Who Kriea actually could be?

[Jedi Master Dakari]

No. What Mical says is this:

 

Disciple: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had.And such teachings and their teachers is why I harbor doubts, why I wonder if something is missing from the Jedi code."

 

 

It is very peculiar that I have played this game countless, upon countless, times and I have yet to ever see this bit of dialogue from Mical. Where did you find this?

Edited January 23, 2006 by Jedi Master Dakari

[Jediphile]

No. What Mical says is this:

 

Disciple: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had.And such teachings and their teachers is why I harbor doubts, why I wonder if something is missing from the Jedi code."

 

 

It is very peculiar that I have played this game countless, upon countless, times and I have yet to ever see this bit of dialogue from Mical. Where did you find this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The above is cut and pasted directly from dialog.tlk file, but I do believe I've heard it in-game as well. But like several other characters (Mira, for example), Disciple has a few comments that are associated with bugs and which you therefore get to hear only if certain things happen at just the right time during the game. If memory serves correctly, this comment is heard only if you pass the very first influence check with him when you ask about his past. I could be mistaken, though. Can anyone confirm or deny?

[Darth_Onivega]

i will shed some light on this:

 

Kreia was exiled because she was the FIRST trainer of Revan and when he fell to the darkside they blamed kreia for all the other jedi who fell to the darkside aswell.

And the name thing, Kreia is her original name before the Mandalorian and Jedi wars, after the Mandalorian wars she was exiled and she wanderd to Malachor, she found the Trayus academy and embraced the Sith teachings there. she then found Sion and Nihilus there and trained them, then they betrayed her and exiled her from the Sith. She was than called darth traya during the 2 dark lords' training.

 

Arren Kae was exiled because she gave birth to the Handmaiden. after her exile she joined Revan during the Mandalorian Wars, in which she died.

 

And the reason Kreia knew Arren Kae is because Kreia was exiled AFTER the war and Kae was exiled DURING.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Pardon me if I don't thinkyou are correct. And also pardon me for not believing content not in the game.

 

I saw a comment the other day where a guy said that in the cut content "that was made Canon" WHAT??? It's CUT. IT CANNOT BE CANON, IT WAS CUT. IT NEVER HAPPENED.

 

Moving on, Kriea claims to be Revan's first master. Other sources in the game Claim Arren Kae to be his first. The two sources cannot be reconciled unless Kriea = Kae.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kreia says that Kae went to join in the Mandalorian Wars, so your Kreia=Kae thing is impossible due to the fact that Kreia did not fight in the war

[Jediphile]

Kreia says that Kae went to join in the Mandalorian Wars, so your Kreia=Kae thing is impossible due to the fact that Kreia did not fight in the war

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, but she did. Remember how the masters respond when she joins your meeting with them on Dantooine.

 

Kavar: "I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars..."

 

Kreia: "Die? No - became stronger, yes."

 

Vrook: "Is this your new Master, exile? If so, then you follow Revan's path. Her teachings will cause you to fall as surely as he did.We sought to lure the Sith out... and now they have come to us."

 

 

If you want to doubt what SSgtSniper says above, then you're better off questioning the comment that sources in the game claim that Kae was Revan's first master, as I don't think it actually ever says - it just says that Revan was her padawan and never discounts the possibility that she may have been his/her first master.

 

But there is no doubt Kreia fought in the war - the masters know she did, and she doesn't deny it - she even confirms it.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Jediphile

[SSgtSniper]

Jediphile, I do my biggest leap of faith there, I'll be honest. But in every source (other than Kriea) Kae is mentioned as the farthest one back. The inference I get from that is she likely was the first, since if you think about it, most people remember the beginnings of a thing, and the ending, but details in the middle tend to get fuzzy. But although the inference is there, I cannot say that the statement is there. That is true. Which is exactly why this debate continues.......

 

Whomever said Obsidian should release a timeline of events, in order to clarify seemingly conflicting accounts, was on to something.

