Oblivion megamovie

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I think they're doing what they should do.  Stick with a proven medium, advance the compression techniques, and push the games.  Going with Blu-Ray would be silly, since there is a chance Blu-Ray will fail.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm really glad Sony dosnt share that attitude or we would all be watching the star wars trilogy on 40 disks

 

Just to reiterate, DVD was second choice for the 360 because HDDVD wasnt ready in time. So your getting obsolete tech just so MS can get the 360 out earlier.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

If DVD was realy obsolete tech then all computers would have DVD-ROM drives.  That is not the case however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well look at it this way.

 

The PS had a CD at the end of the PS's lifespan you were getting games on 4 disks.

 

Along comes PS2 and you have DvD now towards the end of the PS lifespan your getting games on two disks.

 

PS3 along comes blu ray now this is where it gets interesting. At the time of CD no one could really see a time when you would need 4 disks for a game, but in 5 years you did. No no one can see you needing more than one blu ray right now (since they are huge) but if the pattern continues that will be the case by the time the PS4 rolls around.

 

Like hell I'm going to be greatful to MS just for covering their own arse, but then I'm not a Epiphany.

 

The idea that people are running two disk games before a console is even released I find laughable. Plus you know what is really going to happen, your going to get smaller games to save on space, because the alternative increases the cost of development and anything that wont fit in a standard DVD case (thats not even taking into account the chance of scratching) will cost even more.

 

So like I said excuse me If I dont feel in the slightest bit greatful to MS for giving me a substandard machine just to cover their own arse.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Then why are there games like Oblivion, which are quite large, that can fight on one disc.  Does that just mean that the US developers are better in disc compression than their japanesse counterparts?

 

I have seenthe graphics of Enchant Arm and Oblivion, and while Enchant Arm looks way too cartoony for my tastes they are comparable.  Maybe theyshould use less FMV, a more efficient engine, better compression, and make the game smarter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because if Oblivion is anything like Morrowind it will be large but empty. You wouldnt get away with that in JRPG because the Japanese are all about content and characters. So it's really about having a game where you can have people walking around looking at the same stuff for hours on end, rather than any sort of technical skill.

 

It remains to be seen just how well Oblivion will adapt without a HD too.

Edited October 10, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Kaftan Barlast]

Will Fallout 3 have the same gameplay?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

Well... you are what you is, you is what you am and a cow dont make ham

 

 

 

(so, yes, it probably will)

[SubBassman]

"Well... you are what you is, you is what you am and a cow dont make ham "

 

 

Mr. Zappa knew the ropes.

[Epiphany]

Then why are there games like Oblivion, which are quite large, that can fight on one disc.  Does that just mean that the US developers are better in disc compression than their japanesse counterparts?

 

I have seenthe graphics of Enchant Arm and Oblivion, and while Enchant Arm looks way too cartoony for my tastes they are comparable.  Maybe theyshould use less FMV, a more efficient engine, better compression, and make the game smarter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Eastern developers don't really have the technical motivation to build ground breaking engines. That's why most of their games rely heavily on FMV sequences to advance the story. Doing so, requires a massive amount of disc space, and the volume it occupies simply goes up once it's rendered in HD.

 

It confuses me as to why they're still pushing pre-rendered cutscenes, since there is no visual difference between the two anymore. Anyone that's looked at the Final Fantasy 7 tech demo for the PS3, Oblivion, Gears of War, or MGS4 can see that next gen graphics have evolved to a state that FMV is no longer required, or more so, it no longer serves a purpose.

 

Because if Oblivion is anything like Morrowind it will be large but empty. You wouldnt get away with that in JRPG because the Japanese are all about content and characters. So it's really about having a game where you can have people walking around looking at the same stuff for hours on end, rather than any sort of technical skill.

 

It remains to be seen just how well Oblivion will adapt without a HD too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was sure you couldn't get any worse regarding your knowledge of Oblivion, but amazing enough, you continue prove me wrong.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Anyone that's looked at the Final Fantasy 7 tech demo for the PS3, Oblivion, Gears of War, or MGS4 can see that next gen graphics have evolved to a state that FMV is no longer required, or more so, it no longer serves a purpose."

