, this Atris said when the Exile met her in battle. perhaps some quotations are needed.

"But I have reestablished my connection to the Force."

"Perhaps it is Dantooine, but I do not feel such from you - I feel nothing but what I felt in the Council judgment chamber on Coruscant, so long ago."

--The Exile and Master Vrook in Khoonda

"That's impossible. How could I not tell she was Sith?"

"Because the Force had been stripped from her... as it had been torn from you."

--The Exile and Atris

however, besides Atris, Kreia herself speaks of what she has in store for the galaxy, and the Exile. even if it is all a misunderstanding as you say, what manner of "example" would be killing Kreia, that it would somehow "spread to others"? i cannot help but feel unconvinced by this theory.

"She seeks the death of all Jedi, all Sith... and the death of the Force. It is madness, it is impossible - but she believes you are the key."

--Atris

"The apprentice must kill the Master - if you do not, I will kill you. If I do not, then all you have achieved will be as nothing, as empty, and as violent as Malachor itself."

--Kreia

and about the fight between the Exile and Kreia... she had tons and tons of situations where she where able to kill the exile...

before Malachor it would have been useless. the masters spoke of force bonds as of something the Exile was gifted with, and it was quite evident, Kreia used the Exile to twin their lives and trained her so that she would become strong, that the connection would become strong. the stronger one is in the Force, the stronger the connection, and the echo it leaves when it is wounded.

"Yes, always. From the moment you awoke, I have used you. I have used you so that you might become strong"

--Kreia

"The stronger your connection to life, to the Force, the stronger these echoes can be made - and the stronger they are felt."

--Kreia, ruins of the jedi enclave, cut content

[Knights&Darths]

when she speak about them she refers to them as echoes of malachor, she imply that all the 3 knows this technique and all 3 are a menace to the galaxy that will destroy/consume it.we see Nihilus as the greater menace and the one that explored this technique more than others, but this doesn't imply that other ones doesn't know it or will not become as Nihilus with time. so, another reason she had to die is that by herself she was a menace to the galaxy, when Kreia "is happy" because the exile stopped the siths she is speaking even about herself.

"It may be whatever pain he experienced in the past was so great, that the technique he used to recover from it... and sustain himself... also gives him an incredibly high pain threshold."

--HK-47, talking about Sion

as i have said, it is suggested that Sion used his own ability to survive the MSG, not Nihilus'. Kreia does say that Nihilus taught that to those who chase the Exile, and that what he does is simply the pinnacle of what they could achieve but Nihilus himself learned how only after the MSG (as it is something you have to endure in order to learn). because he learned from the Exile how to bond with others, he too was wounded on Malachor (supposedly he was bound to a number of jedi who died there) but he used that ability (touched by the dark side) to feed on others and survive (hence the "died and reborn" metaphore.) Kreia says that all of the Sith Lords are a threat for a reason though, Sion's technique draws from pain and he must forever inflict his pain on others as he says in Trayus Accademy, these are the teachings they learned in that place.

"One bathes in pain, feeds on it for sustenance."

--Kreia

Nihilus (and other sith lords too) learnt from the exile to create connections... when? where?

it is quite possible that Nihilus (like many others) knew the Exile, yes, even so Nihilus was the only one who harnessed that ability.

this imply that if Nihilus is an hole in the force, he is an hole because of the exile. now i'm not saying that the Exile consciously used that technique on Nihilus, my theory is that when the exile cut her bound with the force and the force was wounded by it... even the people "near" the exile, who had the strongest bounds with her, suffered from this loss and where wounded too... this apply to Nihilus but in a minor part even for Sion.

Nihilus became a hole in the Force because he harnessed the Exile's ability with the teachings of Trayus Accademy (as it is said that he learned his hunger in that place), in time he kept using it to become more and more powerful until he became a slave to it, only then he became something figuratively resembling a black hole in the Force threatening to draw all life into it. Sion is spoken of as something else, nonetheless to be stopped.

with a female, canonic, exile... i'd say he love her

yes, i liked that little thing between Sion and the Exile, indeed, it is possible he knew her, or maybe he thought to know her as he chased her, difficult to say.

and also Kreia know the exile even before they meet

it is something i strongly believe though it remains in the realm of speculations (as does most we've been talking about.)

[Zilod]

about jedi masters/atris and the exile

 

Jedi masters had no clue about the exile, every jedi master

 

they don't understand the exile when they "judge"/exile her and they don't understand her when they meed on dant academy.

 

they can't undestand the absence of the force in her and they fear her, they fear to become as her.

 

they say they can't live near the Exile and they try to destroy her.

 

 

 

is interesting to see how Visas (who is "super partes") liquidate all the jedi masters in 1 sentence... (something like)

 

"they saw in you the death of the force, i see the hope for the livings"

 

this is a key discussion as it point out what is right and what is not... is not Kreia, that can be misunderstood, is Visas who judge the jedi masters.

 

all they see in the exile is the death of the force, and this is valid even for Atris, she can't think of a life whitout the force.

 

so when Atris tells "she seeks the death of the galaxy... and so on..." she is wrong, Kreia want to save the galaxy from Nihilus (she tells that a lot of time, when she speak about Nihilus, about the 3 sith lords, and in the end at malachor).

 

the fact that Atris thinks that Kreia want to destroy the galaxy simply prove how she can't understand Kreia motivations and intents.

 

 

about the duel between Kreia and the Exile

 

is not that killing Kreia will be an example, to kill her is simply necessary and kreia knows that.