Edited January 24, 2006 by SSgtSniper

[Jediphile]

Jediphile, I do my biggest leap of faith there, I'll be honest. But in every source (other than Kriea) Kae is mentioned as the farthest one back. The inference I get from that is she likely was the first, since if you think about it, most people remember the beginnings of a thing, and the ending, but details in the middle tend to get fuzzy. But although the inference is there, I cannot say that the statement is there. That is true. Which is exactly why this debate continues.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, exactly. And note that I agree with your position, since I too think that Kreia is Kae. I mean, just think Kae + Traya = Kraya = Kreia. Sounds very compelling to me. But while I agree, we have to accept that we can only argue for the position - it must be an informed argument, and since there is no absolute proof that Kreia is Kae, then we must accept that Kreia being Kae is merely conjecture and cannot be anything else. If not, we cannot demand the same standard from those who argue against that position.

 

Yes, except for Kreia saying that she was Revan's master (and probably the first given the references to "returning to his first master"-comments), Kae is indeed the master the furthest back that we hear of. It supports the idea that Kreia is Kae, but that's all it does...

 

Whomever said Obsidian should release a timeline of events, in order to clarify seemingly conflicting accounts, was on to something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh please no - don't reveal Kreia's secrets - this is too much fun...

[SSgtSniper]

Jediphile, I do my biggest leap of faith there, I'll be honest. But in every source (other than Kriea) Kae is mentioned as the farthest one back. The inference I get from that is she likely was the first, since if you think about it, most people remember the beginnings of a thing, and the ending, but details in the middle tend to get fuzzy. But although the inference is there, I cannot say that the statement is there. That is true. Which is exactly why this debate continues.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, exactly. And note that I agree with your position, since I too think that Kreia is Kae. I mean, just think Kae + Traya = Kraya = Kreia. Sounds very compelling to me. But while I agree, we have to accept that we can only argue for the position - it must be an informed argument, and since there is no absolute proof that Kreia is Kae, then we must accept that Kreia being Kae is merely conjecture and cannot be anything else. If not, we cannot demand the same standard from those who argue against that position.

 

Yes, except for Kreia saying that she was Revan's master (and probably the first given the references to "returning to his first master"-comments), Kae is indeed the master the furthest back that we hear of. It supports the idea that Kreia is Kae, but that's all it does...

 

Whomever said Obsidian should release a timeline of events, in order to clarify seemingly conflicting accounts, was on to something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh please no - don't reveal Kreia's secrets - this is too much fun...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh, you misunderstand. I don't think a timeline would settle it. However, it might very well indeed make it even more muddy, especially if it's just a year by year.

Edited January 24, 2006 by SSgtSniper

[Guest The Architect]

I still think Darth Traya/Kreia is Arren Kae because everyone assumed that Arren Kae died in the Mandalorian Wars but they never recovered her body so there is no proof that she did die. And if the Exile is a LS Master Kavar says to Kreia 'I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars?". There are just way too many things that make me suspicious, I mean, true coincedences are rare, as Kreia puts it.

[Jediphile]

I still think Darth Traya/Kreia is Arren Kae because everyone assumed that Arren Kae died in the Mandalorian Wars but they never recovered her body so there is no proof that she did die. And if the Exile is a LS Master Kavar says to Kreia 'I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars?". There are just way too many things that make me suspicious, I mean, true coincedences are rare, as Kreia puts it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, I agree that Kreia is indeed Kae for that reason. Or as Garak would put it, "I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences!" <_<

 

Still, it's not proof, just circumstantial evidence. What really convinces me more than anything is how the "Kreia is NOT Kae"-crowd refuse to even consider those observations even if we admit that it's not proof. That reaction suggests to me that people disagree mainly because they don't like the idea of evil-old-hag Kreia being nice-innocent-little Handmaiden's mother, which really isn't an argument at all - the truth is rarely pretty.

Edited January 27, 2006 by Jediphile

[Darth_Lord_Ibbe]

I've always wondered what the hell Kreia is talking about when you have Mical in the party. You know, the whole "You know who I am, bla, bla, bla"-stuff you see when you enter the Ebon Hawk. And then Kreia makes him forget everthing. I never understood that, 'cause I never did read this line:

 

 

Disciple: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had.And such teachings and their teachers is why I harbor doubts, why I wonder if something is missing from the Jedi code."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The plot thickens! Did the Diciple know, for a fact, that Arren Kae was Revan's first Master? But he just forgot it, thanks to Kreia? And why would Kreia do such a thing (eh, besides the fact that she probably just likes to use her powers)?