 

Maybe if you're blind.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

"Anyone that's looked at the Final Fantasy 7 tech demo for the PS3, Oblivion, Gears of War, or MGS4 can see that next gen graphics have evolved to a state that FMV is no longer required, or more so, it no longer serves a purpose."

 

Maybe if you're blind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree, but it goes beyond that too. Programmers are not good directors. You look at some of the in engine scenes in KOTOR and Jade Empire and they are , well, wooden for want of a better word.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"I agree, but it goes beyond that too. Programmers are not good directors. You look at some of the in engine scenes in KOTOR and Jade Empire and they are , well, wooden for want of a better word."

 

Very true. Then again, that is not true for, say, Metal Gear Solids. So, that might just be a flaw with KOTOR and Jade Empire.

[Epiphany]

"Anyone that's looked at the Final Fantasy 7 tech demo for the PS3, Oblivion, Gears of War, or MGS4 can see that next gen graphics have evolved to a state that FMV is no longer required, or more so, it no longer serves a purpose."

 

Maybe if you're blind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Show me FMV that looks graphically better than those games.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

"I agree, but it goes beyond that too. Programmers are not good directors. You look at some of the in engine scenes in KOTOR and Jade Empire and they are , well, wooden for want of a better word."

 

Very true. Then again, that is not true for, say, Metal Gear Solids. So, that might just be a flaw with KOTOR and Jade Empire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You could have a point there. But MGS is kinda special.

[Calax]

Cheers for MGS!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Cheers for MGS!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can't wait for geriatric Snake to roll out.

[Calax]

Cheers for MGS!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can't wait for geriatric Snake to roll out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Must.... subdue.... desire... to... post.... VGCats... again!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Cheers for MGS!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can't wait for geriatric Snake to roll out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Must.... subdue.... desire... to... post.... VGCats... again!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Please do , it was great.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Show me FMV that looks graphically better than those games."

 

Dawn of War intro, WarCraft III cutscenes.

 

Yay, I win.

[Calax]

[Epiphany]

"Show me FMV that looks graphically better than those games."

 

Dawn of War intro, WarCraft III cutscenes.

 

Yay, I win.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

WC3 intro easily beat/matched by many next gen games. Never seen Dawn of War.

 

You don't win, next.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

But do they add anything significantly to the game?  Nope.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To the gameplay , no but to the game experience what they add is a realism that you can then take into the game with you.

 

Look at it like this, you see the intro to Dawn of War , which is a fantasic representation of what WH40K combat is like and then when you get your little game pieces and battles which are nothing like that you mind transposes that onto them. Without that you would be left with an ok game, but with the cinematic additions you have a game that exudes warhammer from every fibre of it's being.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"But do they add anything significantly to the game? Nope."

 

Actually, at least in WarCraft III, they did. They were a reward for completing a campaign in it, and very good ones at that.

 

But that has nothing to do with what I was arguing.

 

"WC3 intro easily beat/matched by many next gen games."

 

Oh, I guess it's a bloody good thing that I didn't say "WC3 intro", I said "WarCraft III cutscenes".

Edited October 10, 2005 by Sarjahurmaaja.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Something else just occured to me concerning the KOTOR games. It's the fact that there are movies which make them so popular. People transpose the movies to the games. Of course not every game can have it's own series, but cutscenes and good FMV perform the same function albeit less effectively than 9 hours of movie could :D

[Azarkon]

Something else just occured to me concerning the KOTOR games. It's the fact that there are movies which make them so popular. People transpose the movies to the games. Of course not every game can have it's own series, but cutscenes and good FMV perform the same function albeit less effectively than 9 hours of movie could :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As opposed to something like Magic: the Gathering or D&D? Surely you're not suggesting that the popularity of a brand is based on the presence of cinematics. If anything, such a transposition is an imposition on the developers. If you make a D&D game, no one's going to blame you if you don't have FMV's - they are far more concerned about the rules. But if you make a Star Wars game and it doesn't have any familiar cinematic scenes, you may very well be chastised, since that's what people enjoy about that brand.