 

as said there are some (possible) motivations

 

- Kreia is a menace for the galaxy as much as other sith lords, she need to be stopped for the galaxy to survive (and Kreia doesn't want to destroy the galay) as said she always consider the 3 siths as a single threat, all have to be destroyed

 

- the Exile have to demonstrate she is stronger than Kreia, during the game the Exile grew in power and knowledge under Kreia teachings, and this is the final test, is her ritual of initiation... have to prove she became what she was supposed to be and the hope for the galaxy.

 

- Kreia is the probably the only person able to influence the Exile, as long as she lives the Exile can't be really free from the force.

 

 

in this light the stance "The apprentice must kill the Master - if you do not, I will kill you. If I do not, then all you have achieved will be as nothing, as empty, and as violent as Malachor itself."

 

makes a lot of sense... if the Exile will not win, and even if Kreia will spare her... the path, the enlightment will be useless... the Exile will have not the strenght to cover her role and to be an example for the galaxy, nor she will be totally free from the force...

all the fights, all the deaths will be useless and in this light i think we should read " all you have achieved will be as nothing, as empty, and as violent as Malachor itself"

 

 

about the bond and the wound

what makes the Exile so important is not her ability to connect with others... Kreia herself explain what makes the Exile so important....

 

in the end when you ask "why me?", she tells that she chose the Exile because she was the only jedi that chose cut her connection with the force, in a way so brutal that it caused a wound in the force.

 

the wound is alredy there, the echoes are alredy there... was that severed connection that caused the wound. Kreia is never much interested by the Exile bond skills.

 

also i think you misunderstood what Zaz said about severing the connection between 2 people... he tells that the connection will still be active but will be empty, a wound.

now he doesn't tell this is wound in the force, but a wound for the one who had that connection.

 

this is also what happened for the exile and the force, but if Kreia or the Exile will cut that connection (with death) the other will be "wounded" as her connection will be empty and not the force itself.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Zilod

[Zilod]

about the 3 sith lords and the technique

 

Nihilus is the pinnacle of that techinque, but every sith know it... even the crappiest sith assassin...

 

when the Exile and Kreia speak about the sith assassins, the old woman describe that technique and that they feed on the force.

 

so is obvious that all the 3 sith lords know it and experienced it in first person, and there are example that even Sion and Kreia knows and use it.

 

for Kreia is very evident, when she kills the 3 jedi masters on dant, their bodies are an hole in the force, pratically same as Nihilus have done on the miraluka planet.

 

 

for Sion even the reference of the pain he use to sustain himself can refer to this techinque... when the bonds, in particular between master and apprentice, are described it is said that master and apprentice share feelings using these connections... so in the end, it really seem just another aspect of this tech.

 

 

for these reasons we can say that all the 3 sith lords use this tech in a different way, this still makes all of them a threat for the galaxy in Kreia eyes.

 

also we can't really say if with time even Sion or Kreia could be totally corrupted by this tech and become like Nihil.

 

 

about Nihil and Sion history

Nihil can't become an hole on the force for the Exile+academy teachings... he became an hole in the force because he was drained and was not his choice.

 

remember that Kreia say that the Exile is the only one who chose to cut her her connection with the force, so Nihil had to be drained by someone.

 

again the only one was the Exile on Malachor.

 

also is not that every jedi who where on/near Malachor died... Malachor was a weapon used by Revan to convert the jedi not to kill them...

 

Kreia explain that on dant academy, the screams of dieing jedi/soldiers on malachor was so high that jedi where forced to chose to embrace the dark side or to die. (the Exile was the only one who "resolved the problem" in a different way)

 

so when i say that Nihilus was on malachor i don't imply that he was about to die and feeded on the other to survive, i just say that he was present and was probably drained in some way (probably because of a strong connection with the exile)

 

for Sion instead i think he actually crashed on the planet and stript from the force (as nihilus) used his pain to survive. (as also seem to point the HK stance)

 

and also the important thing here is not the tech itself, but the fact that the Exile taught something to these sith lords... it was only possible on malachor or before it, so they had to be jedi (or at least soldiers of the republic).

 

this is the only way they had a chance to experience the connection of the exile (and i'd add the draining).

 

 

 

for Kreia there is much speculation, i will not say here that she can be master Kae, just that as she was the "archivist" of a jedi academy (probably dant), the first teacher of Revan and generally an important jedi... the Exile had to know her.

 

it seem that Atris and Kreia know each other quite well, the Exile and Atris where close friends... the Exile had at least to know who Kreia was, i don't say they had to be friends... but at least to know her.

 

also Kreia was probably not drained on malachor in first place so it can indicate she was not close to the Exile at that time. (and if she was present on malachor as is suggested)

[Knights&Darths]

we seem to be deadlocked, i do not agree with much you've been saying but it's not important. now i find myself wondering if it would have been a good thing if they had it all layed bare, without mistery, unchallenging. for business i guess, it would have, but this way it's so much more intriguing, stimulating and open to debate, even as we drown in assumptions.

[Zilod]

I totally agree, a thing really good of this game is that there are many many hints and everything is not banalized by tons of explanations that hurt the intelligence of players. (as also many movies tend to do lately)

 

more you play, more you discuss it and more you will know the game and make your ideas and theories... even if we don't agree on points this doesn't mean its a sterile discussion, we try to build a story behind it and to solve various "problems" we encounter and the confrontation help to raise new problems and to see another point of view.

 

pesonally some assumptions i made, changed a bit (or a lot) during time, and this thanks to sharing opinions and ideas about the game.

 

also TSL is a very rich game, full of things that can make us think, not just about the game itself, but about the RL in general with many interesting and sometimes controversal ideas...

i find it more like a good book or a good movie than a game, something that can bring something to the reader.