 

The plot thickens. Can Kreia actually be Arren Kae?

[Jediphile]

The plot thickens! Did the Diciple know, for a fact, that Arren Kae was Revan's first Master? But he just forgot it, thanks to Kreia? And why would Kreia do such a thing (eh, besides the fact that she probably just likes to use her powers)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mical was a hopeful padawan (youngling?) at the time, so he certainly would have first hand experience of what was going on in the jedi circles at the very time when Kreia was exiled, so the chances are good that he would be able to tell the Exile things that Kreia doesn't want the Exile to know about. Of course, we could then argue that the Exile should remember himself, but then there are indications that the Exile's memory is also compromised by Kreia's manipulation - I always wondered when she said that she didn't alter my memory, but that I wouldn't know if she had... Besides, the Exile left the jedi order with Revan, leaving Mical behind, so Mical would have been there to experience some things that the Exile didn't, especially when you consider that Mical has since been studying jedi history for the Republic. He may have found out far more than Kreia would have liked him to.

 

The plot thickens. Can Kreia actually be Arren Kae?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are several factors that suggest this is the case, and none of the nay-sayers have been able to conclusively prove that she is not - and let me assure that it's not for a lack of trying!

[Darth_Onivega]

Kreia says that Revan came to her to learn how he could leave the Order. And there are some sources (though i dont remember) that say that Kae was killed during the war. And when Kavar says they thought she died during the war, he didnt mean she was in the war, he meant they thought her death was during the time period of the Mandalorian Wars

[DarthVala]

Or he could've ment "Kae" was killed. And Kreia was what was formed. Not a Jedi, but one, who through exerience, decided to become like Jolee, to "see both sides of the coin", if you will.

[Jediphile]

Kreia says that Revan came to her to learn how he could leave the Order. And there are some sources (though i dont remember) that say that Kae was killed during the war. And when Kavar says they thought she died during the war, he didnt mean she was in the war, he meant they thought her death was during the time period of the Mandalorian Wars

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kae was thought to have died, but strangely her body was never recovered. Isn't it rather odd that they found her robes (which Handmaiden wears) but not her body? Unless, of course, she abandoned her jedi robes for some reason...

 

As for Kavar, what was actually said was this:

 

Kavar: "I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars..."

 

Kreia: "Die? No - became stronger, yes."

 

Open to interpretation, but to me "in" means "participating in the war" more than "duirng the time of the war", since if it had been the latter, Kavar would simply have said, "I though you had during the Mandalorian Wars..."

 

Besides, if Kreia is Kae, it ties very nicely how she fought in the war and then found the Trayus Academy once it was over, doesn't it? Sure, you could argue that Kae died and Kreia arrived on Malachor V shortly after to find the academy, but that's a pretty big coincidence...

[Zelean]

Open to interpretation, but to me "in" means "participating in the war" more than "duirng the time of the war", since if it had been the latter, Kavar would simply have said, "I though you had during the Mandalorian Wars..."

 

Besides, if Kreia is Kae, it ties very nicely how she fought in the war and then found the Trayus Academy once it was over, doesn't it? Sure, you could argue that Kae died and Kreia arrived on Malachor V shortly after to find the academy, but that's a pretty big coincidence...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Frankly, I never liked the idea that Kreia participated in the Mandalorian Wars at all. I mean why would she

[DeathScepter]

Kreia Left on her own for she was disgusted with the Jedi Council.

[Jediphile]

I suppose we agree the "source" was Kreia.

If she "intended no harm" why exile her? Did she leave on her own? Or was there another reason (baby child leaps to mind, here) that led to her exile?

Anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, I would agree that the "source" was Kreia.

 

I guess Kreia (whehter she is Kae or not) was exiled because even though she may have intended no harm, her teachings still violated the code and corrupted the younger jedi in the order and the masters would allow that to continue.