 

As far as FMVs vs. in-game cutscenes go, I think the trend is to go for the latter. FMVs are expensive and they are inflexible because the rendering time of a FMV can take weeks and is not something that you can change later down the line or add alot of. Thus most companies opt for a few FMVs and attempt to tell the rest of the story via cutscenes. This is only going to become more the case as time goes on and more advances are made in graphics technology. Hell, Oblivion is a perfect example of this: why would you opt for FMVs when you can do something 60-70% as good with the in-game engine?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

As opposed to something like Magic: the Gathering or D&D? Surely you're not suggesting that the popularity of a brand is based on the presence of cinematics.  If anything, such a transposition is an imposition on the developers.  If you make a D&D game, no one's going to blame you if you don't have FMV's - they are far more concerned about the rules.  But if you make a Star Wars game and it doesn't have any familiar cinematic scenes, you may very well be chastised, since that's what people enjoy about that brand.

 

As far as FMVs vs. in-game cutscenes go, I think the trend is to go for the latter.  FMVs are expensive and they are inflexible because the rendering time of a FMV can take weeks and is not something that you can change later down the line or add alot of.  Thus most companies opt for a few FMVs and attempt to tell the rest of the story via cutscenes.  This is only going to become more the case as time goes on and more advances are made in graphics technology.  Hell, Oblivion is a perfect example of this: why would you opt for FMVs when you can do something 60-70% as good with the in-game engine?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The popularity of KOTOR is based on Star Wars , to believe anything I think would naive.

 

Both Yu Gi Oh and Duel Masters have an animated spin off which is similiar.

 

Well 60-70% isnt as good so I think you answered your own question there. If you want the best you use some really great FMV and allow that to to carry the game.

Dont forget it's not just RPGs which invest heavily in kick arse FMV intro's

DOA IV's intro movie alone for example took up about a 1/5th of the disk, but boy was it a scene setter

 

I cant actually remember any of the TES characters, with the exception of the Ghost King because there just isnt much character there.

Edited October 10, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Azarkon]

The popularity of KOTOR is based on Star Wars , to believe anything I think would naive.

 

Oh I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing your implication that there's some inherent advantage to having FMVs solely because movies tend to be what makes games popular. If you're not implying that, then forget what I said.

 

Both Yu Gi Oh and Duel Masters have an animated spin off which is similiar.

 

Actually, they're quite dissimilar in the sense that it's the game that inspired the show and not the other way around (well, YGO anyhow, I don't know much about duel masters), so an argument that tries to relate a game's popularity to its relationship with cinematics fails.

 

Well 60-70% isnt as good so I think you answered your own question there.

 

Not really. There are MANY advantages to using in-game cutscenes over FMVs, and taken as a whole I think they justify using in-game over FMVs. Yes, FMVs give off the feeling that they're inherently special, but they also heavily limit how much story you can tell if your vehicle of storytelling is primarily FMVs since you'd be heavily limited by budget concerns. Thus, smart use of FMVs where it really counts and in-game cutscenes everywhere else is probably the best expenditure of "zots". I'm sure certain Japanese companies disagree judging on the number of hours of FMVs they produce, but there's a reason why FF7 remains one of the most popular FF-series games in terms of storyline & character despite telling the vast majority of its story without FMVs.

 

A simple comparison of the character development that occurs between FF7 and FF: Advent Children will prove my point. If FF: Advent Children occured without the context of FF7 none of its characters would be memorable whatsoever. It's because of FF7 that AC's eye candy actually has weight, and FF7 did not depend (nor did FF6 or 4, the two other beloved FF games) on FMVs to tell its story whatsoever.

 

I cant actually remember any of the TES characters, with the exception of the Ghost King because there just isnt much character there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Indeed TES NPCs suck, but that has more to do with their crappy design than the lack of FMVs. There are tons of people out there who are infatuated with BG/BGII/KOTOR characters, and none of those characters were exposed through FMVs, so that there is a testament to why FMVs are not vital to the creation of great stories and characters.

[mkreku]

Daggerfall had an awesome intro full motion video! It's a TES game too

 

Edit: I spell like crap.

Edited October 10, 2005 by mkreku