 

Now, one reason why I do think Kreia is Kae is that I don't believe the reason that is mentioned for her exile, and which we learn from Kreia... Note that we never hear Disciple (or even Handmaiden) mention that Kae was exiled. Kreia tells us that the reason for Kae's exile was her child, but that seems very harsh compared to backgrounds of jedi like Jolee (who was married and trained her wife against the order of the jedi and then allowed her to fall to the dark side) or Nomi Sunrider, who also had a child and yet is counted among the greatest and most honorable jedi of her time.

[Zelean]

Kreia Left on her own for she was disgusted with the Jedi Council.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't get the feeling her past was resolved.

 

Too much talk of 'I will make them see I was right' and all. As if she wanted to belong, yet couldn't.

[Zelean]

Yes, I would agree that the "source" was Kreia.

 

I guess Kreia (whehter she is Kae or not) was exiled because even though she may have intended no harm, her teachings still violated the code and corrupted the younger jedi in the order and the masters would allow that to continue.

 

Now, one reason why I do think Kreia is Kae is that I don't believe the reason that is mentioned for her exile, and which we learn from Kreia... Note that we never hear Disciple (or even Handmaiden) mention that Kae was exiled. Kreia tells us that the reason for Kae's exile was her child, but that seems very harsh compared to backgrounds of jedi like Jolee (who was married and trained her wife against the order of the jedi and then allowed her to fall to the dark side) or Nomi Sunrider, who also had a child and yet is counted among the greatest and most honorable jedi of her time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kavarr does say: "The choice of one was the choice of us all." I don't think she corrupted any of her students. I do imagine she was a very liberal mentor, though.

 

Then at some point (after Revan incident, I believe) she came about with her belief on the 'evil' Force. Now, that must have been upsetting for the council.

'We need to shut her up quickly now

[jeffareid]

I kept expecting this dialog:

 

Light Side Male Exile to Kreia, "you killed my mother!"

 

Kreia to Exile "No, I am your mother".

Edited January 28, 2006 by jeffareid

[Jediphile]

I kept expecting this dialog:

 

Light Side Male Exile to Kreia, "you killed my mother!"

 

Kreia to Exile "No, I am your mother".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I expected:

 

Handmaiden: "You knew my mother?!?"

 

Kreia: "No, Brianna. I am your mother!"

 

Handmaiden: "NOOOooooooo!!!" [jumps into conveniently nearby bottomless pit...]

 

:D

[Darth_Onivega]

Kreia: i like pudding

Atton: i like pudding

Bao-Dur: i like pudding

Sion: i like pudding

Exile: i like pudding

HK-47: Statement: i like pudding, Master

Nihilus: i like pudding

Visas: i like pudding, mi'lord

Handmaiden: i like pudding

Mira: i like pudding

Hanharr: i like pudding

Mandalore: i like pudding

T3-M4: i like pudding

Disciple: i like masturb- er i mean pudding

Vaklu: i like pudding

Talia: i like pudding

Zez-Kai-Ell: i like pudding

Vrook: i like pudding

Kavar: i like pudding

Azkul: i like pudding

Terena: i like pudding

Dopak: i like pudding

Zeron: i like pudding

Revan: i like pudding

Bastila: im a hermapha-wait this isnt the confessional

Carth: I r gay

Jolee: i like pudding

Juhani: i like pudding

Canderous: i like pudding

Mission: i like pudding

Zaalbar: i like pudding

Malak: i like pudding

Bandon: i like pudding

Carath: i like pudding

The One: i like pudding

Elder: i like pudding

Uthar Vynn: i like pudding

Zhar: i like crack

Vandar: i like heroine

Dorak: i like pudding

Trask: i like pudding

Edited January 29, 2006 by Darth_Onivega

[SSgtSniper]

You mean,

 

HK-47: Statement: i like pudding, Master

[DeathScepter]

Calling Kreia Kae is like calling the Pc of Kotor 1 Revan without the Revelation Scene saying that PC of Kotor 1 is Revan.

 

 

Btw Nomi SunRider had her child before she enter the Jedi Order.

 

Btw Her Jedi Master felt it was important for her to take her husband's place within the Jedi Order.

 

That is why he trained her.

[Zelean]

Calling Kreia Kae is like calling the Pc of Kotor 1 Revan without the Revelation Scene saying that PC of Kotor 1 is Revan.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Excellent! And I thought you disagree.